Fighting Back Against the Lawyers?

[Ringel05]

Yes, medicine is imperfect. That is why you have to prove malpractice and prove definitive injuries.
I don't think juries are as stupid as you think. Doctors do screw up, some doctors are inept.

These legal costs are shared by both healthcare practitioners and the public they serve. Increased costs both reduce the number of available practitioners (thus the long waits) and the price of care.

If Obamacare passes without malpractice reform, this means we will have higher taxes (or deficits) and longer waits, as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic).


I thought healthcare reform was supposed to cut costs, not increase them.

Typical conservative red herring

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

Try suffering for the rest of your life and have someone tell you that you are being frivolous

I'm reading his post you responded to and I don't see that anywhere in it.
Wow, clairvoyance must be awesome!

 

[goldcatt]

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

A business shouldn't be concerned with the bottom line? After all, the goal of making a profit is good enough for health care.

 

[Granny]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

Your sister is dead-on!! Conniving little bastards, they are. I think working for attorneys is one of the most stressful jobs one can have. And many of the female attorneys are pure bitches from hell.

Thirty years, huh? My hat is off to your sister.

 

[blastoff]

Shakespeare was spot-on. "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!"

 

[rightwinger]

These legal costs are shared by both healthcare practitioners and the public they serve. Increased costs both reduce the number of available practitioners (thus the long waits) and the price of care.

If Obamacare passes without malpractice reform, this means we will have higher taxes (or deficits) and longer waits, as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic).


I thought healthcare reform was supposed to cut costs, not increase them.

Typical conservative red herring

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

Try suffering for the rest of your life and have someone tell you that you are being frivolous

I'm reading his post you responded to and I don't see that anywhere in it.
Wow, clairvoyance must be awesome!

"as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic)."

Typical nonsense.

All poor people love to scam the system with frivolous suits. Thats why they are constantly running out into traffic

 

[Ringel05]

Typical conservative red herring

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

Try suffering for the rest of your life and have someone tell you that you are being frivolous

I'm reading his post you responded to and I don't see that anywhere in it.
Wow, clairvoyance must be awesome!

"as the formerly uninsured bombard the system with frivolous malpractice suits (no different from the homeless who run in front of traffic)."

Typical nonsense.

All poor people love to scam the system with frivolous suits. Thats why they are constantly running out into traffic

Yeah but that's a huge leap to:

"All malpractice suits are frivolous attempts to win millions of dollars"

 

[Lonestar_logic]

maybe there should be legislation that physicians should be able to deny non-critical treatment to the terminally stupid.

That would mean you would never be seen by a physician.

 

[Claudette]

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

A business shouldn't be concerned with the bottom line? After all, the goal of making a profit is good enough for health care.

Of course a business has to make money. Thats not the point.

Its the fact that most are only looking for money. They really don't care about the people they represent and only care about how lucrative the case will be.

Not enough money, they won't take it. No matter how deserving the client is.

My sister calls em land sharks. LOL

 

[Claudette]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

Your sister is dead-on!! Conniving little bastards, they are. I think working for attorneys is one of the most stressful jobs one can have. And many of the female attorneys are pure bitches from hell.

Thirty years, huh? My hat is off to your sister.

Thanks for the kind words an I will pass em on to my Sister. She would really appreciate you Granny. LOL

 

[Vanquish]

Great. Yet another "bash the attorney" thread...peppered with 30-year vets.

I'm proud to be an attorney who does personal injury work along with race discrimination, police brutality, first amendment work and other, dare I say it, noble causes.

Sure, there are bad apples...but the majority of lawyers are good people...not bloodsuckers. And just to let you know, most of you people denegrating lawyers for wanting to make a profit...are the same ones that defend big business "free market" (uhm there's no such thing btw) enterprise.

Want some facts? Try these on for size:

“Many of the current tort reform initiatives, such as caps on noneconomic damages, are motivated by a perception that ‘jackpot’ awards in frivolous suits are draining the system,” explained Michelle Mello, an associate professor of health policy and law at HSPH and a co-author of the study. “But nearly 80% of the administrative costs of the malpractice system are tied to resolving claims that have merit. Finding ways to streamline the lengthy and costly processing of meritorious claims should be in the bullseye of reform efforts.”

“The best evidence shows, at most, a small overall decrease in the number of physicians practicing in high-liability states compared to lower-risk states, though some rural areas have been more affected,” Mello said. Aside from caps on noneconomic damages, most tort reforms adopted by states in response to malpractice crises have not been effective in boosting physician supply or reducing insurance or litigation costs. Damages caps “help constrain growth in litigation costs and insurance premiums over time, but disproportionately burden the most severely injured patients.”

Study Casts Doubt on Claims That the Medical Malpractice System Is Plagued By Frivolous Lawsuits - May 10, 2006 -2006 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health

So flail your hands and scream about a lottery system. It's just not true. I love people who blindly support big insurance companies. They're so easy to weed out during jury selection.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Have you ever wondered what could be done to stem the litigious insanity that has become the norm in America?

We could limit the amount Lawyers are allowed to collect. Cap their earnings and they may decide against taking spurious cases.

Of course with medical malpractice we should keep national statistics and when a Physician shows they belong to the 5% who create 90% of the Malpractice cases that physician should be banned from EVER practicing in the US again.

Two steps which might help the situation immensely.
Now if we could only get the hypochondriacs out of the system.....

 

[MaggieMae]

And then it's awesome, after the settlement. Early retirement!

Unfortunately, those multi million dollar settlements that allow a cushy early retirement have some strings attached

Like eating your meals through a straw
Wearing adult diapers
Being blind
Being severely disfigured
Having non-stop pain

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

Lots. However, many are thrown out of court as being frivolous and many others are settled long before they ever get to court. But the malpractice itself that goes on is shocking. This is a report posted in January 2007:

Medical Malpractice Facts & Statistics on Hosptial Mistakes, Costs of Medical Malpractice Insurance.

 

[MaggieMae]

What percentage of malpractice claims are for genuinely severe cases?

most... it costs about $50,000 to pursue a med mal case, on average. if the case has no merit, it can't get past the merit panels. i'm not going to say there are no people who would take a meritless case, but it wouldn't go very far.

So medicine is too inherently risky for general practitioners to practice?

For those demanding >$250k in malpractice suits, have they considered the impact of their demands upon the severe medical staffing shortage?

No, they are simply seeking revenge against the imperfect field of medicine.

Malpractice insurance premiums vary tremendously by region. It may cost a GP in Miami $50,000 a year, but a GP in Butte only $5,000. (Examples only.)

 

[goldcatt]

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

A business shouldn't be concerned with the bottom line? After all, the goal of making a profit is good enough for health care.

Of course a business has to make money. Thats not the point.

Its the fact that most are only looking for money. They really don't care about the people they represent and only care about how lucrative the case will be.

Not enough money, they won't take it. No matter how deserving the client is.

My sister calls em land sharks. LOL

Funny, my mechanic doesn't fix cars for free and isn't expected to.

I deserve my oil changed, dammit! What does it matter if I can't pay what he charges to cover his expenses and still make a profit? Those damn mechanics, always looking for a buck.

My mother's uncle's sister's nephew's roommmate's brother worked for one, owes 30 years of his livelihood to the job that scum sucking mechanic provides, and hates 'em all - says they only care about the money, not the cars. And he should know!

Let's make laws capping what they're allowed to earn, those leeches. Or just save time and hang 'em all!

/sarcasm off

 

[MaggieMae]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

For all those reasons, most reputable lawfirms won't take on what appears on its face to be a frivolous case in the first place. I also spent 18 years as administrator in a law firm that grew from 6 to 100 lawyers within the first 10 years, and even while they were building their reputation, they knew which ones would be duds and knew enough not to take them on. Those get shifted to the ambulance chasers who do everything by rote and take a third of any settlement but only AFTER they have chipped away at a retainer.

Another problem that was foreseen by the more reputable firms was the use of advertising. Whereas law firms used to only advertise in Yellow Pages, that all changed in the 80's, and now we're inundated on television by those scoundels who have figured out they can make a bundle with class action suits. (If I have to listen to Madeline describe her husband's melanoma complete with family recipes one more time, I'm going to put my foot through the tube.) There are still reputable lawyers who cringe at such advertising, as it diminishes the credibility of the profession.

 

[MaggieMae]

With a 25-year career working for lawyers, I can assure you they don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. By the time taxes, attorney costs and fees, expert witness fees, etc. come out of these massive settlements, the plaintiff's don't end up with much of anything.

Take a look at TV commercials - do you have a hangnail as a result of wearing purple nail polish - you MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!! Have you or someone you know suffered illness or death due to Yaz, Yasmin, Cialis, Coca-Cola, or bean spouts - YOU MAY HAVE A CLAIM!!!

The law firms are generally not licensed to practice in all states so they team up with a law firm or multiple law firms in each state and ALL those additional lawyers, paralegals, and staff people together can take a huge chunk of any awards made. They will spend HOURS of billable time on each and every item (sometimes with three or four lawyers all billing the same time because they even spoke to each other) - and the amount of paper that is churned out day after day on drafts, edits, re-edits and the photocopies out the yen-yang is astounding. Photocopies are charged per page copied and copies have to go out to every plaintiff, every attorney involved and select client contacts time after time after time.

It's a nightmare. Time is billed in 6 minute increments so if you have a 15 minute phone call with an attorney you're going to be billed at least .3 hours (18 minutes).

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

Not to derail the topic, but isn't "making money" a good thing in a capitalist society? At least that's what the conservatives keep hammering away--that the only way the have-nots will get to have anything is if the "haves" can continue to "make money" and it trickles down. So that shouldn't include lawyers?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

maybe there should be legislation that physicians should be able to deny non-critical treatment to the terminally stupid.

Then where would you go if you got sick?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It all sounds great until you are the one injured through no fault of your own.

Agreed, which is why I am opposed to caps on malpractice suits. However, I do agree as well that something needs to be done to rein in frivolous lawsuits. I"m just not sure what that something is.

 

[MaggieMae]

My sister has been a paralegal for 30 odd years. She's worked for any number of attorneys. According to her most attorneys, not all, have one thing on their minds. The BOTTOM LINE. They are concerned with making MONEY. They really don't give a rats ass about the person they are representing just the MONEY.

Perhaps we should do as they do in Europe. If you sue and lose. You pay all the costs. Thats why European courts aren't overflowing with frivilous lawsuits.

Try getting that through Congress and see how quick the lawyers lobby starts throwing the green at both parties.

A business shouldn't be concerned with the bottom line? After all, the goal of making a profit is good enough for health care.

Of course a business has to make money. Thats not the point.

Its the fact that most are only looking for money. They really don't care about the people they represent and only care about how lucrative the case will be.

Not enough money, they won't take it. No matter how deserving the client is.

My sister calls em land sharks. LOL

The firm I worked for had a policy where every associate had to do X-number of hours of pro bono work. They didn't like it, but it was good training and also worked as a means of advertising through simple word of mouth.

 

[goldcatt]

If all of those lawyers ran their firms based on who "deserves" service regrdless of ability to pay rather than as a business, if they did not charge and collect appropriately, none of the complainers would have jobs to complain about. Law is expensive to practice, and a firm has more overhead than the average person walking in the door understands. Rates have to cover that overhead and still make a profit, just like any other business. That's just the way it is.

Do the bottom feeders give the rest a bad name? Of course they do. But that doesn't change the fact that there are still many reputable professionals out there. You just have to pay for them like you would the services of any other reputable professional.