Failed by US Healthcare

[Harry Dresden]

Click here to support Help Devin Walk & Conquer Surfer's Myelopathy organized by Jim Morris

The extended family has rallied around Devin and the fight for his recovery is in full swing. We set up this GoFundMe page as a communication platform to ensure we keep all of Devin's family and friends up-to-date on his status, progress and recovery. As you can imagine, the Gildners will incur significant medical bills, additional living expenses and extensive travel costs over the coming months and potentially years. Any donations towards Devin's recovery and his family's needs are greatly appreciated. If you are unable to donate, prayers and good vibes are just as important!

In the developed world this young man would just have to focus on getting well.

tommy how come the original drummer for Iron Maiden who had MS had to have benefit concerts for him to help pay his medical bills?...is England not part of that "developed" world you mentioned?..

 

[Mindful]

Do you need me to start linking to all the failure of the NHS?

I don't think you do......

You can cherry pick horror stories from either system. In the US, 96,000 Americans die every year due to medical mistakes.

But on the metrics...

The British spend less
Their people are happier with their system than we are with ours
They live longer
Less of their babies die
nobody goes bankrupt because they got sick and lost their jobs.

You could always emigrate there. The weather is lovely.

 

[Mindful]

Not only that, British people go to India for hip replacement surgery, the waiting list being so long.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Not only that,

Americans flood into India for health treatment

You could always emigrate there. The weather is lovely.

 

[Blues Man]

None of that has anything to do with what I posted.

Um, yeah, it did. It's the tired old song of the dumb tools. "But if the Socialized medicine is so great, why do some rich people fly here to get treatment."

The answer is, THEY DON'T.

But lots of Americans who can't get insurance do go down to Mexico where they can pay for procedures out of pocket.

I think I know why you want a government job. Because you really don't want to work very hard but you want all the benefits.

I'd just be happy with an employer who didn't fuck me at every opportunity... You know, what we had until you shitheads got rid of the unions.

Then you picked a shitty Insurance co

I have been paying my own insurance since I was in my late 20's and have never once had any problems getting medical care

That's the point. I didn't pick it. My employer did. And I opted for the most expensive plan because I knew I was getting to the age where I'd have more medical issues than when I was in my 20's.

But Cigna pretty much fucked me over... because that's what big insurance does.

I'm sure it's you and not your employer that's the problem.

 

[Blues Man]

Then you picked a shitty employer.

They're all shitty. The best companies I worked for were owned by foreigners...

The question is, WHY DO WE LET OUR EMPLOYERS HAVE THIS KIND OF POWER OVER US?

I knew I was working for shitballs pretty early, but didn't want to change employers while I was undergoing medical treatment and have the next guy call it a "pre-existing condition".

Now, here's the thing. If we eliminated employer health insurance without doing single payer, the medical system would collapse in a few years. Young people wouldn't buy insurance and old folks couldn't afford it.

Work for yourself but then again you'd proibaby be a shitty boss so you'd wind up complaining about yourself

 

[JoeB131]

I don't know. Why do you?

It think it's because many people actually want to be slaves. That want to be owned.

Okay, I keep forgetting I am dealing with a Libertarian Child who thinks the world should work to his whims.

The reality is, if we all had to negotiate our health insurance on an individual basis, we'd be screwed. The biggest complaints against the insurance companies come from people who have to buy their policies on an individual level. They pay exhoribtant rates for shitty coverage and have no real recourse if the insurance company wants to do backsies.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sure it's you and not your employer that's the problem.

I realize personal attacks are all you have when you can't defend a bad system.

Work for yourself but then again you'd proibaby be a shitty boss so you'd wind up complaining about yourself

I do currently work for myself... that's not the point. The point is, when you get rid of unions and the government works for the rich and not working people, like it does now, it kind of sucks to be a working person.

When my boss at the company that changed my mind on politics screwed over my career, knowing that I couldn't change jobs when I had an operation coming up, he said, verbatim, "This is why I'm so glad I don't have to deal with a union!"

You see, here's the thing. If people voted their own economic interests, the Republicans would be gone, gone, gone. Deader than the Whigs and far more deserving.

What keeps STUPID people like you voting for them is they bring up all the God, Guns and Gays bullshit. With healthy dollups of racism.

 

[JoeB131]

You could always emigrate there. The weather is lovely.

Or we could curb stomp you bible thumping morons into the ground and fix this country.

 

[dblack]

I don't know. Why do you?

It think it's because many people actually want to be slaves. That want to be owned.

Okay, I keep forgetting I am dealing with a Libertarian Child who thinks the world should work to his whims.

"I realize personal attacks are all you have when you can't defend a bad system."

The reality is, if we all had to negotiate our health insurance on an individual basis, we'd be screwed. The biggest complaints against the insurance companies come from people who have to buy their policies on an individual level. They pay exhoribtant rates for shitty coverage and have no real recourse if the insurance company wants to do backsies.

The reality is you want a government that takes care of you like a child (or a slave). Even if that means giving up your liberty. I'll pass.

 

[JoeB131]

The reality is you want a government that takes care of you like a child (or a slave). Even if that means giving up your liberty. I'll pass.

Whenever one of you tools talks about "Liberty" or "Freedom" what you usually mean is, "the ability of those with money to abuse the rest of us".

That you are too dumb to realize this, or too brainwashed by Koch Brothers money, is kind of sad. You have no desire to live under anarchy, but you are happy to live under Plutocracy...

 

[dblack]

The reality is you want a government that takes care of you like a child (or a slave). Even if that means giving up your liberty. I'll pass.

Whenever one of you tools talks about "Liberty" or "Freedom" what you usually mean is, "the ability of those with money to abuse the rest of us".

That you are too dumb to realize this, or too brainwashed by Koch Brothers money, is kind of sad. You have no desire to live under anarchy, but you are happy to live under Plutocracy...

What you are too dumb to realize is the profound difference between economic power and political power. No matter how rich he is, Bill Gates can't force you to do anything against your will. You are always free to ignore him. You don't have that option with government.

If you don't like your insurance company, you can fire them. If you put government in charge of your insurance, you're stuck with whatever they serve up.

 

[JoeB131]

What you are too dumb to realize is the profound difference between economic power and political power. No matter how rich he is, Bill Gates can't force you to do anything against your will. You are always free to ignore him. You don't have that option with government.

Quite the contrary, my ability to live free of Bill Gates is limited. I mean, yeah, I could refuse to buy microsoft products... but they touch every aspect of my life because he's been allowed a monopoly. He can buy and sell politicians at a whim. And there isn't a damned thing I can do about it.

ON the other hand, I have an option with government. I can vote those bastards out of office.

Right now, we are in a wonderful fight in my home town. Some private company is trying to buy a hotel and convert it into a drug rehab center. This would screw our town for a number of reasons (Lost revenue, increased crime, strain on town services.)

Funny thing happened. The people spoke up, and the politicians who were keen on this idea aren't so keen on it anymore. They like getting re-elected and listened.

f you don't like your insurance company, you can fire them.

No, I can't. Not if I'm getting it through my job. More to the point, what's the point of firing someone AFTER they've taken your money and provided nothing. That's fucking daft.

If you put government in charge of your insurance, you're stuck with whatever they serve up.

Which I'm fine with, as they have an incentive to serve up something pretty good, as they want to keep getting votes.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yes, like it or not, government exists to serve We the people, not just the billionaires. It remains accountable to Us, unlike the billionaires. But you goofballs all know that full well. You just can't say it out loud.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Bill Gates can't force you to do anything against your will. You are always free to ignore him. You don't have that option with government.

You can ignore your taxes and pay a penalty later. Perhaps go to jail for a stretch. You can break the speed limit until caught, etc. You cannot make the govt serve you personally unless you're Bill Gates, or Jeff Bezos, or some other billionaire. Hell, even a fake "billionaire" like Trump has a major Party and a lot of major media transfixed, waiting for his next Tweet.

However, the govt must serve you in general else risk being voted out or sued. Not Bill Gates. The entire point of hiding behind a corporation is not getting sued. And who will you rely upon should you need to sue govt or anyone? Bill Gates?

Actually the irony about Bill Gates in particular is that he's been doing nothing for MicroSoft but fucking them for $20 billion/yr for at least a decade now. That they can still manage to show a profit is impressive.

 

[Grumblenuts]

tommy how come the original drummer for Iron Maiden who had MS had to have benefit concerts for him to help pay his medical bills?...is England not part of that "developed" world you mentioned?..

Had to? Sorry, but that sounds like mostly {cough} BS to me:

“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.

Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden.

What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.

Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal;

{...snip...}

When the band found out about Clive’s multiple sclerosis they stepped in and helped they best way they knew how – by playing for him. Their help has transformed his life.

“They bought me a vehicle...” He pauses. “Meeeeeeeemes, what car is it again?” he shouts. “We call it the Clivemobile. It’s a Volkswagen Caddy with blacked-out windows. It’s like an American gangster’s car. They’ve put concerts on to raise money, not just for me but for other people with MS. They put a stair-lift in our house. Sometimes I’ll go up and down the stairs, looking at the gold and platinum records on the stairwell. Ha ha.” Better than that, and what he appreciates most of all, Mimi says when Clive is out of earshot, is that they involve him. “They say if ever you need anything, just ring, just call,” she says. “Whenever they play in London, Clive knows that he’s only got to pick up the phone and he’s got two of the best tickets in the house. It might not sound like much, but it is to Clive. Finally, to him, it’s like his achievements – who he is and what he did – are being recognised.”

But, um, nice (cough) try.

 

[Harry Dresden]

tommy how come the original drummer for Iron Maiden who had MS had to have benefit concerts for him to help pay his medical bills?...is England not part of that "developed" world you mentioned?..

Had to? Sorry, but that sounds like mostly {cough} BS to me:

“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.

Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden.

What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.

Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal;

{...snip...}

When the band found out about Clive’s multiple sclerosis they stepped in and helped they best way they knew how – by playing for him. Their help has transformed his life.

“They bought me a vehicle...” He pauses. “Meeeeeeeemes, what car is it again?” he shouts. “We call it the Clivemobile. It’s a Volkswagen Caddy with blacked-out windows. It’s like an American gangster’s car. They’ve put concerts on to raise money, not just for me but for other people with MS. They put a stair-lift in our house. Sometimes I’ll go up and down the stairs, looking at the gold and platinum records on the stairwell. Ha ha.” Better than that, and what he appreciates most of all, Mimi says when Clive is out of earshot, is that they involve him. “They say if ever you need anything, just ring, just call,” she says. “Whenever they play in London, Clive knows that he’s only got to pick up the phone and he’s got two of the best tickets in the house. It might not sound like much, but it is to Clive. Finally, to him, it’s like his achievements – who he is and what he did – are being recognised.”

But, um, nice (cough) try.

sorry i saw a interview with steve harris and he said they did the concerts for him because he was in deep debt because of his treatments and their expense on his family....so take it up with him....i figure he knows a little bit more than we do...

 

[dblack]

What you are too dumb to realize is the profound difference between economic power and political power. No matter how rich he is, Bill Gates can't force you to do anything against your will. You are always free to ignore him. You don't have that option with government.

Quite the contrary, my ability to live free of Bill Gates is limited. I mean, yeah, I could refuse to buy microsoft products... but they touch every aspect of my life because he's been allowed a monopoly. He can buy and sell politicians at a whim. And there isn't a damned thing I can do about it.

That's just not true, Joe. I haven't bought a Microsoft product in years. I "voted" Bill Gates out of my life by simply not doing business with him.

ON the other hand, I have an option with government. I can vote those bastards out of office.

Really? How'd that go last time? If you're relying on an election to get your way, your "say" is approximately 1 in 100,000,000. If you make your own decisions, and aren't relying on government to make them for you, your vote is the only one that matters.

f you don't like your insurance company, you can fire them.

No, I can't. Not if I'm getting it through my job.

You can get another job. Listen, a core plank of the liberal platform is this attempt to equate economic power with political power (because they want both). But the difference between the power a business has and the power of the government is profound. It's the difference between getting fired and getting thrown in prison.

More to the point, what's the point of firing someone AFTER they've taken your money and provided nothing. That's fucking daft.

If they've taken your money and provided you with nothing, sue them. I mean, that's not really what we're talking about here, but if your complaint is that insurance companies are committing fraud, I'm right there with you. Lock 'em up.

If you put government in charge of your insurance, you're stuck with whatever they serve up.

Which I'm fine with, as they have an incentive to serve up something pretty good, as they want to keep getting votes.

Dr. Trump will see you now.

 

[Grumblenuts]

tommy how come the original drummer for Iron Maiden who had MS had to have benefit concerts for him to help pay his medical bills?...is England not part of that "developed" world you mentioned?..

Had to? Sorry, but that sounds like mostly {cough} BS to me:

“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.

Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden.

What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.

Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal;

{...snip...}

When the band found out about Clive’s multiple sclerosis they stepped in and helped they best way they knew how – by playing for him. Their help has transformed his life.

“They bought me a vehicle...” He pauses. “Meeeeeeeemes, what car is it again?” he shouts. “We call it the Clivemobile. It’s a Volkswagen Caddy with blacked-out windows. It’s like an American gangster’s car. They’ve put concerts on to raise money, not just for me but for other people with MS. They put a stair-lift in our house. Sometimes I’ll go up and down the stairs, looking at the gold and platinum records on the stairwell. Ha ha.” Better than that, and what he appreciates most of all, Mimi says when Clive is out of earshot, is that they involve him. “They say if ever you need anything, just ring, just call,” she says. “Whenever they play in London, Clive knows that he’s only got to pick up the phone and he’s got two of the best tickets in the house. It might not sound like much, but it is to Clive. Finally, to him, it’s like his achievements – who he is and what he did – are being recognised.”

But, um, nice (cough) try.

sorry i saw a interview with steve harris and he said they did the concerts for him because he was in deep debt because of his treatments and their expense on his family....so take it up with him....i figure he knows a little bit more than we do...

Sorry, Steve is unavailable and was presumably responsible for sacking Clive for taking a little break when his father died, thus remains wracked with guilt in retrospect for that idiocy. Sounds like they were mainly jealous of his good looks and thus all the attention he got from the fans. What I quoted is from a family interview. I think they knew better and had less reason to embellish upon the truth.

 

[Grumblenuts]

You can get another job. Listen, a core plank of the liberal platform is this attempt to equate economic power with political power (because they want both). But the difference between the power a business has and the power of the government is profound. It's the difference between getting fired and getting thrown in prison.

Where, odds are, you'd at least get the healthcare you need. Stay, quit, or "get fired" - you're fucked without healthcare. Likely dead.

The Republican Healthcare Plan