Father kills gay son

[Syriusly]

The right to marry would be one. But straights tried to use government power to establish their religion and prevent it.

But now gays and lesbians are trying to use that same government to establish it, and crush any religious objection to it.

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

I quoted two verses from the New Testament, but you don't seem to believe them either.

I am not a Christian.

I have no obligation to follow the New Testament- or attempt to reconcile my beliefs with what might be contradictory instructions.

As a Christian- how can you ignore Paul's clear instructions in the New Testament?

 

[flacaltenn]

The right to marry would be one. But straights tried to use government power to establish their religion and prevent it.

But now gays and lesbians are trying to use that same government to establish it, and crush any religious objection to it.

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

 

[Syriusly]

The right to marry would be one. But straights tried to use government power to establish their religion and prevent it.

But now gays and lesbians are trying to use that same government to establish it, and crush any religious objection to it.

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

Well if you were familiar with the New Testament you would know the rest of Romans 13

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So what did Paul mean? Are you even a Christian?

This specific commandment by Paul is far- FAR- more explicit than any hint of anything telling a Christian he shouldn't sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

 

[aris2chat]

Priests, ministers, etc are no more required now to marry anyone than they were before. A minister can still refuse to marry someone because he is black, Mexican, Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Gay.

Wrong. Deal has now sent the message that it is okay for a gay couple to walk into a church and demand they be married. That priests will no long receive protection from their government should such a situation arise.

No, Churches Won't Be Forced To Marry Gays - Americans ...
Home | Americans United...
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Same-Sex Scare Tactics: No, Churches Won't Be Forced To Marry Gays ... How many members of the clergy in Massachusetts have been forced to perform marriages for same-sex couples since then? ... The priest will tell them that they first must take instruction in the Catholic faith and become church ... Donate Now ...

High-court ruling won't affect church weddings - USA Today
www.usatoday.com/story/...same-sex-marriage/29376803/
USA Today
Jun 26, 2015 - ... first same-sex marriage now that Kentucky's ban on gay marriage has. ... to officiate at weddings of gays and lesbians — or still are prohibited from doing so. ... Priests cannot preside at a ceremony that does not reflect this ...

But

The Episcopal Church approves religious weddings for gay ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../why-the-episcopa...
The Washington Post
Jul 1, 2015 - The bishops of the Episcopal Church have authorized their clergy to perform ... Episcopalians voted Wednesday to allow religious weddings for gay couples, but not every priest will ... Priests in dioceses where the bishop forbid same-sex marriages may not ... Where do the battle lines get drawn now?

 

[flacaltenn]

But now gays and lesbians are trying to use that same government to establish it, and crush any religious objection to it.

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

Well if you were familiar with the New Testament you would know the rest of Romans 13

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So what did Paul mean? Are you even a Christian?

This specific commandment by Paul is far- FAR- more explicit than any hint of anything telling a Christian he shouldn't sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

Taxes are one thing. Respect and Honor are OPTIONAL.. But bestowing Divine wisdom and grace on EVERY Authority is NOT in the Bible....

 

[TemplarKormac]

But now gays and lesbians are trying to use that same government to establish it, and crush any religious objection to it.

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

I quoted two verses from the New Testament, but you don't seem to believe them either.

I am not a Christian.

I have no obligation to follow the New Testament- or attempt to reconcile my beliefs with what might be contradictory instructions.

As a Christian- how can you ignore Paul's clear instructions in the New Testament?

As a non Christian, why do you make a habit of quoting the Bible so much? How is it you can tell me how to follow my faith, while being an unbeliever like yourself?

And the last time I checked, it's the word of God, not the word of Paul.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And why is it people only acknowledge any merit the Bible has when it somehow agrees with their opinion?

 

[mdk]

And why is it people only acknowledge any merit the Bible has when it somehow agrees with their opinion?

For the same reason that people whom do hold the Bible dear but ignore all the parts that do not jive with their lifestyle...b/c it is convenient.

Hope all is well on your end, TK! Cheers!

 

[TemplarKormac]

And why is it people only acknowledge any merit the Bible has when it somehow agrees with their opinion?

For the same reason that people whom do hold the Bible dear but ignore all the parts that do not jive with their lifestyle...b/c it is convenient.

Hope all is well on your end, TK! Cheers!

No truer words have ever been spoken.

I hope all is well likewise. Live long and prosper, buddy!

 

[Syriusly]

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

Well if you were familiar with the New Testament you would know the rest of Romans 13

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So what did Paul mean? Are you even a Christian?

This specific commandment by Paul is far- FAR- more explicit than any hint of anything telling a Christian he shouldn't sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

Taxes are one thing. Respect and Honor are OPTIONAL.. But bestowing Divine wisdom and grace on EVERY Authority is NOT in the Bible....

You aren't a Christian are you?

How you can think Paul is saying "yes you have to pay taxes, but obeying authority is optional' in Romans 13 is just poor reading comprehension.

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13
All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God.
2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised.
4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong.
5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 

[Syriusly]

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

I quoted two verses from the New Testament, but you don't seem to believe them either.

I am not a Christian.

I have no obligation to follow the New Testament- or attempt to reconcile my beliefs with what might be contradictory instructions.

As a Christian- how can you ignore Paul's clear instructions in the New Testament?

As a non Christian, why do you make a habit of quoting the Bible so much? How is it you can tell me how to follow my faith, while being an unbeliever like yourself?

And the last time I checked, it's the word of God, not the word of Paul.

The Bible is the word of God- if you believe such things.

But Romans 13 is supposed to be Paul's instructions to Christians.

Do you also reject the rest of Romans 13?

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”a]">[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b]">[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

I am no Christian, but I have enjoyed reading the Bible since I was a teenager. I don't believe in God- but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate many of the wise things that Jesus said.

 

[Syriusly]

And why is it people only acknowledge any merit the Bible has when it somehow agrees with their opinion?

Are you speaking of your own attempts to ignore Romans 13?

 

[flacaltenn]

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

Well if you were familiar with the New Testament you would know the rest of Romans 13

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So what did Paul mean? Are you even a Christian?

This specific commandment by Paul is far- FAR- more explicit than any hint of anything telling a Christian he shouldn't sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

Taxes are one thing. Respect and Honor are OPTIONAL.. But bestowing Divine wisdom and grace on EVERY Authority is NOT in the Bible....

You aren't a Christian are you?

How you can think Paul is saying "yes you have to pay taxes, but obeying authority is optional' in Romans 13 is just poor reading comprehension.

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13
All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God.
2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised.
4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong.
5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Look Reverend -- if you want to bully Chinese Christians and tell them that the Lord COMMANDS them to stop whining and submit to prohibitions on their worship ---- be my guest.. HOWEVER, the arguments over LGBTYQP issues are not solely over religious verse. And no fundy Christians are out there grabbing LGBTYPQ folks off the streets and routinely crucifying them. That would be Muslims..

But I suppose Imam Siriusly could find the chapter and verse of Surah/Koran that could make them stop...

 

[koshergrl]

It's also true and you have to know that. When was the time, any time that you saw any action for violating a personal right to love and acceptance?

What are you talking about?

You might find a family reprehensible for turning away a child but there is nothing to stop them from doing it.

Eh, you have parenting all wrong pal. There are Christians here who want to preserve the "family unit" as it were. Here you are wanting to tear it apart because one member is gay.

Family's family. I don't understand why you would simply throw your gay family member out on the street for being gay.

I think Tipsy really is just trolling.

But his promotion of hatred is so all over the place its hard to tell.

It's perplexing how I've not been accused of "promoting hatred" when I make an argument for religious freedom. Am I?

No, that's the standard recitation of authoritarians seeking to eliminate Christians from tbe face of the earth.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you speaking of your own attempts to ignore Romans 13?

Quite the contrary, I'm aware of its full context.

If you are any expert with the Bible, you'll think of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. In Daniel 3.

In it, King Nebuchadnezzar ordered them to bow down before a statue of gold made in his likeness. Up until that point they had been law abiding citizens in Nebuchadnezzar's realm, nor did they directly challenge his authority. But in this instance, the Ten Commandments applied. Thou shalt not make for thee any graven image. They refused, even knowing that doing so would be at the pain of death, they knew obeying the king's order would have been direct disobedience to God's command.

They were thrown into a fiery furnace for their disobedience, but God, knowing they had stayed true to his command, protected them from certain doom. This is an example where it is God's will not to heed the governing authorities.

Also, you would have also considered Acts 4. In it, the Sanhedrin demanded that Peter and John stop preaching the name of Jesus. But obeying such a command would have constituted disobedience before God. Though they did not openly challenged the authority of the Sanhedrin, they made it clear they could not stop preaching the gospel.

"And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them,"Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge; for we cannot stop speaking what we have seen and heard."

-Acts 4:19-20

So, they went on preaching the gospel despite the order, and were arrested again by the Jewish authorities for disobedience. And in another of your oversights, Acts 5:28-32, when the Sanhedrin asked why they did not obey:

"Did not we strictly command you that you should not teach in this name? And, behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree. He is who God has exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him."

When the Sanhedrin heard their reply, in Acts 5:33-42 they conspired to kill them. However, one of the Sanhedrin, Gamaliel convinced the council not to execute them. They were instead beaten and once again commanded not to preach in Jesus' name. They rejoiced, being happy to be counted as worthy to endure suffering for the Lord's sake. However, once again, they disobeyed, going into every house and temple preaching the name of Jesus:

"When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, You, men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it; lest haply you be found even to fight against God. And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ."

You failed to consider Exodus 1, in which the Egyptian Pharaoh commanded the Hebrew midwives to kill all the baby boys; for he feared the Hebrews would grow strong enough to resist him. But the midwives did not obey, and God blessed them with families. This is another example for which not submitting to the governing authorities was the will of God, not of your idol, Paul.

This example would be another of the more recognizable ones in the Bible. In the book of Daniel, chapter 6, King Darius decreed that for 30 days, no man could petition to any god, with exception to Darius himself. Daniel, being one of Darius' three chief presidents, in verse 10:

"When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously."

When he was caught, Darius had Daniel thrown into a pit of lions to be devoured. However, God sent an angel to cull the wrath of the lions, thereby saving him from his demise. This is yet one more example of God approving of Daniel's resistance to the governing authorities, just as God saved Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from the fiery furnace.

Perhaps you forgot to read 1 Corinthians 2:8, where Paul himself knew full well that leaders of governments were not keen to the wisdom of God, or else they would have not crucified Jesus on the cross:

"None of the rulers of this age understood the wisdom of God; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Another, final example you failed to consider was 1 Peter 2:11, an instruction from Peter:

"Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul."

Should I rob Peter to pay Paul?

In sum, this is why Romans 13 is not the end-all-be-all. There are times when it becomes necessary to obey God rather than men. There are limits to our obedience, and you, of all people, who make a hobby of reading the Bible, should understand the dilemma this places Christians in. These are all examples of God allowing his followers to disobey the governing authorities. God, not Paul, is the ultimate authority.

Perhaps you don't know the Bible as well as you think you do.

 

[Syriusly]

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

Not a matter of "belief".. It's a matter of DEFINITIONS.. What Earthly "Authorities" rule by the grace and wisdom of God? Is it THIS GUY??

Well if you were familiar with the New Testament you would know the rest of Romans 13

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So what did Paul mean? Are you even a Christian?

This specific commandment by Paul is far- FAR- more explicit than any hint of anything telling a Christian he shouldn't sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

Taxes are one thing. Respect and Honor are OPTIONAL.. But bestowing Divine wisdom and grace on EVERY Authority is NOT in the Bible....

You aren't a Christian are you?

How you can think Paul is saying "yes you have to pay taxes, but obeying authority is optional' in Romans 13 is just poor reading comprehension.

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13
All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God.
2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised.
4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong.
5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Look Reverend -- if you want to bully Chinese Christians and tell them that the Lord COMMANDS them to stop whining and submit to prohibitions on their worship ---- be my guest...

I am not telling Chinese Christians to do anything- hell unlike you I have actually met Chinese Christians in China.

Still waiting for you to address what the New Testament says as opposed to your blather.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Bible is the word of God- if you believe such things.

But Romans 13 is supposed to be Paul's instructions to Christians.

Do you also reject the rest of Romans 13?

Hardly. You being an unbeliever have such a narrow interpretation of Romans 13.

Here, I'll further demonstrate. Take this is quote from Daniel Piper, taken from a sermon on July 5, 1981:

"What does have to be qualified is (Romans 13) verse 3. In view of what Paul knows about the miscarriage of justice in the death of Jesus (in 1 Corinthians 1:8), he couldn't have meant it to be an absolute fact with no exceptions when he said in verse 3, "Rulers are not a terror to good conduct . . . Do good, and you will receive their praise." This verse and the next one must be a general statement of how governments should and often do function. Paul simply does not have in view the problem of evil governments. Instead he has in view a good government in which doing good deeds will generally find approval and doing evil will generally be punished.

If this is correct, then it will no longer be possible to insist that Christians should always be subject to the governing authorities. As long as authorities punish only what is evil and praise only what is good, submission to God will always conform to submission to the authorities."

And when he says "As long as the authorities punish what is evil and praise only what is good" that doesn't mean your definitions of good and evil, but God's.

 

[Skylar]

It's also true and you have to know that. When was the time, any time that you saw any action for violating a personal right to love and acceptance?

What are you talking about?

You might find a family reprehensible for turning away a child but there is nothing to stop them from doing it.

Eh, you have parenting all wrong pal. There are Christians here who want to preserve the "family unit" as it were. Here you are wanting to tear it apart because one member is gay.

Family's family. I don't understand why you would simply throw your gay family member out on the street for being gay.

I think Tipsy really is just trolling.

But his promotion of hatred is so all over the place its hard to tell.

It's perplexing how I've not been accused of "promoting hatred" when I make an argument for religious freedom. Am I?

No, that's the standard recitation of authoritarians seeking to eliminate Christians from tbe face of the earth.

Kosher......you can believe whatever you want. It just doesn't exempt you from the law.

But as I explained to Templar earlier.....your ilk have to exaggerate to a comically ludicrous degree in order to discuss your argument. The odds of someone being sued under PA laws for discrimination against gays is orders of magnitude less than being struck by lightning or winning the lottery. Yet you shrilly insist that its an attempt to 'eliminate Christians from the face of earth'.

These types of panty shitting hysterics may play well among your ilk. But outside the right wing echo chamber, they appear mentally unhinged.

 

[Skylar]

And why is it people only acknowledge any merit the Bible has when it somehow agrees with their opinion?

Probably for the same reason that Kim Davis refused to allow licenses for same sex marriages to be issued by the clerk's office she headed.....but had no problem allowing marriage licenses be issued for those who had already been divorced and were attempting to remarry. Like herself. Despite the Bible explicitly denouncing divorce. And never so much as mentioning same sex marriage.

The Bible is largely a moral Rorschach test. With Grand Inquisitor Torquemada and Mother Teresa using the exact same book to justify their beliefs.....by emphasizing one passage over another.

 

[bodecea]

Christians who follow the law- as the New Testament commands them to- have no religious objection to following the law

Romans 13New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Obey Those in Authority
13 All of you must obey those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God. 2 So whoever opposes the authorities opposes leaders whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged. 3 If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don’t want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right, and you will be praised. 4 The one in authority serves God for your good. But if you do wrong, watch out! Rulers don’t carry a sword for no reason at all. They serve God. And God is carrying out his anger through them. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong. 5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.

There is no Christian scholar on the planet gonna claim that God chooses politicians and blesses them with divine wisdom. ..

Why exactly do you not believe the New Testament?

I quoted two verses from the New Testament, but you don't seem to believe them either.

I am not a Christian.

I have no obligation to follow the New Testament- or attempt to reconcile my beliefs with what might be contradictory instructions.

As a Christian- how can you ignore Paul's clear instructions in the New Testament?

As a non Christian, why do you make a habit of quoting the Bible so much? How is it you can tell me how to follow my faith, while being an unbeliever like yourself?

And the last time I checked, it's the word of God, not the word of Paul.

It's Paul's letters...to the Romans..to the Corinthians, etc. How can one who supposedly studied the bible not know that?