Fighting Back Against the Lawyers?

[Rambunctious]

Have you ever wondered what could be done to stem the litigious insanity that has become the norm in America? Our insurance rates have skyrocketed, and it is becoming almost impossible for small businesses to survive. Well, the American Medical Association may have an answer.

AMA chapters in several states have introduced legislation to allow doctors to refuse non-critical treatment to lawyers and their spouses. This comes as a result of Tort Reform legislation that the AMA has been backing. Six states have already passed a punitive damage cap of $250,000 for medical malpractice suits. This legislation is being strongly pursued by the AMA in many states, because many doctors can no longer afford to practice with current malpractice insurance rates. Today, most doctors pay more than half of their earnings to insurance companies, and the rates are going up every year.

This issue has become a hotbed with the AMA chapters in many states including New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, Oklahoma, Georgia, Missouri, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Others are expected to propose similar measures.

All of us suffer from high medical insurance premiums due to the hordes of lawyers who ring hospitals like circling vultures as well as the teams of lawyers who now have to be retained to defend the hospitals. All of this is paid for by... guess who... (got a pocket mirror?). I won't even get into how many billions of our tax dollars pay for the huge court system required to deal with all this bogus legal wrangling.

I would LOVE to see the day that small businessmen everywhere fight back. A day where lawyers cannot get a suit dry-cleaned. Where they are refused service in restaurants and are tossed from taxicabs. A day where lawyers are shunned from polite circles. Alas, this type of blacklisting has already been tried, and it failed. We used to expose and shun the Communists and Socialists in our midst. Today they run the DNC..


-M40-

 

[JScott]

Have you ever wondered what could be done to stem the litigious insanity that has become the norm in America? Our insurance rates have skyrocketed, and it is becoming almost impossible for small businesses to survive. Well, the American Medical Association may have an answer.

AMA chapters in several states have introduced legislation to allow doctors to refuse non-critical treatment to lawyers and their spouses. This comes as a result of Tort Reform legislation that the AMA has been backing. Six states have already passed a punitive damage cap of $250,000 for medical malpractice suits. This legislation is being strongly pursued by the AMA in many states, because many doctors can no longer afford to practice with current malpractice insurance rates. Today, most doctors pay more than half of their earnings to insurance companies, and the rates are going up every year.

This issue has become a hotbed with the AMA chapters in many states including New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, Oklahoma, Georgia, Missouri, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Others are expected to propose similar measures.

All of us suffer from high medical insurance premiums due to the hordes of lawyers who ring hospitals like circling vultures as well as the teams of lawyers who now have to be retained to defend the hospitals. All of this is paid for by... guess who... (got a pocket mirror?). I won't even get into how many billions of our tax dollars pay for the huge court system required to deal with all this bogus legal wrangling.

I would LOVE to see the day that small businessmen everywhere fight back. A day where lawyers cannot get a suit dry-cleaned. Where they are refused service in restaurants and are tossed from taxicabs. A day where lawyers are shunned from polite circles. Alas, this type of blacklisting has already been tried, and it failed. We used to expose and shun the Communists and Socialists in our midst. Today they run the DNC..


-M40-

Insurance companies dont have any responsibility in this at all, do they?

 

[rightwinger]

Have you ever wondered what could be done to stem the litigious insanity that has become the norm in America? Our insurance rates have skyrocketed, and it is becoming almost impossible for small businesses to survive. Well, the American Medical Association may have an answer.

AMA chapters in several states have introduced legislation to allow doctors to refuse non-critical treatment to lawyers and their spouses. This comes as a result of Tort Reform legislation that the AMA has been backing. Six states have already passed a punitive damage cap of $250,000 for medical malpractice suits. This legislation is being strongly pursued by the AMA in many states, because many doctors can no longer afford to practice with current malpractice insurance rates. Today, most doctors pay more than half of their earnings to insurance companies, and the rates are going up every year.

This issue has become a hotbed with the AMA chapters in many states including New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, Oklahoma, Georgia, Missouri, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Others are expected to propose similar measures.

All of us suffer from high medical insurance premiums due to the hordes of lawyers who ring hospitals like circling vultures as well as the teams of lawyers who now have to be retained to defend the hospitals. All of this is paid for by... guess who... (got a pocket mirror?). I won't even get into how many billions of our tax dollars pay for the huge court system required to deal with all this bogus legal wrangling.

I would LOVE to see the day that small businessmen everywhere fight back. A day where lawyers cannot get a suit dry-cleaned. Where they are refused service in restaurants and are tossed from taxicabs. A day where lawyers are shunned from polite circles. Alas, this type of blacklisting has already been tried, and it failed. We used to expose and shun the Communists and Socialists in our midst. Today they run the DNC..


-M40-

It all sounds great until you are the one injured through no fault of your own.

 

[eagleseven]

It all sounds great until you are the one injured through no fault of your own.

And then it's awesome, after the settlement. Early retirement!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOajzfDQbKU]YouTube - Outstanding Lawyer Ad[/ame]

 

[rightwinger]

It all sounds great until you are the one injured through no fault of your own.

And then it's awesome, after the settlement. Early retirement!

QUOTE]

Unfortunately, those multi million dollar settlements that allow a cushy early retirement have some strings attached

Like eating your meals through a straw
Wearing adult diapers
Being blind
Being severely disfigured
Having non-stop pain

 

[eagleseven]

And then it's awesome, after the settlement. Early retirement!

Unfortunately, those multi million dollar settlements that allow a cushy early retirement have some strings attached

Like eating your meals through a straw
Wearing adult diapers
Being blind
Being severely disfigured
Having non-stop pain

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

 

[jillian]

maybe there should be legislation that physicians should be able to deny non-critical treatment to the terminally stupid.

 

[jillian]

And then it's awesome, after the settlement. Early retirement!

Unfortunately, those multi million dollar settlements that allow a cushy early retirement have some strings attached

Like eating your meals through a straw
Wearing adult diapers
Being blind
Being severely disfigured
Having non-stop pain

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

most... it costs about $50,000 to pursue a med mal case, on average. if the case has no merit, it can't get past the merit panels. i'm not going to say there are no people who would take a meritless case, but it wouldn't go very far.

 

[strollingbones]

perhaps if the ama would police itself instead of protecting doctors at all costs..there would not be so many out of court settlements..that are kept quiet by the everyone....cant just pack this off on lawyers....ama just doesnt do it part ... someone needs to hold doctors responsible for bad medicine

 

[eagleseven]

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

most... it costs about $50,000 to pursue a med mal case, on average. if the case has no merit, it can't get past the merit panels. i'm not going to say there are no people who would take a meritless case, but it wouldn't go very far.

So medicine is too inherently risky for general practitioners to practice?

For those demanding >$250k in malpractice suits, have they considered the impact of their demands upon the severe medical staffing shortage?

No, they are simply seeking revenge against the imperfect field of medicine.

 

[rightwinger]

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

most... it costs about $50,000 to pursue a med mal case, on average. if the case has no merit, it can't get past the merit panels. i'm not going to say there are no people who would take a meritless case, but it wouldn't go very far.

So medicine is too inherently risky for general practitioners to practice?

For those demanding >$250k in malpractice suits, have they considered the impact of their demands upon the severe medical staffing shortage?

No, they are simply seeking revenge against the imperfect field of medicine.

Yes, medicine is imperfect. That is why you have to prove malpractice and prove definitive injuries.
I don't think juries are as stupid as you think. Doctors do screw up, some doctors are inept.

 

[eagleseven]

Yes, medicine is imperfect. That is why you have to prove malpractice and prove definitive injuries.
I don't think juries are as stupid as you think. Doctors do screw up, some doctors are inept.

These legal costs are shared by both healthcare practitioners and the public they serve. Increased costs both reduce the number of available practitioners (thus the long waits) and the price of care.

If Obamacare passes without malpractice reform, this means we will have higher taxes (or deficits) and longer waits, as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic).


I thought healthcare reform was supposed to cut costs, not increase them.

 

[Avatar4321]

The problem is the system can be too expensive. That provides companies incentives to settle rather than litigate claims even if they have a legitimate case. And lawyers know this and take advantage of it.

So you have multiple claims that may or may not be lost in court being settled, and that causes money to be paid out. I think that's far more destructive than the huge law suits, though it does seem ridiculous that punative damages can be so high.

 

[goldcatt]

The problem is the system can be too expensive. That provides companies incentives to settle rather than litigate claims even if they have a legitimate case. And lawyers know this and take advantage of it.

So you have multiple claims that may or may not be lost in court being settled, and that causes money to be paid out. I think that's far more destructive than the huge law suits, though it does seem ridiculous that punative damages can be so high.

For once we're in almost total agreement. I'd take it one step further though, and speculate that the malpractice insurers don't really want the practice to end. Payouts, deserved or not, make their product more valuable and give them more power over practitioners.

I would agree as to a cap on punitives, but how high? They still need to serve their purpose as a deterrent after all, not just a windfall.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, medicine is imperfect. That is why you have to prove malpractice and prove definitive injuries.
I don't think juries are as stupid as you think. Doctors do screw up, some doctors are inept.

These legal costs are shared by both healthcare practitioners and the public they serve. Increased costs both reduce the number of available practitioners (thus the long waits) and the price of care.

If Obamacare passes without malpractice reform, this means we will have higher taxes (or deficits) and longer waits, as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic).


I thought healthcare reform was supposed to cut costs, not increase them.

Typical conservative red herring

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

Try suffering for the rest of your life and have someone tell you that you are being frivolous

 

[Granny]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

 

[eagleseven]

Typical conservative red herring

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

Try suffering for the rest of your life and have someone tell you that you are being frivolous

You don't reduce costs by responding to emotional anecdotes with rash systemic changes.

You reduce costs by looking at the cold, hard numbers and crunching them until satisfactory healthcare can be purchased/provided for all. This is true regardless of the public/private nature of the system.

Our laws are written by emotional politicians motivated by the individual stories and demands of the lobbyists and activists they meet, and we wonder why all our government programs are going bankrupt?

 

[Contumacious]

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

Barratry, Champerty, and Maintenance

Here are definitions of some interesting legal terms from Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (1913):

* Barratry: "The practice of exciting and encouraging lawsuits and quarrels."

* Champerty: "The prosecution or defense of a suit, whether by furnishing money or personal services, by one who has no legitimate concern therein, in consideration of an agreement that he shall receive, in the event of success, a share of the matter in suit; maintenance with the addition of an agreement to divide the thing in suit."

* Maintenance: "An officious or unlawful intermeddling in a cause depending between others, by assisting either party with money or means to carry it on."

.

 

[uscitizen]

1st step re-enable the rules that prevented lawyers from any specialty advertising
I recall when that was deregulated and what we opponents said would happen did.

 

[Claudette]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.