F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[williepete]

the 30mm is pretty well worthless on soft targets.

WTFO?

You should see what a 100 round burst of PGU-13/B HEI will do to soft targets. It's a real crowd pleaser.

 

[westwall]

"Crowd pleaser" Depends on which crowd me thinks.....

 

[williepete]

"Crowd pleaser" Depends on which crowd me thinks.....

It was a squadron saying. Like "party mix" when describing a mixed drum of AP, TP and HEI.
Another crowd pleaser.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

 

[westwall]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

Soooooo, you're trying to tell us that 30mm is less effective than .50 cal machinegun. Sure you want to assert that?

BTW the explosion in the video below is from dynamite. Not from the bullets. The first 30 seconds are good. The rest of it is crap.






And then you have this. You wouldn't even see the .50 cal impacts from this distance. Nor would the bad guys even care.




And that's a good question about the USMC not using the A-10. That question has been asked for decades now. Here are six Marines that are thankful the A-10 was around to save their ass.

A-10 pilots honored for mission that saved Marines
a10-pilots-distinguished-flying-cross

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

Soooooo, you're trying to tell us that 30mm is less effective than .50 cal machinegun. Sure you want to assert that?

BTW the explosion in the video below is from dynamite. Not from the bullets. The first 30 seconds are good. The rest of it is crap.






And then you have this. You wouldn't even see the .50 cal impacts from this distance. Nor would the bad guys even care.




And that's a good question about the USMC not using the A-10. That question has been asked for decades now. Here are six Marines that are thankful the A-10 was around to save their ass.

A-10 pilots honored for mission that saved Marines
a10-pilots-distinguished-flying-cross

If the 50 is using HE rounds that is exactly what it looks like. No TNT needed.

Notice the calleteral damage of the 30 since it really can't be aimed that well. You want to see damage, let an AC do the same attack. He can hit each bad guy, leaving the buildings or take out everything in a 50 foot area.

For once, a real footage of an A-10 attack was presented. The last few were supposed to be of an A-10 but it was clearly and orbiting platform (AC-130 with it's 30s). The A-10 isn't used that much for CAS since it's range is just too short. Now, when was this footage shot? Was it DS1 or 2? or more current. The date it was posted was 2014. The A-10 was NOT operating at this time. It would have to be earlier than that taking it back to DS2 or earlier.

 

[I amso IR]

The only reason that I personally accept the recently released report that the A10 is once again being refitted and perhaps updated is that someone believes there is again the threat of conflict in Europe and a large armored plus artillery involvement by hostile forces involved with Russia. The A10 along with the AH64 had the primary job of defeating armor and artillery in that scenario of that theater. Ivan has always had huge quantities of both and they were and still are very deadly. Were that area of the world to go ballistic, once again, the A10 would without doubt, be nice to have. As well, the F35 would also be a huge asset with the advanced capabilities it has as well as the Gen 4 aircraft it will work with. With todays weapons which are available one can only the hope there will be an adequate supply of Class V supplies (Ammo) to keep all of the beasts supplied. Let's hope our bunkers are well stocked and the producers are able to produce. God only knows that we have used a huge amount of Class V ammunition on the mid east alone and that stuff and the folks who have to move and deliver it, does not grow on trees. I am no pilot but have provided ammunition for the better part of 20 years and it is not a piece of cake by any means.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The only reason that I personally accept the recently released report that the A10 is once again being refitted and perhaps updated is that someone believes there is again the threat of conflict in Europe and a large armored plus artillery involvement by hostile forces involved with Russia. The A10 along with the AH64 had the primary job of defeating armor and artillery in that scenario of that theater. Ivan has always had huge quantities of both and they were and still are very deadly. Were that area of the world to go ballistic, once again, the A10 would without doubt, be nice to have. As well, the F35 would also be a huge asset with the advanced capabilities it has as well as the Gen 4 aircraft it will work with. With todays weapons which are available one can only the hope there will be an adequate supply of Class V supplies (Ammo) to keep all of the beasts supplied. Let's hope our bunkers are well stocked and the producers are able to produce. God only knows that we have used a huge amount of Class V ammunition on the mid east alone and that stuff and the folks who have to move and deliver it, does not grow on trees. I am no pilot but have provided ammunition for the better part of 20 years and it is not a piece of cake by any means.

I don't find fault in what your wrote. The A-10 was designed to take out Amour. CAS was just an afterthought. The A-10 seems to me that it's to be used when you run out those million dollar weapons. Chances are, the other guy is going to be a little hurting for their own million dollar weapons to stop it. At this point, the Apache, AH-1Z, and a few others will be used. The problem with the A-10, there is a good chance it's going to be a one way mission. In the 70s, armor didn't shoot back that well. Now, every tank out there has become an AA by itself. You are right. the need for it as an anti armor is great and that is exactly why the depot level maintenance is going to be done. Otherwise, they were willing to let it die a slow and painful death.

 

[westwall]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

Soooooo, you're trying to tell us that 30mm is less effective than .50 cal machinegun. Sure you want to assert that?

BTW the explosion in the video below is from dynamite. Not from the bullets. The first 30 seconds are good. The rest of it is crap.






And then you have this. You wouldn't even see the .50 cal impacts from this distance. Nor would the bad guys even care.




And that's a good question about the USMC not using the A-10. That question has been asked for decades now. Here are six Marines that are thankful the A-10 was around to save their ass.

A-10 pilots honored for mission that saved Marines
a10-pilots-distinguished-flying-cross

If the 50 is using HE rounds that is exactly what it looks like. No TNT needed.

Notice the calleteral damage of the 30 since it really can't be aimed that well. You want to see damage, let an AC do the same attack. He can hit each bad guy, leaving the buildings or take out everything in a 50 foot area.

For once, a real footage of an A-10 attack was presented. The last few were supposed to be of an A-10 but it was clearly and orbiting platform (AC-130 with it's 30s). The A-10 isn't used that much for CAS since it's range is just too short. Now, when was this footage shot? Was it DS1 or 2? or more current. The date it was posted was 2014. The A-10 was NOT operating at this time. It would have to be earlier than that taking it back to DS2 or earlier.

Bullshit. A friend of mine owns a shitload of Raufos ammo at 46 dollars a round it's veeeeeery pricey. And it does nowhere near that amount of damage. You're full of shit. Accuracy of the A-10 depends on the pilot. Just like it does for the Spectre. A good pilot on a Spectre can place a 105mm through a open hatch. Same goes for the GAU-8. A good pilot can place all of them within the confines of a single tank. I was at Edwards AFB when they were first introducing the A-10 and they fired live at a tank out on the impact range during an airshow (they could do that back then) and the burst removed the rear half of the target M-48. As in totally gone. All 80 rounds impacted on the rear deck and obliterated it. The front half was still there.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

Soooooo, you're trying to tell us that 30mm is less effective than .50 cal machinegun. Sure you want to assert that?

BTW the explosion in the video below is from dynamite. Not from the bullets. The first 30 seconds are good. The rest of it is crap.






And then you have this. You wouldn't even see the .50 cal impacts from this distance. Nor would the bad guys even care.




And that's a good question about the USMC not using the A-10. That question has been asked for decades now. Here are six Marines that are thankful the A-10 was around to save their ass.

A-10 pilots honored for mission that saved Marines
a10-pilots-distinguished-flying-cross

If the 50 is using HE rounds that is exactly what it looks like. No TNT needed.

Notice the calleteral damage of the 30 since it really can't be aimed that well. You want to see damage, let an AC do the same attack. He can hit each bad guy, leaving the buildings or take out everything in a 50 foot area.

For once, a real footage of an A-10 attack was presented. The last few were supposed to be of an A-10 but it was clearly and orbiting platform (AC-130 with it's 30s). The A-10 isn't used that much for CAS since it's range is just too short. Now, when was this footage shot? Was it DS1 or 2? or more current. The date it was posted was 2014. The A-10 was NOT operating at this time. It would have to be earlier than that taking it back to DS2 or earlier.

Bullshit. A friend of mine owns a shitload of Raufos ammo at 46 dollars a round it's veeeeeery pricey. And it does nowhere near that amount of damage. You're full of shit. Accuracy of the A-10 depends on the pilot. Just like it does for the Spectre. A good pilot on a Spectre can place a 105mm through a open hatch. Same goes for the GAU-8. A good pilot can place all of them within the confines of a single tank. I was at Edwards AFB when they were first introducing the A-10 and they fired live at a tank out on the impact range during an airshow (they could do that back then) and the burst removed the rear half of the target M-48. As in totally gone. All 80 rounds impacted on the rear deck and obliterated it. The front half was still there.

I know a guy, a buddy to a buddy of mine, I once heard, it's true if it's on the internet. Pick one. I used the 50 and handled the 20 all day long. I also handled the 105. Guess which one would my choice? The 30 cals (notice plural) from an AC-130. If an A-10 is safe to operate in an area, then the AC is super safe and is more accurate and has a lot more firepower, endurance, range and more. It hasn't been until the last 10 years or so that they have allowed the AC to do close support. When I was with them, they were afraid that a degree or two off and it would wipe out the other side. The AC aquisition and aiming has come a hell of a long way and it can even be raining cats and dogs and it can still hit your breast pocket. And the AC can't be reached by manpads. Like I said, the A10 is better at anti armor but the bad guys are carrying some pretty nasty stuff these days to knock it out of the sky or damage it enough to send it home. The AF was slowly letting it die of old age but with the Russians pressing so hard with it's Armor then it's time to get it ready to do it's real job. There are only 287 of them left. Next year, there would have been around 250 left. With the Depot Level Maintenance, they can keep it at around 280 for a few years. But it's definately NOT CAS being the driving force. It's the Russians playing games right on Europes front porch.

 

[westwall]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

Soooooo, you're trying to tell us that 30mm is less effective than .50 cal machinegun. Sure you want to assert that?

BTW the explosion in the video below is from dynamite. Not from the bullets. The first 30 seconds are good. The rest of it is crap.






And then you have this. You wouldn't even see the .50 cal impacts from this distance. Nor would the bad guys even care.




And that's a good question about the USMC not using the A-10. That question has been asked for decades now. Here are six Marines that are thankful the A-10 was around to save their ass.

A-10 pilots honored for mission that saved Marines
a10-pilots-distinguished-flying-cross

If the 50 is using HE rounds that is exactly what it looks like. No TNT needed.

Notice the calleteral damage of the 30 since it really can't be aimed that well. You want to see damage, let an AC do the same attack. He can hit each bad guy, leaving the buildings or take out everything in a 50 foot area.

For once, a real footage of an A-10 attack was presented. The last few were supposed to be of an A-10 but it was clearly and orbiting platform (AC-130 with it's 30s). The A-10 isn't used that much for CAS since it's range is just too short. Now, when was this footage shot? Was it DS1 or 2? or more current. The date it was posted was 2014. The A-10 was NOT operating at this time. It would have to be earlier than that taking it back to DS2 or earlier.

Bullshit. A friend of mine owns a shitload of Raufos ammo at 46 dollars a round it's veeeeeery pricey. And it does nowhere near that amount of damage. You're full of shit. Accuracy of the A-10 depends on the pilot. Just like it does for the Spectre. A good pilot on a Spectre can place a 105mm through a open hatch. Same goes for the GAU-8. A good pilot can place all of them within the confines of a single tank. I was at Edwards AFB when they were first introducing the A-10 and they fired live at a tank out on the impact range during an airshow (they could do that back then) and the burst removed the rear half of the target M-48. As in totally gone. All 80 rounds impacted on the rear deck and obliterated it. The front half was still there.

I know a guy, a buddy to a buddy of mine, I once heard, it's true if it's on the internet. Pick one. I used the 50 and handled the 20 all day long. I also handled the 105. Guess which one would my choice? The 30 cals (notice plural) from an AC-130. If an A-10 is safe to operate in an area, then the AC is super safe and is more accurate and has a lot more firepower, endurance, range and more. It hasn't been until the last 10 years or so that they have allowed the AC to do close support. When I was with them, they were afraid that a degree or two off and it would wipe out the other side. The AC aquisition and aiming has come a hell of a long way and it can even be raining cats and dogs and it can still hit your breast pocket. And the AC can't be reached by manpads. Like I said, the A10 is better at anti armor but the bad guys are carrying some pretty nasty stuff these days to knock it out of the sky or damage it enough to send it home. The AF was slowly letting it die of old age but with the Russians pressing so hard with it's Armor then it's time to get it ready to do it's real job. There are only 287 of them left. Next year, there would have been around 250 left. With the Depot Level Maintenance, they can keep it at around 280 for a few years. But it's definately NOT CAS being the driving force. It's the Russians playing games right on Europes front porch.

I OWN a .50 silly boy. I have fired some of my friends Raufos ammo. It has 1/2 gram of RDX High Explosive. It's fun, but not all that impressive against anything harder than a car body. The 30mm HEI, on the other hand, contains 58 GRAMS of RDX.

You were spewing?

 

[I amso IR]

Two ounces of RDX, (58 grams) will certainly get the attention of an infantry soldier. Especially when delivered among seven other rounds of the same type and in an area of one hundred square feet. A pound of RDX is a load and super quick when it detonates, about 8760 meters per second, (M/S). Not bad for one of the older explosives. Of course the A10 feels the same about RDX. So take your pick as to where you are when exposed to two ounces of RDX, in the air or on the ground. Either way, chances are you will not care for the results, rendering the point mute. And honestly, what does this conversation have to do with the F35? Except that the 500 lb GP bomb, loaded with RDX will do a hell of a lot more damage over a much larger area and that is what the F35 will bring into play. Not to mention the cannister bombs which cause even more confusion and pain. Enter the B1B or B2. The A10 is just fine when dealing with armor but that is about it. The AH64 pops up, aquires the target, fires and disappears and lives to fight again. I am still in your camp on this one Daryl.

 

[Bleipriester]

Is it accurate? No. Is it safe to use in a environment that has manpads (you have to go straight and level to use it) No. Is it more deadly on soft targets than 20mm or 50 cal? No. Does a missile do a better job and is safer? Yes. Before

Before the wide dispersion of Manpads, the A-10 was very good at CAS. Not anymore. It's no better or worse than a host of other AC firing Hellfires and Mavericks. Shoot, even the new AC-130J fires Hellcats. And so does every fighter in the US Inventory. The days of saying the A-10 is the best at anything is long gone. It hasn't been the best at anything since the first Gulf War. You will

You should notice that the Marines aren't clammering for any A-10s. They would rather have more AH-1Zs and OV-10s. One would think the ARmy would better utilize their AH-64s for CAS but they are too busy looking for headlines doing things that other birds can do better. As far as I am concerned, the AH-64 is the ultimate CAS bird. Or it could be if it were to be used for it.

No, no, no. The A-10 is a CAS plane so you have to ask the ground troops for approval. The A-10 did well in Iraq 2003 and the soldiers loved this plane.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Two ounces of RDX, (58 grams) will certainly get the attention of an infantry soldier. Especially when delivered among seven other rounds of the same type and in an area of one hundred square feet. A pound of RDX is a load and super quick when it detonates, about 8760 meters per second, (M/S). Not bad for one of the older explosives. Of course the A10 feels the same about RDX. So take your pick as to where you are when exposed to two ounces of RDX, in the air or on the ground. Either way, chances are you will not care for the results, rendering the point mute. And honestly, what does this conversation have to do with the F35? Except that the 500 lb GP bomb, loaded with RDX will do a hell of a lot more damage over a much larger area and that is what the F35 will bring into play. Not to mention the cannister bombs which cause even more confusion and pain. Enter the B1B or B2. The A10 is just fine when dealing with armor but that is about it. The AH64 pops up, aquires the target, fires and disappears and lives to fight again. I am still in your camp on this one Daryl.

Thanks, IR. I feel like a Trump Supporter at a Soros party on this one. Most of these folks have never seen real war and real damage close up. Or watched a buddy being loaded in a baggie onto a transport. It doesn't matter much to the individual if they are killed by a 50 cal, 20mm, 30mm, 105mm or a bomb or rocket. If it's placed on target, it all kills. Or have lost pilots and crew to some idiot with something small fired from the ground. I want to protect the crews at all times. Flying in the weeds is NOT the way to do that.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-35 crisis as Pentagon’s top weapon testing official warns plan to put unfinished $400bn fighters into service puts pilots at 'significant risk'
Michael Gilmore warns putting unfinished fighters into combat puts pilots at 'risk' | Daily Mail Online
Game of pretend may be coming to an end when Trump gets in ....I hope

 

[Daryl Hunt]

F-35 crisis as Pentagon’s top weapon testing official warns plan to put unfinished $400bn fighters into service puts pilots at 'significant risk'
Michael Gilmore warns putting unfinished fighters into combat puts pilots at 'risk' | Daily Mail Online
Game of pretend may be coming to an end when Trump gets in ....I hope

boyo don't you ever have an original thought? YOu keep repeating the same crap over and over no matter what. The F-35 will always be in some kind of testing. As each test is completed successfully, it becomes more deadly and capable. And the other birds benefit from it as well. One of the biggest recipents of this technology has been the F-22. Now, the weapons slung under the various fighters and bombers also have benefited. As benefits keep coming and test keep either passing or failing on the test units, the F-35 just keeps getting better. It won't stop the testing until it's replaced sometime in 2050.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Not the same crap dumbass ...new article.......facts are overwhelming......hope Trump cancels this pos

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not the same crap dumbass ...new article.......facts are overwhelming......hope Trump cancels this pos

New article quoted the same tired sources. And only based on the first 4 test units that are still in testing. Those same countries that were trying to cancel their orders are now standing in line to get as many as they can. Guess you know more about it than Combat Pilots who may foolishly believe it's better than the fighters they are currently operating even with the F-35 faults.

 

[I amso IR]

Not the same crap dumbass ...new article.......facts are overwhelming......hope Trump cancels this pos

New article quoted the same tired sources. And only based on the first 4 test units that are still in testing. Those same countries that were trying to cancel their orders are now standing in line to get as many as they can. Guess you know more about it than Combat Pilots who may foolishly believe it's better than the fighters they are currently operating even with the F-35 faults.

Daryl, I have not been keeping up and am concentrating on other things. Has anything been reported on a stronger or better power plant for the F 35. Just wondering. IamsoIR

 

[Manonthestreet]

Not the same crap dumbass ...new article.......facts are overwhelming......hope Trump cancels this pos

New article quoted the same tired sources. And only based on the first 4 test units that are still in testing. Those same countries that were trying to cancel their orders are now standing in line to get as many as they can. Guess you know more about it than Combat Pilots who may foolishly believe it's better than the fighters they are currently operating even with the F-35 faults.

Foolish is right....funny none of em can do anything yet......yeah got superfighter wrtten all over it