What's new
US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

First Pre-Crime Arrest

eagleseven

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
6,517
Reaction score
1,370
Points
48
Location
OH
Pre-Crime Policing

Allegedly “disgruntled” man has his guns seized, and “voluntarily” surrenders to two SWAT teams and dozens of police officers for a crime that hadn’t been committed

To hear them tell it, the five police agencies who apprehended 39-year-old Oregonian David Pyles early on the morning of March 8 thwarted another lone wolf mass murderer. The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers," the release said. Fortunately, Pyles "voluntarily" turned himself over to police custody, and the legally purchased firearms "were seized for safekeeping."

This voluntary exchange involved two SWAT teams, police officers from Medford and nearby Rosewood, sheriff's deputies from Jackson and Douglas counties, and the Oregon State Police. Oregon State Police Sgt. Jeff Proulx explained to South Oregon's Mail Tribune why the operation was such a success: "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach."

There's just one problem: David Pyles hadn't committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

"They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning," Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. "I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation."

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he'd need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back. On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the "disgruntled" worker's guns, and "now considers this matter closed.
And worse still, this is technically legal under the Patriot Act's "Lone Wolf" provision.

This is not the America I was born in...
 

Vanquish

Vanquisher of shills
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
2,663
Reaction score
358
Points
98
This is really bad. Really really really bad. I work for a firm that litigates police brutality cases against city governments.

While there are legitimate grounds for warrantless searches (several of them) this doesn't sound right at all. You still need probably cause or an exception like "plain view" or "exigent circumstances".
 

uscitizen

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
45,940
Reaction score
4,912
Points
48
Location
My Shack
It was bound to happen after we invaded Iraq before the crime was comitted.
 
OP
eagleseven

eagleseven

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
6,517
Reaction score
1,370
Points
48
Location
OH
This is really bad. Really really really bad. I work for a firm that litigates police brutality cases against city governments.

While there are legitimate grounds for warrantless searches (several of them) this doesn't sound right at all. You still need probably cause or an exception like "plain view" or "exigent circumstances".
Pyles is lawyering up, so he may still receive compensation.

Problem is, the Oregon Police are hiding behind the Patriot Act...
 

Vanquish

Vanquisher of shills
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
2,663
Reaction score
358
Points
98
Well I dont think you can go that far.

The UN Resolution that came out after the first gulf war (1331 or 1441, I've forgotten) set in stone that there WERE WMDs. And that they needed to be eliminated. That's the world community agreeing that they DID exist. Without proof that they were eliminated, what else were we to do?

But that's getting this thread off topic. :p


Every congressman who voted for the Patriot Act needs to be ashamed.
 

RodISHI

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
23,435
Reaction score
8,616
Points
900
Under the color of law anything can be abuse when you have a police state that fully distrust its citizens and gives credibility to the real crooks. "There ought to be a law!"
 

bodecea

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
144,538
Reaction score
19,675
Points
2,180
Location
#HasNoClothes
Pre-Crime Policing

Allegedly “disgruntled” man has his guns seized, and “voluntarily” surrenders to two SWAT teams and dozens of police officers for a crime that hadn’t been committed

To hear them tell it, the five police agencies who apprehended 39-year-old Oregonian David Pyles early on the morning of March 8 thwarted another lone wolf mass murderer. The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers," the release said. Fortunately, Pyles "voluntarily" turned himself over to police custody, and the legally purchased firearms "were seized for safekeeping."

This voluntary exchange involved two SWAT teams, police officers from Medford and nearby Rosewood, sheriff's deputies from Jackson and Douglas counties, and the Oregon State Police. Oregon State Police Sgt. Jeff Proulx explained to South Oregon's Mail Tribune why the operation was such a success: "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach."

There's just one problem: David Pyles hadn't committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

"They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning," Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. "I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation."

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he'd need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back. On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the "disgruntled" worker's guns, and "now considers this matter closed.
And worse still, this is technically legal under the Patriot Act's "Lone Wolf" provision.

This is not the America I was born in...

This is disturbing.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
222,776
Reaction score
48,549
Points
2,190
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and the guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood
 
Last edited:

slackjawed

Self deported
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
5,307
Reaction score
650
Points
153
Location
15th congressional district of Arizona
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and they guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

I don't think these two situations are simular enough to compare them.

I would be interested in your opinion how they are.

Did you support the patriot act when bush et al pushed it through, or just since 'o' renewed it?
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
222,776
Reaction score
48,549
Points
2,190
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and they guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

I don't think these two situations are simular enough to compare them.

I would be interested in your opinion how they are.

Did you support the patriot act when bush et al pushed it through, or just since 'o' renewed it?

The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers,"

The same situation as Maj Hassan......a disgruntled soldier who had been removed from his cushy job at Walter Reed. His mental status was in question from his peers. Described as very disgruntled. Recently purchased firearms, His peers openly talked about his stability
When Hassan pulled the trigger, everyone asked "How could they have missed the signs.

I did not support the "patriot act" under Bush or Obama.
 
Last edited:

Nonelitist

Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
1,235
Reaction score
183
Points
0
I want to give this more time to let details trickle out. As this story portrays it, this is disturbing, but rightwinger has a good point.. damned if you do damned if you don't.

I am betting there was a specific threat by the offender that they are acting on. I could be wrong.
 

slackjawed

Self deported
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
5,307
Reaction score
650
Points
153
Location
15th congressional district of Arizona
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and they guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

I don't think these two situations are simular enough to compare them.

I would be interested in your opinion how they are.

Did you support the patriot act when bush et al pushed it through, or just since 'o' renewed it?

The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers,"

The same situation as Maj Hassan......a disgruntled soldier who had been removed from his cushy job at Walter Reed. His mental status was in question from his peers. Described as very disgruntled. Recently purchased firearms, His peers openly talked about his stability
When Hassan pulled the trigger, everyone asked "How could they have missed the signs.

I did not support the "patriot act" under Bush or Obama.

Fair enough, you just see it as something like an involuntary "committing" of a menatlly unstable person. I can buy that as a valid opinion. Thanks for voicing it.

I didn't support patriot act either. I was very disappointed that Obama renewed it.
 

Contessa_Sharra

Searcher for Accuracy
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
149
Points
48
Pre-Crime Policing

Allegedly “disgruntled” man has his guns seized, and “voluntarily” surrenders to two SWAT teams and dozens of police officers for a crime that hadn’t been committed

To hear them tell it, the five police agencies who apprehended 39-year-old Oregonian David Pyles early on the morning of March 8 thwarted another lone wolf mass murderer. The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers," the release said. Fortunately, Pyles "voluntarily" turned himself over to police custody, and the legally purchased firearms "were seized for safekeeping."

This voluntary exchange involved two SWAT teams, police officers from Medford and nearby Rosewood, sheriff's deputies from Jackson and Douglas counties, and the Oregon State Police. Oregon State Police Sgt. Jeff Proulx explained to South Oregon's Mail Tribune why the operation was such a success: "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach."

There's just one problem: David Pyles hadn't committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

"They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning," Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. "I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation."

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he'd need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back. On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the "disgruntled" worker's guns, and "now considers this matter closed.
And worse still, this is technically legal under the Patriot Act's "Lone Wolf" provision.

This is not the America I was born in...

Aren't we glad we have the Patriot Act, and Rule by the Fascist Police State?
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
222,776
Reaction score
48,549
Points
2,190
I believe that Police have always had the ability to remove someone for a mental evaluation even before the Patriot Act
 

strollingbones

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
88,612
Reaction score
22,976
Points
2,190
Location
chicken farm
your home is no longer your castle....we have allowed a police state to develop since 9/11...imagine taking an american from pre 9/11 and dropping them off in this country now....we are no longer free...

9/11 did what they wanted...took our freedom took our faith in ourselves.....sad...we let them undermine us...what happen to the unity that was after on 9/12..when the world stood with us..but more importantly we stood with each other...

we should all be fucking ashamed of what we have allowed this country to become...that are no differences in parties...all this fucking bull mal about one party caring for the people is just that.

face it....we have to take this country back...
 

Claudette

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
42,266
Reaction score
12,930
Points
2,250
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and they guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

Totally agree RW.
 

hjmick

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
22,684
Reaction score
7,448
Points
360
Location
Charleston, SC
Pre-Crime Policing

Allegedly “disgruntled” man has his guns seized, and “voluntarily” surrenders to two SWAT teams and dozens of police officers for a crime that hadn’t been committed

To hear them tell it, the five police agencies who apprehended 39-year-old Oregonian David Pyles early on the morning of March 8 thwarted another lone wolf mass murderer. The police "were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation," announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was "very disgruntled," and had recently purchased several firearms. "Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers," the release said. Fortunately, Pyles "voluntarily" turned himself over to police custody, and the legally purchased firearms "were seized for safekeeping."

This voluntary exchange involved two SWAT teams, police officers from Medford and nearby Rosewood, sheriff's deputies from Jackson and Douglas counties, and the Oregon State Police. Oregon State Police Sgt. Jeff Proulx explained to South Oregon's Mail Tribune why the operation was such a success: "Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach."

There's just one problem: David Pyles hadn't committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

"They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning," Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. "I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation."

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he'd need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back. On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the "disgruntled" worker's guns, and "now considers this matter closed.
And worse still, this is technically legal under the Patriot Act's "Lone Wolf" provision.

This is not the America I was born in...

Aren't we glad we have the Patriot Act, and Rule by the Fascist Police State?

Aren't you glad Obama renewed it? I didn't like it under Bush, I don't like it under Obama.
 

hjmick

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
22,684
Reaction score
7,448
Points
360
Location
Charleston, SC
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and the guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

No, all the threads would be, "Another right-wing nutter shoots up workplace," and "ban all guns," followed by, "he would have found a way to get the guns if he really wanted to."

No matter how you slice the potential outcome, what happened in Medford is not what this country is supposed to be about. Bottom line, it's bullshit.
 
Last edited:

Contessa_Sharra

Searcher for Accuracy
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
1,639
Reaction score
149
Points
48
Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and they guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

Totally agree RW.


Wrong - Hassan was under the direct control and orders of the US Army, and subject to comply with certain orders, and they knew he had been preaching insurrection, and so on, and their "green machine" chose to put personal self interest, keeping secrets and "protect our own career" asses ahead of decency and good sense.

This man may, according to his wussy supervisors, have been disgruntled, but he never made any threats, was working from home, and was waiting out admin procedures.... In other words, he was doing everything he was supposed to and apparently nothing he wasn't supposed to, and nothing chargeable. I think this was a power play move by the wussy supervisors to make himself look good and the other guy look bad before appeals boards. Power play, nothing more....
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$350.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top