Five Founding Fathers Who Would Be Rejected by the Religious Right Today

[JakeStarkey]

The Constitution did not interfere with the several state sanctioned religions in the states.

Maine was the final state to end government religion (1820).

If Utah wanted to make Mormonism the state religion today or Maryland endorsed the Roman Catholic sect, the Constitution as written would permit it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You people don't really understand what a theocracy is or that the 1st Amendment allowed for state established religions, none of which were actual theocracies.

Holly s•••!! Do you seriously believe that? Even Rick Santorum most likely does not believe that. That is over the top ridiculous!!

I don't know this for certain, but it seems to me that the authors of the Constitution intended to allow communities, up to the state-scale, to be organized along religious lines; one community, for example, might be established as a Quaker community, and allowed to enact laws and policies consistent with the Quaker religion. Another community might, likewise, be Puritan, and another Catholic, and so on. The First Amendment, unlike the others in the Bill of Rights, starts with “Congress shall make no law…”, suggesting that it was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not state or lower governments. There is, in fact, a widely-held assumption (with which I do not agree) that the entire Bill of Rights was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not lower levels, and that it is only by incorporation under the Fourteenth Amendment that it now applies to states and lower levels.

 

[boedicca]

Two Prominent Democrats who could never get elected based on their policy positions today:

1. John F. Kennedy
2. Bill Clinton

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Constitution did not interfere with the several state sanctioned religions in the states.

Maine was the final state to end government religion (1820).

If Utah wanted to make Mormonism the state religion today or Maryland endorsed the Roman Catholic sect, the Constitution as written would permit it.

whoever is posting for Jake...gj!!

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the Americans that fought the revolutionary war were the least religious people as possible during that time on planet Earth ... knowing full well the fallacies and forgeries of all three desert religions and the uniqueness their struggle would provide for a truly unhindered religious experience.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You people don't really understand what a theocracy is or that the 1st Amendment allowed for state established religions, none of which were actual theocracies.

Holly s•••!! Do you seriously believe that? Even Rick Santorum most likely does not believe that. That is over the top ridiculous!!

I don't know this for certain, but it seems to me that the authors of the Constitution intended to allow communities, up to the state-scale, to be organized along religious lines; one community, for example, might be established as a Quaker community, and allowed to enact laws and policies consistent with the Quaker religion. Another community might, likewise, be Puritan, and another Catholic, and so on. The First Amendment, unlike the others in the Bill of Rights, starts with “Congress shall make no law…”, suggesting that it was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not state or lower governments. There is, in fact, a widely-held assumption (with which I do not agree) that the entire Bill of Rights was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not lower levels, and that it is only by incorporation under the Fourteenth Amendment that it now applies to states and lower levels.

The Bill of Rights, at the time, was not intended to restrict the states but only the federal government. The state power to impose a state religion was in no way stopped or even blocked or hindered.

 

[rightwinger]

Two Prominent Democrats who could never get elected based on their policy positions today:

1. John F. Kennedy
2. Bill Clinton

Nonsense

JFK was a staunch liberal supporting welfare, civil rights and healthcare
Bill Clinton would win if he ran today

 

[Uncensored2008]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

It's amazing that you Stalinist perpetrate the same lies regardless of how many times you are exposed.

George Washington a Deist? Uh, no.

{
The Faith of George Washington
Posted by Brian Alarid, With 0 Comments, Category: Leadership, Tags: America, Christianity, Faith, US Presidents, Washington
George Washington, the first President of the United States, is our nation’s greatest and most beloved leader of all time. His faith has been the subject of debate for many generations. Some have tried to portray him as a Deist, while others maintain that he was a devoted Christ-follower until the end of his life.

So was George Washington a Christian, a Deist, or an agnostic? The best way to answer that question is to examine his actions, his words, and the testimony of people who knew him.

His Actions

By his actions, Washington proved himself to be a committed Christian and churchgoer. He served for many years as a vestryman, a non-clergy member of his church’s leading body. Records from Truro Parish, an Episcopal Church, indicate that he was actively involved in helping oversee church business and was financially generous to his church.1

For more than fifteen years, he served in various voluntary leadership roles in his church. While he was President and toured the nation, he attended church services in every city he visited, sometimes as often as three times a day.2}


The Faith of George Washington

But you'll keep lying because you are a Stalinist and without a shred of integrity.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

Actually that's not too bad considering the progressive left would have placed most of the Founding Fathers up against the wall and killed them.

Perhaps you would like to explain that . That is a pretty rash assertion. I would take them all over almost any one the Republicans who are in power now or seeking power

I'll explain this, you are flat out lying to try and pervert historical fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A site titled passionchurchonline is going to propound far right pseudo-Christian nonsense, period.

Washington was Anglican, a weak Christian informed by Enlightenment thought, who refused to take Communion as an adult.

He believed in deity, somewhere between watered-down Christianity and Deism.

Madison may have been more Deist than Washington.

Jefferson was Deist, finding the mechanistic creation and operation of a universe by an impersonal God more palpable than one with miracles, virgin births, resurrections, which he considered to be "fables."

 

[boedicca]

Two Prominent Democrats who could never get elected based on their policy positions today:

1. John F. Kennedy
2. Bill Clinton

Nonsense

JFK was a staunch liberal supporting welfare, civil rights and healthcare
Bill Clinton would win if he ran today

Nonsense. JFK was a tax cutter. You Progs would skin him alive.

And considering that you are the Perv Party, Bubba could run based on that. But his smaller government/welfare reform agenda would make him a WACIST, so he'd be skinned alive as well.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

There is, in fact, a widely-held assumption (with which I do not agree) that the entire Bill of Rights was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not lower levels, and that it is only by incorporation under the Fourteenth Amendment that it now applies to states and lower levels.

The Bill of Rights, at the time, was not intended to restrict the states but only the federal government. The state power to impose a state religion was in no way stopped or even blocked or hindered.

Other than the First and Tenth Amendments, I disagree.

The First, as I stated before, begins with “Congress shall make no law…”, indicating that it is the federal government that is so constrained.

The Tenth makes mention of powers belonging to the federal government, to the states, and to the people; and its point is to state that the federal government has only those powers which the Constitution explicitly delegates thereto; all other powers being reserved to the state or to the people.

The Second, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments explicitly refer to rights belonging to the people; which would mean that even states or lower governments are forbidden from violating these rights.

The Fifth Amendment begins with “No person shall…”, and then goes on to enumerate various things that shall not be done to any person. It's a clear prohibition against all of these treatments, with nothing to suggest that any lower level of government is permitted to engage in them.

The Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh,and Eighth Amendments all refer to the judicial process. Given that under the Tenth Amendment, this process would nearly always be conducted at the state level or lower, it makes little sense for these Amendments to apply only to the federal government, which would have no part in it anyway.

 

[rightwinger]

Two Prominent Democrats who could never get elected based on their policy positions today:

1. John F. Kennedy
2. Bill Clinton

Nonsense

JFK was a staunch liberal supporting welfare, civil rights and healthcare
Bill Clinton would win if he ran today

Nonsense. JFK was a tax cutter. You Progs would skin him alive.

And considering that you are the Perv Party, Bubba could run based on that. But his smaller government/welfare reform agenda would make him a WACIST, so he'd be skinned alive as well.

You guys keep saying that

JFK cut the upper tax rate to 70 percent.
If that is conservatism, I sign up for it right now

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is, in fact, a widely-held assumption (with which I do not agree) that the entire Bill of Rights was only intended to restrict the federal government, and not lower levels, and that it is only by incorporation under the Fourteenth Amendment that it now applies to states and lower levels.

The Bill of Rights, at the time, was not intended to restrict the states but only the federal government. The state power to impose a state religion was in no way stopped or even blocked or hindered.

Other than the First and Tenth Amendments, I disagree.

The First, as I stated before, begins with “Congress shall make no law…”, indicating that it is the federal government that is so constrained.

The Tenth makes mention of powers belonging to the federal government, to the states, and to the people; and its point is to state that the federal government has only those powers which the Constitution explicitly delegates thereto; all other powers being reserved to the state or to the people.

The Second, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments explicitly refer to rights belonging to the people; which would mean that even states or lower governments are forbidden from violating these rights.

The Fifth Amendment begins with “No person shall…”, and then goes on to enumerate various things that shall not be done to any person. It's a clear prohibition against all of these treatments, with nothing to suggest that any lower level of government is permitted to engage in them.

The Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh,and Eighth Amendments all refer to the judicial process. Given that under the Tenth Amendment, this process would nearly always be conducted at the state level or lower, it makes little sense for these Amendments to apply only to the federal government, which would have no part in it anyway.

You can argue that, but you are unconvincing, I believe.

What is convincing is that we live in the modern world today, to which we adapt the Constitution, not adapt the modern world to the Constitution.

 

[boedicca]

Even Bubba realizes he couldn't be elected today, although his reason pins the bogometer.

(Monica Lewinsky could not be reached for comment).

President Clinton said, "I don't like all this. I couldn't be elected anything now 'cause I just don't like embarrassing people. My mother would have whipped me for five days in a row when I was a little boy if I spent all my time badmouthing people like this."

Bill Clinton and James Patterson co-author a political beach read

 

[JakeStarkey]

Clinton is just being the "good ol well natured southern boy" who would have clubbed Trump in the election.

2016 would have been his 7th straight victory if he could have run constitutionally.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Here is a good read that I came upon that I want to share with all, but especially those who insist that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation. I am hard pressed to imagine how that view can be reconciled with the information in this piece. All opinions are welcome

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum ( selected excerpts)

To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1. George Washington. The father of our country was nominally an Anglican but seemed more at home with Deism. The language of the Deists sounds odd to today’s ears because it’s a theological system of thought that has fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause. He set things in motion and then stepped back.

2. John Adams. The man who followed Washington in office was a Unitarian, although he was raised a Congregationalist and never officially left that church. Adams rejected belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, core concepts of Christian dogma. In his personal writings, Adams makes it clear that he considered some Christian dogma to be incomprehensible.

As president, Adams signed the famous Treaty of Tripoli, which boldly stated, “[T]he government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….”

3. Thomas Jefferson. It’s almost impossible to define Jefferson’s subtle religious views in a few words. As he once put it, “I am a sect by myself, as far as I know.” But one thing is clear: His skepticism of traditional Christianity is well established. Our third president did not believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, original sin and other core Christian doctrines. He was hostile to many conservative Christian clerics, whom he believed had perverted the teachings of that faith.

Jefferson once famously observed to Adams, “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

4. James Madison. Jefferson’s close ally would be similarly unelectable today. Madison is perhaps the most enigmatic of all the founders when it comes to religion. To this day, scholars still debate his religious views.

Madison was perhaps the strictest church-state separationist among the founders, taking stands that make the ACLU look like a bunch of pikers. He opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military. As president, Madison rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession. For the government to count the clergy, Madison said, would violate the First Amendment.

5. Thomas Paine. Paine never held elective office, but he played an important role as a pamphleteer whose stirring words helped rally Americans to independence. Washington ordered that Paine’s pamphlet “The American Crisis” be read aloud to the Continental Army as a morale booster on Dec. 23, 1776. “Common Sense” was similarly popular with the people. These seminal documents were crucial to winning over the public to the side of independence.

So Paine’s a hero, right? He was also a radical Deist whose later work, The Age of Reason, still infuriates fundamentalists.

There you have it folks!!

It's amazing that you Stalinist perpetrate the same lies regardless of how many times you are exposed.

George Washington a Deist? Uh, no.

{
The Faith of George Washington
Posted by Brian Alarid, With 0 Comments, Category: Leadership, Tags: America, Christianity, Faith, US Presidents, Washington
George Washington, the first President of the United States, is our nation’s greatest and most beloved leader of all time. His faith has been the subject of debate for many generations. Some have tried to portray him as a Deist, while others maintain that he was a devoted Christ-follower until the end of his life.

So was George Washington a Christian, a Deist, or an agnostic? The best way to answer that question is to examine his actions, his words, and the testimony of people who knew him.

His Actions

By his actions, Washington proved himself to be a committed Christian and churchgoer. He served for many years as a vestryman, a non-clergy member of his church’s leading body. Records from Truro Parish, an Episcopal Church, indicate that he was actively involved in helping oversee church business and was financially generous to his church.1

For more than fifteen years, he served in various voluntary leadership roles in his church. While he was President and toured the nation, he attended church services in every city he visited, sometimes as often as three times a day.2}


The Faith of George Washington

But you'll keep lying because you are a Stalinist and without a shred of integrity.

The main point of the OP is that the five named founders would be rejected by the religious right . You have not refuted that, nor have you proven that they were not skeptical about Christianity. And regardless of their beliefs, if they intended the country to be Cristian, it have said so in the constitution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one who reads American history carefully, studies the background of the creation of the Constitution and those of its creators, would ever think this nation was to be anything but a secular nation.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The main point of the OP is that the five named founders would be rejected by the religious right .

No, the main point is to demonstrate your hubris and ignorance, in presuming to speak for “the religious right”; as well as your general abject ignorance about the basic history of this country and its Constitution.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I don't remember Jesus telling Romans to pay thier "fair share " can you give me one instance of Jesus sounding like a state loving Progressive

Jesus never advocated tax the poor

Jesus never advocated taxing anyone.

He understood the need for government

nonsense.

Jesus understood that if people didn't learn to think for themselves and differentiate between right and wrong and good and evil they would always be confused, blind, and wouldn't know which way to turn in any given situation making them vulnerable to being governed and told what to think and do by the unscrupulous.

Nothing to do with his views on government

Alinsky, not Jesus