First Pre-Crime Arrest

[Modbert]

Are they seriously using the Patriot Act to try to justify this? That thing was a nightmare from the start, which only makes sense I guess. Writing laws while hiding under the bed wetting their pants isn't the brightest idea Congress ever had. Get rid of it already.

There's surely more to this story. But I cant imagine there's enough to justify what the police did or they would have at least hinted at it.

Here's a serious question: What is wrong with people lately?

Fun Fact: The Patriot Act was written before 9/11.

 

[goldcatt]

It's about both rights and safety.

Even if this person was a mental health patient, there are rules and procedures for involuntary commitment. Those rules exist for a reason, and a damn good one. The State cannot deprive a person - any person - of liberty for any reason without due process of law. That applies to a State enforced mental health commitment just as much as it does to incarceration for a criminal act.

There has to be more to the story, and it's easy to see what's missing. An involuntary commitment can only happen if the person is judged by a court or mental health professional to be an imminent danger to himself or others. And yet we are told he made no threats to others and no judges or mental health professionals were consulted. Did they call in the SWAT teams because he was suicidal? That's crazy.

 

[Modbert]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiNUgJcNRJY]YouTube - Why did the Congress approve the Patriot Act?[/ame]

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In california they can put you on a 72 hour eval hold.

WTF?


I'm moving.

 

[hjmick]

Damned if you do....damned if you don't

If they had the opportunity and did nothing and the guy went postal, all the threads would be...."Why didn't they act sooner given the evidence?

Case in point Maj Hassan in Ft Hood

No, all the threads would be, "Another right-wing nutter shoots up workplace," and "ban all guns," followed by, "he would have found a way to get the guns if he really wanted to."

No matter how you slice the potential outcome, what happened in Medford is not what this country is supposed to be about. Bootm line, it's bullshit.

I'm not disagreeing with that possible result - but I've NEVER seen a "ban all guns" thread here.

You're probably right, not an entire thread dedicated to the idea, but there are a couple of folks who believe that only law enforcment and the military should have firearms.

 

[eagleseven]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

He should think twice before disputing his union contract?

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

There would be outrage from both you, Dante, and Wicked Jester.

 

[manu1959]

In california they can put you on a 72 hour eval hold.

funny how the uber liberal states have the most restrictive rules....for you own good mind you.....

 

[Wicked Jester]

The cops did the right thing.

In this day and age it's better safe than sorry.

 

[Wicked Jester]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

He should think twice before disputing his union contract?

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

There would be outrage from both you, Dante, and Wicked Jester.

You came out and said he was "arrested", when it's quite obvious he wasn't.

You obviously have a thing against cops. Taking you seriously on this subject is ludicrous, at best.

 

[goldcatt]

In california they can put you on a 72 hour eval hold.

funny how the uber liberal states have the most restrictive rules....for you own good mind you.....

Nope, that's a Due Process standard. 72 hours is as long as an involuntary can be held without a full hearing or an incompetency determination. Name of the case is on the tip of my tongue...darn it all, I'll have to go googling. And make coffee.

 

[eagleseven]

He wasn't arrested. He was DETAINED in order to get evaluated.

Get your facts straight people!

Detained liked the Guantanamo Bay DETAINEES?

And if he did go off and kill a bunch of people, you same lunatics would be up here screaming about the police not taking a proactive approach before it happened.

Take your "proactive approach" to North Korea.

Paranoia strikes deep. It's quite obvious that the OP is suffering from extreme paranoia. Or complete stupidity.

Let me guess..."If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," right?

Since when did we become the fucking Soviet Union? Why the hell did you join the military?


Clearly not to defend our Constitution.

 

[eagleseven]

You obviously have a thing against cops. Taking you seriously on this subject is ludicrous, at best.

What was I thinking, assuming that our police are bound by the 4th Amendment? I'm such a goofball!

 

[Ringel05]

The Minority Report is real!!!
(Was Tom Cruise there?)

 

[Wicked Jester]

It's quite obvious that the way he "disputed his union contract" was done in a way that raised serious flags.

Had the flags displayed by the VA tech shooter been scrutinized, it would have never happened. Same goes for Columbine. Same goes for Ft. Hood. Same goes for the dude who flew his plane into the IRS building. Same goes for a number of postal and school shooters.

Fact is, the OP has no idea what went down in that "dispute'' of said union contract.

 

[JScott]

Well I dont think you can go that far.

The UN Resolution that came out after the first gulf war (1331 or 1441, I've forgotten) set in stone that there WERE WMDs. And that they needed to be eliminated. That's the world community agreeing that they DID exist. Without proof that they were eliminated, what else were we to do?

But that's getting this thread off topic.


Every congressman who voted for the Patriot Act needs to be ashamed.

I looked up 1331 and 1441 and neither confirm WMDs. In fact, there are no references that I found saying this.

 

[eagleseven]

It's quite obvious that the way he "disputed his union contract" was done in a way that raised serious flags.

Which were what, precisely? Adding three guns to his collection?

So now, National Rifled Association members cannot purchase arms when unemployed?

Had the flags displayed by the VA tech shooter been scrutinized, it would have never happened. Same goes for Columbine. Same goes for Ft. Hood. Same goes for the dude who flew his plane into the IRS building. Same goes for a number of postal and school shooters.

Clean psychiatric evaluation.
No felonies or misdemeanors.
No illegal drug use of any kind.
No associations with radical Islamic mosques.

I think you're seeing red flags. Maybe you need to be detained for psychiatric evaluation for a few days?

Fact is, the OP has no idea what went down in that "dispute'' of said union contract.

Not enough to get a warrant.

 

[Dr Grump]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

He should think twice before disputing his union contract?

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

There would be outrage from both you, Dante, and Wicked Jester.

You are saying Dante, WJ and I would be outraged if this guy went postal and it came out after the fact he was being monitored by the police because he was thought to be a threat to society? Of course I would be outraged. You wouldn't be because, as long as his rights were protected up until he committed the act, things would be fine and dandy? Riiiggghhtt...

People like you want this perfect little line drawn in the sand where certain actions stop and start. Welcome to the real world. Things are not perfect. Give the guy $20,000 for his troubles and move on. I have enough faith in my society that when things like this do happen, the wrongs will be righted in a clear, concise matter. And in saying that, if the OP is right, then I think the police acted correctly.

Trying to draw a very long bow between this occurrence and the Soviet Union is weak at best, strawman and worst.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It was bound to happen after we invaded Iraq before the crime was comitted.

You are a FUCKING RETARD.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

He should think twice before disputing his union contract?

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

There would be outrage from both you, Dante, and Wicked Jester.

You came out and said he was "arrested", when it's quite obvious he wasn't.

You obviously have a thing against cops. Taking you seriously on this subject is ludicrous, at best.

He was forced to take a mental evaluation. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Supreme Court rule in Roe vs Wade we all had a RIGHT to privacy? He committed no crime, was not in the process of committing a crime, the cops had no reason to dispatch 4 different police agencies and 2 SWAT teams to his house. He was handcuffed and escorted away by the police.

 

[eagleseven]

You are saying Dante, WJ and I would be outraged if this guy went postal and it came out after the fact he was being monitored by the police because he was thought to be a threat to society? Of course I would be outraged. You wouldn't be because, as long as his rights were protected up until he committed the act, things would be fine and dandy? Riiiggghhtt...

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin

I'll take my chances, if it means the government cannot raid my home in the middle of the night to kidnap me without a warrant.

People like you want this perfect little line drawn in the sand where certain actions stop and start. Welcome to the real world. Things are not perfect. Give the guy $20,000 for his troubles and move on. I have enough faith in my society that when things like this do happen, the wrongs will be righted in a clear, concise matter. And in saying that, if the OP is right, then I think the police acted correctly.

Far too many Americans died protecting this Constitution, to sacrifice it for the sake of a few dozen shooting victims.