Failures of Empire

[Tommy Tainant]

Ghosts of Empire: what Kwasi Kwartengâs book tells us about him

A 2010 book on the British empire by the man set to be chancellor shows a very different worldview to that of some of his Tory colleagues

www.theguardian.com

Kwarteng is a supporter of Liz truss . He had an affair with her once and is now tipped to bethe next chancellor.

His book is critical of the Empire, a stance unlikely to win him any friends in theextreme right tory party.

That makes his crirticisms all the more valid. Its a shame he has given up on this in pursuit of power.

The failures of the Empire should not be glossed over.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Ghosts of Empire: what Kwasi Kwartengâs book tells us about him

A 2010 book on the British empire by the man set to be chancellor shows a very different worldview to that of some of his Tory colleagues

www.theguardian.com

Kwarteng is a supporter of Liz truss . He had an affair with her once and is now tipped to bethe next chancellor.

His book is critical of the Empire, a stance unlikely to win him any friends in theextreme right tory party.

That makes his crirticisms all the more valid. Its a shame he has given up on this in pursuit of power.

The failures of the Empire should not be glossed over.

Is it only the "extreme right" as you characterized it that desires (or even deems) a UK Empire? Are you aware of U.K history?

Furthermore, an empire isn't a pursuit one can just will or anoint with a paper title, especially in 2022. You have to innovate, attract top talent, have reasonable but not excessive government, civil liberties and, primarily excel economically which ensure soft and hard power.

If Britain doesn't thrive economically, the idea of an empire is fools gold anyway and a disingenuous title.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Is it only the "extreme right" as you characterized it that desires (or even deems) a UK Empire? Are you aware of U.K history?

Furthermore, an empire isn't a pursuit one can just will or anoint with a paper title, especially in 2022. You have to innovate, attract top talent, have reasonable but not excessive government, civil liberties and, primarily excel economically which ensure soft and hard power.

If Britain doesn't thrive economically, the idea of an empire is fools gold anyway and a disingenuous title.

Why would we want an empire. Britain has already fucked up the world once.

nb This thread is not pro empire

 

[Frankeneinstein]

The failures of the Empire should not be glossed over.

Oh I think the residual voices of failure in contemporary brits is enough to dull or blunt the sheen of even gold tommy...I wouldn't worry too much about the waning of self destruction either. It appears to be right on course!

 

[shockedcanadian]

Why would we want an empire. Britain has already fucked up the world once.

nb This thread is not pro empire

You provide a backhand to the "empire" though and suggest it's appealing to the extreme right. It's not just their objective is my point and in 2022 it's not an accurate description for ANY party in the U.K. The former British Empire has been in decline for such a long duration that it would be a stretch to even apply the term in the present.

As it were, there is nothing wrong with an empire as long as it is well placed, in support of citizens freedoms/pursuits and benevolent in it's mechanisms.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

.....and just imagine, he is just a Kwasi Kwarteng, too.


Can you just imagine what he might be capable of if he were a full Kwarteng, instead?

 

[Sunni Man]

If it wasn't for the British extending their empire into savage lands and bringing civilization.
People like Kwasi Kwarteng would still be living in grass huts, smearing feces on their bodies to ward off mosquitos, and being chased by hungry lions.
Kwarteng should be kissing the feet of every British person he sees for rescuing his ancestors from living in poverty and savagery.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The idea of “Empire” in Britain is today completely predicated on Britain being a loyal lapdog of the U.S.A., and the American global ambition to maintain its domination of markets and geo-politics.

It is not just found among Tories but also among New Labour elements like Blair. Its economic content is the alliance of the “City of London” (and all the dirty money washed through its far flung Common Wealth ex-empire) with Wall Street. Its political expression is Brexit. It’s military expression is NATO.

 

[Mac-7]

The idea of “Empire” in Britain is today completely predicated on Britain being a loyal lapdog of the U.S.A., and the American global ambition to maintain its domination of markets and geo-politics.

It is not just found among Tories but also among New Labour elements like Blair. Its economic content is the alliance of the “City of London” (and all the dirty money washed through its far flung Common Wealth ex-empire) with Wall Street. Its political expression is Brexit. It’s military expression is NATO.

I wish Americans were dedicated to an empire

But most are as clueless as Tommy Tainant

Americans are divided into three groups today with only a minority wanting to put America first

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The idea of “Empire” in Britain is today completely predicated on Britain being a loyal lapdog of the U.S.A., and the American global ambition to maintain its domination of markets and geo-politics.

It is not just found among Tories but also among New Labour elements like Blair. Its economic content is the alliance of the “City of London” (and all the dirty money washed through its far flung Common Wealth ex-empire) with Wall Street. Its political expression is Brexit. It’s military expression is NATO.

The same people pining for lost empire have their equivalents in the US where they celebrate the confederacy.
It really is at that basic level. Thats why brexit.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If it wasn't for the British extending their empire into savage lands and bringing civilization.
People like Kwasi Kwarteng would still be living in grass huts, smearing feces on their bodies to ward off mosquitos, and being chased by hungry lions.
Kwarteng should be kissing the feet of every British person he sees for rescuing his ancestors from living in poverty and savagery.

Mr Kwartengs book points out the absurdity of that stance
Maybe these places would be better off without the interderence of stupid english colonials.

No empires were built with goodwill and the british empire was based on extraction. A sinful exercise.

 

[Sunni Man]

Mr Kwartengs book points out the absurdity of that stance

The traitor Kwasi Kwarteng wouldn't even know how to read or write if it wasn't for the largesse of the benevolent British Empire bestowing civilization and order onto the unwashed savages of many lands around the globe.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The traitor Kwasi Kwarteng wouldn't even know how to read or write if it wasn't for the largesse of the benevolent British Empire bestowing civilization and order onto the unwashed savages of many lands around the globe.

Yiu do know that Tarzan is a fantasy story ?

 

[Sunni Man]

Yiu do know that Tarzan is a fantasy story ?

True, but it's an allegory of a lone white man subduing and eventually ruling the dark continent.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I wish Americans were dedicated to an empire
But most are as clueless as Tommy Tainant
Americans are divided into three groups today with only a minority wanting to put America first

What sort of “U.S. Empire” are you promoting here? A military one? A Wall Street “financial empire” backed by sanctions and our military? Are you ready to fight more “endless wars” to maintain artificially U.S. global hegemony? Maybe your idea of putting “America First” means the U.S. should retrench to dominate only North, South and Central America, and leave the rest of the world to its own destiny?

The shallowness of MAGA sloganeering is clear to me. I am waiting for a better explanation of how building an “American Empire” and putting “America First” differs substantially from defending the “globalist” interests and needs of the U.S.A as interpreted by corporate, banking and geo-political “security state” elites.

It is important to differentiate the two if you want to be taken seriously. Not saying the Democrats do this — they most definitely don’t! Also not saying it is always easy to draw the line.

 

[Mac-7]

What sort of “U.S. Empire” are you promoting here?

It means having the strongest economy of any country on earth

We were foolish to embrace globalism at the expense of Made In America

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Ok, but then you are not speaking of an “Empire,” are you?

Do you think the U.S. can maintain its financial domination of the world without Wall Street, the Fed, the IMF, extraterritorial sanctions? Can we rebuild all our old industries without high tariffs? Should we even try? Shall we stop all trade with countries that have advantages like cheaper labor? Will you accept a multipolar world in which we may not always be “top dog”?

Not trying to put you or anybody on the spot here. Just pointing out that relying only on profit-making corporations and bankers — which got us into these problems — will not get us out of them. Some serious “industrial planning” and federal gov’t investment in new technologies & strategic industries is in my opinion necessary to keep our economy competitive with state capitalist economies like China — with its larger, hard working, studious, and increasingly well educated population.

Frankly, I believe most of our political leaders are sleepwalking the nation into another Cold War filled with proxy wars, risking another world war as well.

 

[Mushroom]

This is not "history", it seems to all be about current events and a current politician.

Seems more like this is a current events thread.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Actually, this OP is partly about a history book. I know few people actually read history books these days, and many assume they understand everything about a book just as soon as they can “pigeonhole” the author’s present day politics. That is a rather ignorant way to approach historical questions in general. Anyway, here are some reviews of this book:

Amazon product

 

[whitehall]

Liz Trust? Why in the world is Kwasi Kwarteng's opinion of the U.K.'s 19th century and 20th century political mess interesting in a U.S. history forum? Can't you find some Aussie or Kiwi or Canuk forum that is willing to discuss Brit history without clogging up a U.S. forum?