Fast & Furious isn't going away

[oreo]

I can't say with 100 percent surity that was the intent of gunrunner when it was first started but I am 100 percent thats was obama's intent when he continued it.

Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So under the Obama administration they then create the F & F program--yeah right Obama intended to stay with the Gunrunner project bill--- So now you Obamabot's are mind readers--you know what his intent was--LOL?

Obama's intent was to create a blood diamond atmosphere in Mexico so he could ban semi-automatic weapons from being sold to American citizens in the U.S. That was his intent--and backfired on him--when an ATF agent blew the whistle.

Who the fuck are you calling an obamabot?






I said

I can't say with 100 percent surity that was the intent of gunrunner when it was first started but I am 100 percent thats was obama's intent when he continued it

And you said

I remember very clearly Obama--and Hillary Clinton accusing American citizens of delivering guns to Mexican drug cartels.

I still think this Fast and Furious program was a conduit intended to take away our rights to own guns--especially semi-automatic weapons. There is no other possible rational reason for the Fast and Furious program--other than that.

As I was saying, obama may not have started it but he used it for his on advancedment of his anti gun agenda

You just stated this:

As I was saying, obama may not have started it but he used it for his on advancedment of his anti gun agenda

Then who in the hell gave the order--to make certain that weapons from the Fast and Furious program ended up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels--and I will guarantee you id did NOT come from upper or lower management within the ATF. It was much higher than that. And as we always say--the BUCK stops right at the Oval office.

 

[Flagwavrusa]

If a Republican was in there right now,i'm positive the CNN,NBC,and NY Times nutters would be screeching for immediate Impeachment. This cover-up only makes this a much bigger tragedy. Heads need to roll on this one. In my opinion there is far too much blood on Holder's hands for him to continue on as Attorney General. Time for him to get the boot.

Are you fucking serious?

The LA Times has been covering this daily.

You guys have been linking to them.

Listening to you guys cry into your beer about the "liberal" media conspiracy get's really, really lame and just sounds like a convenient cop-out.

You guys keep ranting and raving about this, but I can't really find any degree of criminality. Stupidity, yes. Criminality not.

That's the fucking difference between this and Whitewater (The President's men breaking into his opponents campaign headquarters to steal information and then the President destroying evidence), Iran-Contra (The President's men selling arms, despite a ban from congress to a hostile Islamic theocracy in order to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua) or even Monica Lewinsky (though most people didn't really give a fuck that the president lied under oath about a blowjob as virtually every married man in the same position was somewhat sympathetic. You might not like it, but that's the truth).

As it stands, this was a botched/idiotic sting. If the DEA had put a bunch of coke on the street to try and catch drug sellers (which they do all the time) and some people had OD'd on it, no one would be bitching about it. You guys are just desperate to make something stick. People deserve to resign for this due to stupidity. However, until I see some sign of some sort of criminality on the part of the government, you guys just sound like a bunch of shrieking ninnies.

The arrests mentioned in the article have NOTHING to do with Fast and Furious. The professed goal of FAF was to bring down Mexican drug cartels by putting together a case against the big wigs. The article you cited makes it clear that the arrestees were not drug cartel kingpins:

"Yet after thousands of man hours and millions of dollars spent, only one of the 20 suspects remains behind bars. Most were released within 24 hours of their arrest. In the end, all prosecutors got was one middle man and a handful of straw buyers."

None of these arrests required allowing guns to flow into Mexico, all of those arrested were charged for acts committed here in America, and none of the FAF weapons recovered in Mexico were a factor.

These arrests in January 2011 were a DOJ publicity stunt that came a month after border patrol agent Brian Terry was killed and Holder knew the lid was going to be blown off FAF. He wanted to be able to say that FAF led to arrests and had actually accomplished something, to coverup the fact that the operation was not really performing a legitimate law enforcement purpose.

Pretty god damn obvious this was a scheme orchestrated in preparation for an assault on the second amendment.There was no monitoring of the chain of custody of these weapons when they disappeared into Mexico. The spike in crime was so dramatic the Mexican police thought the cartels were starting a civil war, and meanwhile gun control advocate Hilary Clinton is railing against American guns showing up at Mexican crime scenes.

You're either too stupid to connect the dots, or you're another Democrat sock puppet for whom the Obama regime is above the law.

 

[Flagwavrusa]

Hooboy...using that very same logic..no one was responsible for that officer's death except the dirtbag that shot him.

You're really out of your league here.

And the President had nothing to do with this "program". And it's a program no different then the ones I've put up for you. Yet this is the only one you find fault with..

Wonder why?

Uh, no, not the same at all, really.

The dirtbag who steals the car was looking to steal a car that day. He just took the one that was easiest to steal. Then he ran instead of pulling over, and hit that nice lady.

Obama provided weapons to the Cartels. Their goal was to PROVE that weapons from the US were finding their way into Mexico, by dumping weapons into the place.

The threw gasoline onto a fire, and now it's burned them.

Not to worry, though. Obama will be voted out of office long before he's impeached for it. So he has that. Then he can pardon Holder and everyone else involved on his last day in office.

Lunacy.

Again..you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

The BATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[2]

Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before you try to re-write history you first might want to check your facts.

Project Gunrunner, started under Bush, had ATF agents surveil gun stores and arrest illegal buyers as they walked out the door with the weapons. Lives were saved.

Fast and Furious, started under Obama, ordered ATF agents to allow straw buyers to illegally purchase weapons from gun stores unimpeded and sell the guns to agents of Mexican cartels, who were then allowed to transport the weapons untraced into Mexico where they were used in drug gang violence that killed hundreds.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So under the Obama administration they then create the F & F program--yeah right Obama intended to stay with the Gunrunner project bill--- So now you Obamabot's are mind readers--you know what his intent was--LOL?

Obama's intent was to create a blood diamond atmosphere in Mexico so he could ban semi-automatic weapons from being sold to American citizens in the U.S. That was his intent--and backfired on him--when an ATF agent blew the whistle.

Who the fuck are you calling an obamabot?






I said



And you said



As I was saying, obama may not have started it but he used it for his on advancedment of his anti gun agenda

You just stated this:

As I was saying, obama may not have started it but he used it for his on advancedment of his anti gun agenda

Then who in the hell gave the order--to make certain that weapons from the Fast and Furious program ended up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels--and I will guarantee you id did NOT come from upper or lower management within the ATF. It was much higher than that. And as we always say--the BUCK stops right at the Oval office.

obama is the president now he could have shut the operation down. As I said and don't make me repeat myself, the intent of this operation has been misused by the obama administration. obama is or was using it for the purpose to introduce more gun control measures, and the ultimate goal of another gun ban. He knew guns from the U.S. were going to Mexico because his administration was allowing it, he could have shut the operation down but didn’t, all too advance his gun grabbing agenda. Remember “don’t let a good crisis go to waste." Remember his speeches reguarding this back in 2009?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So under the Obama administration they then create the F & F program--yeah right Obama intended to stay with the Gunrunner project bill--- So now you Obamabot's are mind readers--you know what his intent was--LOL?

Obama's intent was to create a blood diamond atmosphere in Mexico so he could ban semi-automatic weapons from being sold to American citizens in the U.S. That was his intent--and backfired on him--when an ATF agent blew the whistle.

Who the fuck are you calling an obamabot?






I said



And you said

I remember very clearly Obama--and Hillary Clinton accusing American citizens of delivering guns to Mexican drug cartels.

I still think this Fast and Furious program was a conduit intended to take away our rights to own guns--especially semi-automatic weapons. There is no other possible rational reason for the Fast and Furious program--other than that.

As I was saying, obama may not have started it but he used it for his on advancedment of his anti gun agenda

Oreo has serious problems with reading comprehension. He can't figure out who his friends are.

I know, he's fucking confusing the hell out of me, bouncing all over the place. He sounds like a gun grabber one time and pro gun the next time.

 

[sealaw]

obama is the president now he could have shut the operation down. As I said and don't make me repeat myself, the intent of this operation has been misused by the obama administration. obama is or was using it for the purpose to introduce more gun control measures, and the ultimate goal of another gun ban. He knew guns from the U.S. were going to Mexico because his administration was allowing it, he could have shut the operation down but didn’t, all too advance his gun grabbing agenda. Remember “don’t let a good crisis go to waste." Remember his speeches reguarding this back in 2009?

You are exactly correct - F&F was implemented with the intent to further erode 2A rights.

I would remind everyone - the bolded quote actually belongs to Rahm Emanuel...and I firmly believe he and Holder, with BO's blessing, contrived this scheme when Rahm was still CoS - this fits his Chicago Thug Tactic profile to a "T".

There is no question that BO and the WH staff were and are fully aware of this program in its entirety. The email trail now shows several communications to a NSC staffer inside the WH. Not to mention that SEVERAL OTHER federal agencies have admitted to "supporting" roles in this fiasco - the DEA, FBI, DHS & DOJ - as well as ATF. This alone proves that decisions about F&F were being made at the top, and not just by hapless ATF agents in the field.

Further - there is also no question that the motive was to erode gun rights. Remember BO's statement to Sarah Brady - about pursuing further gun control measures "under the radar?"

So - only those poor misguided souls who are hopelessly enamored with BO and the liberal anti-gun agenda would suggest another motive, or that the scheme is isolated from the WH and Holder in DOJ.

They are all treasonous criminals - and prison is too good for them.

 

[geauxtohell]

What "good" were they intending? I see no possible "good" outcome by funneling weapons into the hands of murderers. When you can come up with a possible "good" they were hoping to accomplish by all means do so. I am a firm follower of Mr. Occam. So according to Occam what possible outcome could they possibly have been hoping for?

To catch the Gringos that were supplying the guns to the cartel.

As it turns out, our gun laws in this country are so lax, the "gun runners" were a bunch of rube kids that had nothing to lose and weren't worth prosecuting.

Go figure.

The 2nd Amendment. Dig it.

I tell you what. I'll be all sour on the Holder crew if you admit that the 2nd amendment is a fucking joke that allows for the major trafficking of weapons from our country.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get your easy hard-on with our permissive weapons laws or you bemoan the fact that the only fucking thing in this country we still export are firearms.

To catch gringos commiting crimes you have to gather evidence. There was ZERO attempt to gather evidence. The only thing the FEDS did was allow known felons to purchase weapons and ship them off to Mexico. Once the guns were out of the store they were in the wind. There was no way to tell where the went until they showed up at a crime scene.

Now, think real hard...real hard...what possible benefit is that for anyone? Tell me who can possibly benefit from that. Other then the murderers that is. They enjoyed the hell out of it.

There was obviously some evidence gathered as 80 "straw men" were arrested. They obviously bungled this whole thing.

To me it seems obvious that the ATF had no real clue about how the guns were flowing. I think they were expecting to catch some big fish that were in charge of running the guns. As it turns out, the cartels are smarter then that. They just get kids to purchase the guns.

That doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy.

So for your last question, I can't answer. Neither can you. This could span the scope of everything from a botched sting to some sort of goofy conspiracy. I am going to trend towards the former though.

And it is in that question where the sillyness inherent to this topic lies. You have people claiming this was an assault on the 2nd Amendment, even though that makes absolutely no sense.

I mean, logically, I can't even conceive of a good conspiracy theory where the administration would want to "attack the second amendment" through this.

"Gunrunner" has been going on a long time. They just botched this particular facet of it.

 

[geauxtohell]

That doesn't make sense. They can get better guns cheaper and with less hassle from the Caribbean or other South American country's.

And I am sure they do. They also get them from the other side of the border. It's a lot faster. The ATF knows it and has been trying to interdict it since "Gunrunner" was started in Loredo in 2005.

 

[geauxtohell]

Are you READING any of these links? It wasn't average law abiding citizens that own guns-- that were delivering weapons to Mexican drug cartels--it was "straw buyers" that the ATF (under Eric Holder) SET up to do.

Go do your homework and then you can make informed replies.

The intent was to arrest and "prosecute" Straw buyers and figure out who they were buying for and from. It's the exact same way a narcotics case is made. The law enforcement gets their hooks into a low level dealer to get them to roll over on all their other associates.

Are you reading my links? You claimed not "straw men" were arrested. That is not true. I provided you with the link. You have ignored it.

Don't lecture me on "informed replies".

 

[geauxtohell]

To catch the Gringos that were supplying the guns to the cartel.

As it turns out, our gun laws in this country are so lax, the "gun runners" were a bunch of rube kids that had nothing to lose and weren't worth prosecuting.

Go figure.

The 2nd Amendment. Dig it.

I tell you what. I'll be all sour on the Holder crew if you admit that the 2nd amendment is a fucking joke that allows for the major trafficking of weapons from our country.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get your easy hard-on with our permissive weapons laws or you bemoan the fact that the only fucking thing in this country we still export are firearms.

To catch gringos commiting crimes you have to gather evidence. There was ZERO attempt to gather evidence. The only thing the FEDS did was allow known felons to purchase weapons and ship them off to Mexico. Once the guns were out of the store they were in the wind. There was no way to tell where the went until they showed up at a crime scene.

Now, think real hard...real hard...what possible benefit is that for anyone? Tell me who can possibly benefit from that. Other then the murderers that is. They enjoyed the hell out of it.

Holy crap do you liberals ever READ a link? We know of the names of the straw buyers--in fact we know where they live--and obviously if they had a criminal record they would have never been able to purchase A GUN from a gun shop owner. The ATF set them up--and one ATF agent turned out to be the whistle blower in this operation--that is also backed up by gun shop owners.

And the smoking gun--is the weapon-- that was born out of the Fast and Furious program--that killed a United States Federal Agent.

Geez--this is BIGGER than the outing of Valeri Plume isn't it--- You liberals are freakin out over it.

Westwall is right. Your reading comprehension sucks to the degree that you can't even figure our who is arguing on your side.

I am starting to lose hope that you are going to bring much to the table on this. However, by all means, keep screaming about "conspiracy!".

 

[geauxtohell]

Ya Just gotta wonder about this..

Law enforcement has ALL sorts of dodgy tactics that wind up killing innocent people.

Like:
-No knock warrants.
-Undercovers buying and selling drugs.
-Undercovers in general (No identification making arrests)
-Law inforcement lying to suspects.
-Use of informants.
-Use of items bait cars and other items to entrap criminals.

And a myriad of other things that go horribly wrong a good amount of times.

NOT ONE PEEP from conservatives.

In fact..if any of this is brought up..Conservatives defend the government use of these tactics.

NOW..to track guns..under the Obama administration..it's a "problem".

Wonder why..

Yes. Congratulations conservatives. Your conservative courts just basically took the concept of search and seizure and flushed it.

Now if a cop knocks on your door and suspects you might be hiding evidence, they can kick the door in, search the premises, and make an arrest without a warrant.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-1272.pdf

Hardly a peep about this bum decision. Probably the worst since Kelo.

Your scenario leaves out one very important part of what happened. The police smelled marijuana. I'm sorry but if the police can smell pot from outside your residence or can plainly see it through the doorway then they don't need a warrant to enter, search the premises and make an arrest. And they didn't enter because the suspects were "hiding" evidence...they entered because it sounded like they were destroying it.

A friend of mine got busted on drug possession charges because when the police responded to a loud party complaint they could smell pot being smoked inside the apartment. They didn't need a warrant to enter and his arrest was upheld on appeal.

The crucial legal issue was if the presumption that evidence was being destroyed gave the police the latitude to enter and conduct search and seizure without a warrant.

The court states it does.

However, I don't see this as being a victory for civil liberties. It allows unscrupulous cops to enter any residence without a warrant on subjective issues such as "I smelled what I thought to be MJ and then heard what I thought to be the destruction of evidence. So then we kicked down the door and didn't find any MJ but did a search and found cocaine, which is what the defendant was charged with possession of."

 

[geauxtohell]

Anyone with an IQ of 65 or higher would realize that.

Well--you must have an IQ of 10--because there was no program called Fast and Furious in 2005--that was the Gunrunners bill--that was specifically written to stop guns from going over the border--

and not delivering guns to the Mexican drug cartels--

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? You are contridicting yourself

How the worm has turned on obama

I remember very clearly Obama--and Hillary Clinton accusing American citizens of delivering guns to Mexican drug cartels.

I still think this Fast and Furious program was a conduit intended to take away our rights to own guns--especially semi-automatic weapons. There is no other possible rational reason for the Fast and Furious program--other than that.

What the fuck dude?

I don't like you, and I don't agree with you; but allow me to save you some time and trouble with Oreo.

His reading comprehension skills suck to the degree that he is attacking posters that actually agree with him.

 

[geauxtohell]

The arrests mentioned in the article have NOTHING to do with Fast and Furious. The professed goal of FAF was to bring down Mexican drug cartels by putting together a case against the big wigs. The article you cited makes it clear that the arrestees were not drug cartel kingpins:

How does arresting the "straw men" in the FAF have "nothing to do with FAF"? Obviously the arrests were small fish. I never claimed otherwise. Furthermore, If the stated goal of FAF by the ATF is to "bring down Mexican drug cartels", they've got a jurisdictional problem. The point of the FAF was, like gunrunner, to try and figure out how the Mexican Cartels were getting weapons from the US and then put a stop to it.

"Yet after thousands of man hours and millions of dollars spent, only one of the 20 suspects remains behind bars. Most were released within 24 hours of their arrest. In the end, all prosecutors got was one middle man and a handful of straw buyers."

None of these arrests required allowing guns to flow into Mexico, all of those arrested were charged for acts committed here in America, and none of the FAF weapons recovered in Mexico were a factor.

They would have to be charged with "acts committed here in America". You understand the ATF can't cross the border and start arresting Mexican citizens, right?

These arrests in January 2011 were a DOJ publicity stunt that came a month after border patrol agent Brian Terry was killed and Holder knew the lid was going to be blown off FAF. He wanted to be able to say that FAF led to arrests and had actually accomplished something, to coverup the fact that the operation was not really performing a legitimate law enforcement purpose.

Pure speculation on your part. Furthermore, FAF was certainly a legitimate law enforcement purpose. Trying to prevent the illegal sale and trafficking of weapons is inherent to the ATF's mission.

Pretty god damn obvious this was a scheme orchestrated in preparation for an assault on the second amendment.There was no monitoring of the chain of custody of these weapons when they disappeared into Mexico. The spike in crime was so dramatic the Mexican police thought the cartels were starting a civil war, and meanwhile gun control advocate Hilary Clinton is railing against American guns showing up at Mexican crime scenes.

If you are paranoid. How can anyone make a legitimate case about changing the gun laws in this country based on the fact that the Mexican border is a war zone right now? It's idiotic. No one is coming after your precious guns.

You're either too stupid to connect the dots, or you're another Democrat sock puppet for whom the Obama regime is above the law.

Show me what law has been broken.

 

[westwall]

To catch the Gringos that were supplying the guns to the cartel.

As it turns out, our gun laws in this country are so lax, the "gun runners" were a bunch of rube kids that had nothing to lose and weren't worth prosecuting.

Go figure.

The 2nd Amendment. Dig it.

I tell you what. I'll be all sour on the Holder crew if you admit that the 2nd amendment is a fucking joke that allows for the major trafficking of weapons from our country.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get your easy hard-on with our permissive weapons laws or you bemoan the fact that the only fucking thing in this country we still export are firearms.

To catch gringos commiting crimes you have to gather evidence. There was ZERO attempt to gather evidence. The only thing the FEDS did was allow known felons to purchase weapons and ship them off to Mexico. Once the guns were out of the store they were in the wind. There was no way to tell where the went until they showed up at a crime scene.

Now, think real hard...real hard...what possible benefit is that for anyone? Tell me who can possibly benefit from that. Other then the murderers that is. They enjoyed the hell out of it.

There was obviously some evidence gathered as 80 "straw men" were arrested. They obviously bungled this whole thing.

To me it seems obvious that the ATF had no real clue about how the guns were flowing. I think they were expecting to catch some big fish that were in charge of running the guns. As it turns out, the cartels are smarter then that. They just get kids to purchase the guns.

That doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy.

So for your last question, I can't answer. Neither can you. This could span the scope of everything from a botched sting to some sort of goofy conspiracy. I am going to trend towards the former though.

And it is in that question where the sillyness inherent to this topic lies. You have people claiming this was an assault on the 2nd Amendment, even though that makes absolutely no sense.

I mean, logically, I can't even conceive of a good conspiracy theory where the administration would want to "attack the second amendment" through this.

"Gunrunner" has been going on a long time. They just botched this particular facet of it.

80 arrested, and exactly how many are sitting in prison doing long sentences? Oh yeah, none. In fact as the previous poster pointed out, all but one were released within 24 hours. You are pissing up a rope, and it's a long way up buckaroo.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well--you must have an IQ of 10--because there was no program called Fast and Furious in 2005--that was the Gunrunners bill--that was specifically written to stop guns from going over the border--

and not delivering guns to the Mexican drug cartels--

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? You are contridicting yourself

I remember very clearly Obama--and Hillary Clinton accusing American citizens of delivering guns to Mexican drug cartels.

I still think this Fast and Furious program was a conduit intended to take away our rights to own guns--especially semi-automatic weapons. There is no other possible rational reason for the Fast and Furious program--other than that.

What the fuck dude?

I don't like you, and I don't agree with you; but allow me to save you some time and trouble with Oreo.

His reading comprehension skills suck to the degree that he is attacking posters that actually agree with him.

What got me was he called me an obamabot.

 

[geauxtohell]

To catch gringos commiting crimes you have to gather evidence. There was ZERO attempt to gather evidence. The only thing the FEDS did was allow known felons to purchase weapons and ship them off to Mexico. Once the guns were out of the store they were in the wind. There was no way to tell where the went until they showed up at a crime scene.

Now, think real hard...real hard...what possible benefit is that for anyone? Tell me who can possibly benefit from that. Other then the murderers that is. They enjoyed the hell out of it.

There was obviously some evidence gathered as 80 "straw men" were arrested. They obviously bungled this whole thing.

To me it seems obvious that the ATF had no real clue about how the guns were flowing. I think they were expecting to catch some big fish that were in charge of running the guns. As it turns out, the cartels are smarter then that. They just get kids to purchase the guns.

That doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy.

So for your last question, I can't answer. Neither can you. This could span the scope of everything from a botched sting to some sort of goofy conspiracy. I am going to trend towards the former though.

And it is in that question where the sillyness inherent to this topic lies. You have people claiming this was an assault on the 2nd Amendment, even though that makes absolutely no sense.

I mean, logically, I can't even conceive of a good conspiracy theory where the administration would want to "attack the second amendment" through this.

"Gunrunner" has been going on a long time. They just botched this particular facet of it.

80 arrested, and exactly how many are sitting in prison doing long sentences? Oh yeah, none. In fact as the previous poster pointed out, all but one were released within 24 hours. You are pissing up a rope, and it's a long way up buckaroo.

Like I said, I never claimed this was an effective operation. Just that it isn't a criminal conspiracy to mess with the 2nd amendment or whatever else people have themselves worked into a frenzy over.

 

[BoycottTheday]

Just that it isn't a criminal conspiracy to mess with the 2nd amendment or whatever else people have themselves worked into a frenzy over.

Wrong answer, its actually more than that, now you can stick your head back in the sand.

 

[westwall]

The arrests mentioned in the article have NOTHING to do with Fast and Furious. The professed goal of FAF was to bring down Mexican drug cartels by putting together a case against the big wigs. The article you cited makes it clear that the arrestees were not drug cartel kingpins:

How does arresting the "straw men" in the FAF have "nothing to do with FAF"? Obviously the arrests were small fish. I never claimed otherwise. Furthermore, If the stated goal of FAF by the ATF is to "bring down Mexican drug cartels", they've got a jurisdictional problem. The point of the FAF was, like gunrunner, to try and figure out how the Mexican Cartels were getting weapons from the US and then put a stop to it.

"Yet after thousands of man hours and millions of dollars spent, only one of the 20 suspects remains behind bars. Most were released within 24 hours of their arrest. In the end, all prosecutors got was one middle man and a handful of straw buyers."

None of these arrests required allowing guns to flow into Mexico, all of those arrested were charged for acts committed here in America, and none of the FAF weapons recovered in Mexico were a factor.

They would have to be charged with "acts committed here in America". You understand the ATF can't cross the border and start arresting Mexican citizens, right?



Pure speculation on your part. Furthermore, FAF was certainly a legitimate law enforcement purpose. Trying to prevent the illegal sale and trafficking of weapons is inherent to the ATF's mission.

Pretty god damn obvious this was a scheme orchestrated in preparation for an assault on the second amendment.There was no monitoring of the chain of custody of these weapons when they disappeared into Mexico. The spike in crime was so dramatic the Mexican police thought the cartels were starting a civil war, and meanwhile gun control advocate Hilary Clinton is railing against American guns showing up at Mexican crime scenes.

If you are paranoid. How can anyone make a legitimate case about changing the gun laws in this country based on the fact that the Mexican border is a war zone right now? It's idiotic. No one is coming after your precious guns.

You're either too stupid to connect the dots, or you're another Democrat sock puppet for whom the Obama regime is above the law.

Show me what law has been broken.

Actually his points are well founded. Nothing you have said or links that you have posted to, counter any of his points. I am not prepared to accuse the WH of a conspiricy to undermine the 2nd Ammendment yet. Too much of what is being used to support that contention is based on hearsay.

However, your contention that it is simply a case of incompetence doesn't even come close to describing what has happened. There is a conspiricy in operation, (Holder has admitted to that publicly by his very statements both before and after the operation came to light, it may only be within the doors of the DOJ but a conspiricy todestroy evidence is absolutely under way, a conspiricy to deny information to a Congressional review is absolutley underway, a conspiricy to make agents unavailable to Congress is certainly underway) the scope and goal is what is in question.

If you have any care for this country then you should consider that rather then your support for your political party. This was criminal behavior commited by our DOJ on a grand scale and innocent citizens as well as our own law enforcement agent have been murdered because of it. I hope even a political fundamentalist such as yourself can see that.

 

[Salt Jones]

Hurry, go buy more ammo. I own a lot of ATK stock and they own Federal Premium. Obama's election bought my car. How's that stockpiled ammo holding up?

 

[geauxtohell]

Just that it isn't a criminal conspiracy to mess with the 2nd amendment or whatever else people have themselves worked into a frenzy over.

Wrong answer, its actually more than that, now you can stick your head back in the sand.

"Wrong answer"? What are you, a Drill Sergeant? LMFAO.

As much as I admire your insistence that you are correct, I am not going to simply say: "Gee, fella, you're opinion must be right because you are so adamant about it!".