Explaining Regulation to the NPR Crowd...

flacaltenn

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Regulations intended for "BIG TOY" -- Instead threaten the extinction of craft and custom handmade goods for children..

Plenty of lefties on USMB who look to govt as the only thing that stands between them and free market anarchy. Don't get why everyone's screaming about "regulation" being a major factor in our economic decline.. Here's a lesson that hits the left squarely in their own crotch..

Dangerous Toys, Strange Bedfellows - Reason Magazine

Cecilia Leibovitz is the kind of person who writes sentences
like: “Children are individuals, each with their own unique
personality, so I just couldn’t feel good about buying
mass-produced toys and clothing from cookie-cutter chain stores.”
Leibovitz is the 36-year-old founder of Craftsbury Kids, a
Vermont-based online vendor of handmade toys. She sells the type
of gear that arty, upscale, NPR-listening parents can’t get
enough of: sock monkeys, baby onesies featuring a “hand-stamped
and appliquéd” crow with “crocheted flowers and recycled fabric
grass,” even a carved wooden “707 Air Force One plane” with “a
beautiful silk screened portrait of President John F. Kennedy.”

So no one was more surprised than Leibovitz last winter when she
found herself on the wrong side of federal law, fighting against
consumer safety groups, and building alliances with Republican
congressmen to defend free markets.


It all started with the panic over Chinese toys in the summer of
2007. Against a backdrop of daily scare stories about kids
gnawing on knick-knacks full of lead, Mattel recalled a
staggering 19 million toys. The news made headlines for weeks.
Leibovitz and her compatriots had been anticipating the backlash
against industrial Chinese toys for years. When the Polly Pockets
hit the fan, here was a cadre of crafty hipsters ready to fill
the void, making toys, clothes, and even foodstuffs in small
U.S.-based factories and home workshops. Leibovitz remembers
thinking the Mattel recall would be good for business. And for a
while, it was: In September 2007, when holiday sales started to
ramp up, “there was just suddenly a huge demand for wooden
natural toys and alter-native toys that were made in the U.S.,”
she says. Her suppliers worked feverishly to fill orders.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found
themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms
of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now
illegal until proven clean.

Before the legislation, says Leibovitz, “I’d never really gotten
involved politically. I’ve just tried to work in my own life.”
But a lot of what she thought she knew about the political
process turned out to be wrong. She was discouraged to discover
how little power citizens, and even individual lawmakers, have
over legislation.
Consumer safety groups, she says, ended up
getting exactly what they wanted.

“I’ve been supportive of some of these groups,” she says. “I
actually blogged about this safety issue in 2007, thinking we
were just focusing on problem products. I didn’t realize how
massive the law would be and how many products it would cover
That folks is what you call "battlefield conversion" or a "coming to religion" moment for a politically estranged hipster.. How bad is it??

As a direct result of the CPSIA, some business is already drying
up. Selecta, a German maker of wooden toys popular with the DIY
consumer set, announced that it would no longer export toys to
the United States as of the end of 2008, leaving its 1,200 U.S.
retailers high and dry. HABA, another German toymaker, has
removed its line of jewelry from 2009 catalogs. Since lead is
completely banned in all objects intended for children, dirt
bikes and other kids’ bicycles containing tiny amounts of lead in
their mechanical parts will become illegal.


The CPSIA also requires that children’s books
printed before 1985 be individually tested to rule out the
presence of lead paint or other hazardous materials, a provision
that has angered librarians and caused some used bookstores to
trash much of their vintage stock.
This is OUTRAGEOUS.. All because Congress can't write competent legislation and exercise ANY rational judgement about risk/reward. The craft kid supply industry in this country is in LITERAL danger of extinction. Not to mention publishers, clothes manufacturers, and any other US cottage industry..

The BIGGEST KICK in the NUTS??? Mattel -- the "Big Toy" giant that started this controversy -- gets an EXEMPTION from this onerous law.. Lefty causes DECIMATING small biz and supporting "big toy"...

Second biggest kick in the nuts? MOST independent testing shops for these requirements are now located in China.. The place that contaminated the products that caused this knee-jerk.

Learn: Problems With CPSIA

All of these changes will be fairly easy for large, multinational
toy manufacturers to comply with. Large manufacturers who make
thousands of units of each toy have very little incremental cost
to pay for testing and update their molds to include batch
labels.

For small toymakers and manufacturers of children's products,
however, the costs of mandatory testing will likely drive them
out of business.

■A toymaker, for example, who makes wooden cars in his garage in
Maine to supplement his income cannot afford the $300 - $4,000
fee per toy that testing labs are charging to assure compliance
with the CPSIA.
■A work at home mom in Minnesota who makes cloth diapers to sell
online must choose either to violate the law or cease operations.
■A small toy retailer in Vermont who imports wooden toys from
Europe, which has long had stringent toy safety standards, must
now pay for testing on every toy they import.
■And even the handful of larger toy makers who still employ
workers in the United States face increased costs to comply with
the CPSIA, even though American-made toys had nothing to do with
the toy safety problems of 2007.

The CPSIA simply forgot to exclude the class of children's goods
that have earned and kept the public's trust: Toys, clothes, and
accessories made by small businesses where the owners are
personally involved in the creation of their goods. The result,
unless the law is modified, is that handmade children's products
will no longer be legal in the US.


If this law had been applied to the food industry, every farmers
market in the country would be forced to close while Kraft and
Dole prospered.
Next time a lefty asks for "examples" of how regulations are hobbling the economy -- Please send them here...
 
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flacaltenn

flacaltenn

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Here's an example of one small biz lady who will never look at regulation the same way...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY5F74mpQGA]CPSIA- OH BABY! BIBS & BICYCLES on TEST HIT LIST- KDVR Fox 31 Denver 01-02-09 - YouTube[/ame]
 

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Nothing like a liberal who gets mugged becoming a conservative. She should talk to the Gibson guitar people who got raided.
 

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LOL, I can hardly listen to NPR because they are so bias and stupid. I have never heard news that literally tells one side of the story on purpose as often as in NPR. There is no difference between NPR and Fox news other than the fact that NPR believes they are honest and Fox knows they lie.

When the house was taken over by the Republicans and Tea Party one of the anchor woman said something like "How could they vote for people that believe in no Government?" You could hear her anger and disappointment, it was clearly in her voice. Not a single person there (in the studio) said "Correction, Small Government." They just left it as dumb as humanly possible for the "NPR" crowd to agree with.

Sorry, prolly very off topic but I saw “NPR crowd.”
 

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LOL, I can hardly listen to NPR because they are so bias and stupid. I have never heard news that literally tells one side of the story on purpose as often as in NPR. There is no difference between NPR and Fox news other than the fact that NPR believes they are honest and Fox knows they lie.

When the house was taken over by the Republicans and Tea Party one of the anchor woman said something like "How could they vote for people that believe in no Government?" You could hear her anger and disappointment, it was clearly in her voice. Not a single person there (in the studio) said "Correction, Small Government." They just left it as dumb as humanly possible for the "NPR" crowd to agree with.

Sorry, prolly very off topic but I saw “NPR crowd.”
Suds doesn't like what he hears on Fox so he says they are lying. The lefties yearn for the good old days when the only information available to the public was slanted left. Suds thinks he is bipartisan when he throws NPR and Fox into the same pot but it is just leftie ignorance. NPR is typical of government sponsored left wing propaganda you can find anywhere in the world.
 
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flacaltenn

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Welll heck -- Let's just go do a search on NPR for CPSIA and see if anything turns up..

The bias is mostly WHAT is covered.. Not HOW it's covered..

Hey hey hey -- NPR never dissappoints.. I did a quick search of stories they covered on toy regulation. Couldn't find a story that described the DEPTH and SIZE of the CPSIA regulations. Certainly only one passing buried reference about testing freaking childrens' BOOKS!!!

But I did find a lot of PRO-REG stories and a couple that actually admitted SOME of the impact on the small biz crafts industry in America..

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100804776



ADLER: And given the hue and cry over safety over toys from China and over a new consumer product safety regulations that no one I met understands, two words you hear over and over are safe and green. At Green Toys everything from 7.99 flying discs to dump trucks is made of recycled milk jugs. This is a new company less than two years old doing better than they ever expected. They are in 3,000 stores, and here is one of the founders, Robert von Goeben.

Mr. ROBERT VON GOEBEN (Founder, Green Toys): We make, essentially, classic toys. Our best seller is the tea set, which is a 17-piece set made completely from recycled milk jugs, completely safe and made in the USA.

ADLER: And when I ask him what parents want…

Mr. VON GOEBEN: People treat toys like they treat food. They want to know what's in it. We have almost an ingredients list on our toys. I think parents want to know: What's in this toy I'm giving my kid?
Adler BTW is the author. Notes that "nobody knows or understands the REGS, but shows NO INTEREST in enlightening the NPR audience. Only that it's causing a "hue and cry".. And then a favorable interview with a toy supplier that's LARGE enough not to care..

Here's another -- where the emphasis and banner head is about how the testing labs are making a profit (GASP) because of this great legislative step forward.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102185546

It's not often that businesses find government regulations profitable. But independent testing labs are taking advantage of the rule of the law to stay afloat in these tough economic times.

These labs help manufacturers ensure that products meet all federal requirements, testing everything from water to circuit boards to toys. Despite the downturn, some labs are seeing business increase, in part because of new legislation that requires manufacturers and sellers to prove their products are safe.

For Trace Laboratories, the new requirement for toy testing has been a boon for business.

"It is amazing how many people contact us," Morris says. "In the time we've been sitting here talking, I've had four different contacts of people looking for either phthalates or lead or some other metal in a toy or children's product."

But Trace's new toy-testing bonanza has come at a cost to toymakers, who aren't happy about having to pay to test every model of toy they sell. For them, $250 for a single horse adds up quickly.

Jamie Seeley Kreisman is one of the owners and managers of a small toy company called Beka Inc. in St. Paul, Minn.

Kreisman started Beka in 1973, mostly making wooden toys such as blocks and train sets. He says Beka toys have always been made with a low lead content, but now the company has to pay to prove it.

When you add up all those tests — every color of block, every model of pull-toy — it comes to an extra $30,000 a year. "For us, that's very likely going to be the difference between being profitable and not being profitable," he says, especially in a recession year when sales are already down.
But even worse is the possibility of a $100,000 fine if his company doesn't comply. Kreisman says just one misstep would put Beka out of business. The company depends on testing labs like Trace to keep it in business.
So NPR dribbles out the onerous part inside of stories that lead the audience AWAY from the basic implications of the law. But I don't see where they have given a DAMN about libraries PURGING old kid's books, 2nd Hand stores JUNKING merchandise, or putting MOST of the American craft small biz on a road to extinction...
 
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flacaltenn

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WHAT? Not a single lefty arguing that THIS is not an example of regulation killing the economy? Ruining folks ability to support themselves? C'mon -- defend the kids.. Tell me how this keeps "big toy" from killing babies...
 

Ravi

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The law bans lead and phthalates in toys, books, clothes, and any other object intended for children under 12. To enforce these rules, the law requires every toymaker, distributor, or retailer who sells products in the U.S. to certify each of its models through third-party testing, labeling every item with an individual date and batch number.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now illegal until proven clean.
Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.
 
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flacaltenn

flacaltenn

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The law bans lead and phthalates in toys, books, clothes, and any other object intended for children under 12. To enforce these rules, the law requires every toymaker, distributor, or retailer who sells products in the U.S. to certify each of its models through third-party testing, labeling every item with an individual date and batch number.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now illegal until proven clean.
Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.
Apparently you're not getting it.. A book (to be used by children) that has NO paint, NO plastic content --- NEEDS to be tested..

A wooden toy crafted in someone's workshop that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, NEEDS to be tested.

A bib sew by a Self-employed mom that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, No Lead NEEDS to be tested..

Are you so void of reason and logic and just filled with "piss-off" as to believe this is REASONABLE cost to a self-employed craftsperson??

With your help -- ALL their jobs will move to China..
 

bripat9643

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It all started over the Chinese toys.....
Yeah, so?

BTW, how many verified cases are there of children being injured by those Chinese toys?

Oh yeah. . . . a big fat zero.
 

Ravi

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The law bans lead and phthalates in toys, books, clothes, and any other object intended for children under 12. To enforce these rules, the law requires every toymaker, distributor, or retailer who sells products in the U.S. to certify each of its models through third-party testing, labeling every item with an individual date and batch number.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now illegal until proven clean.
Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.
Apparently you're not getting it.. A book (to be used by children) that has NO paint, NO plastic content --- NEEDS to be tested..

A wooden toy crafted in someone's workshop that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, NEEDS to be tested.

A bib sew by a Self-employed mom that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, No Lead NEEDS to be tested..

Are you so void of reason and logic and just filled with "piss-off" as to believe this is REASONABLE cost to a self-employed craftsperson??

With your help -- ALL their jobs will move to China..
Ink is used to print. Paint is used to decorate.

There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
 

bripat9643

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Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.
There's that liberal concern over the unemployed and small business owners we've all come to know.

If you don't want to buy toys that haven't been tested, who the fuck is forcing you to?

You behave just like a Nazi brownshirted thug.
 

bripat9643

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There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.
Then don't. No one is forcing you to buy untested toys.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
ROFL! So any business who can't survive the cost of your fascist controls is "weak?" I believe liberals call that "blaming the victim." There won't be any businesses replacing them because the government imposed costs will no allow them to make a profit.

Servile toads like you believe business will keep on producing no matter what obstacles place in their path, and then you wonder why unemployment is over 9%

You understand that fundamentally your attitude is completely fascist, don't you?
 
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Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.
Apparently you're not getting it.. A book (to be used by children) that has NO paint, NO plastic content --- NEEDS to be tested..

A wooden toy crafted in someone's workshop that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, NEEDS to be tested.

A bib sew by a Self-employed mom that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, No Lead NEEDS to be tested..

Are you so void of reason and logic and just filled with "piss-off" as to believe this is REASONABLE cost to a self-employed craftsperson??

With your help -- ALL their jobs will move to China..
Ink is used to print. Paint is used to decorate.

There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
Really? A self-employed person that wants to make a wooden train set might face $4000 or $5000 in testing and imprinted lot codes (needs to be done for EACH PIECE).. Think there's "a hundred hungry souls" stupid enough to think that they will make a living under such a burden?

Is your 10 year old spending hours suckling on the tire rims of his scooter?

I've got 24 years constant exposure to lead solder in the electronics biz.. I've often soldered with a slice of pizza in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. I asked my doc to run lead tox screens on me and NEVER showed any elevation. And for THAT -- you want libraries to start purging old children's books?

You want a reason for economic malaise -- here it is right in front of your nose.

And WHY IS IT -- that the govt TRUSTS MATTEL to do self-compliance? Is that FINE with you?
 
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bripat9643

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Really? A self-employed person that wants to make a wooden train set might face $4000 or $5000 in testing and imprinted lot codes (needs to be done for EACH PIECE).. Think there's "a hundred hungry souls" stupid enough to think that they will make a living under such a burden?

Is your 10 year old spending hours suckling on the tire rims of his scooter?

I've got 24 years constant exposure to lead solder in the electronics biz.. I've often soldered with a slice of pizza in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. I asked my doc to run lead tox screens on me and NEVER showed any elevation. And for THAT -- you want libraries to start purging old children's books?

You want a reason for economic malaise -- here it is right in front of your nose.
There's only one cause for all our economic problems: liberalism.

Ravi is virtually a caricature of pigheaded authoritarian liberal stupidity.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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Plenty of lefties on USMB who look to govt as the only thing that stands between them and free market anarchy.
Never a good idea to start one’s thread with a fallacy.

Few if any on ‘the left’ believe this – otherwise non-conservatives understand that at times government regulation is appropriate, given the fact that the ‘natural regulators’ of the free market system are an impotent anachronism.
There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.
Indeed, in fact you have good reason to believe the toys are contaminated.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
Given the poor track record of businesses over more then a century, they have only themselves to blame for regulation.
 
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flacaltenn

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Plenty of lefties on USMB who look to govt as the only thing that stands between them and free market anarchy.
Never a good idea to start one’s thread with a fallacy.

Few if any on ‘the left’ believe this – otherwise non-conservatives understand that at times government regulation is appropriate, given the fact that the ‘natural regulators’ of the free market system are an impotent anachronism.
There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.
Indeed, in fact you have good reason to believe the toys are contaminated.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
Given the poor track record of businesses over more then a century, they have only themselves to blame for regulation.
This is really precious.. The 1st statement in your post accuses me of a fallacy in regards to lefty comments that the "free market" cannot be trusted without constant regulation and oversight by government.

THen in a "head-spinning" reversal --- you indulge in EXACTLY the same rhetoric.. TWICE!

Indeed, in fact you have good reason to believe the toys are contaminated.
Given the poor track record of businesses over more then a century, they have only themselves to blame for regulation
Can you do that again Clayton.. It's VERY entertaining..

So these mom/pop craftspeople would INTENTIONALLY endanger their customers? (if you believe that if even minor exposure to these materials is endangerment at all). I thought that only Big Toy or China Toy would stoop that low "for profit".. Do you realize that this ENTIRE INDUSTRY EXISTS as an "alternative" to cruddy cheap plastic SHIT from Mattel and others? That it is FEEDS on consumer sentiment for SAFER, BETTER, alternatives to what you find in Toys R' Us?

So Ravi/Clayton -- Why not allow the crafts to made without a certification? Or with ALTERNATE certification from an independent source?

Do you really TRUST the USDA "organic" certification? If folks DID -- there wouldn't be so many alternate sources of "organic" certification. Remember -- the "crappiest" hot dogs on the market are "FDA regulated".
 
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Ravi

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Apparently you're not getting it.. A book (to be used by children) that has NO paint, NO plastic content --- NEEDS to be tested..

A wooden toy crafted in someone's workshop that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, NEEDS to be tested.

A bib sew by a Self-employed mom that contains NO PAINT, NO Plastic, No Lead NEEDS to be tested..

Are you so void of reason and logic and just filled with "piss-off" as to believe this is REASONABLE cost to a self-employed craftsperson??

With your help -- ALL their jobs will move to China..
Ink is used to print. Paint is used to decorate.

There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
Really? A self-employed person that wants to make a wooden train set might face $4000 or $5000 in testing and imprinted lot codes (needs to be done for EACH PIECE).. Think there's "a hundred hungry souls" stupid enough to think that they will make a living under such a burden?

Is your 10 year old spending hours suckling on the tire rims of his scooter?

I've got 24 years constant exposure to lead solder in the electronics biz.. I've often soldered with a slice of pizza in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. I asked my doc to run lead tox screens on me and NEVER showed any elevation. And for THAT -- you want libraries to start purging old children's books?

You want a reason for economic malaise -- here it is right in front of your nose.

And WHY IS IT -- that the govt TRUSTS MATTEL to do self-compliance? Is that FINE with you?
It doesn't cost $4,000 to $5,000 for each piece. :rofl:

I wish you twits would run a candidate that claims wanting to ensure lead free toys is fascism. At least we'd some refreshingly honest stupidity to listen to.

:thup:

Apparently this regulation of Dubya's didn't hurt her business at all. I just checked the website and she is still selling her wooden toys.
 
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Ink is used to print. Paint is used to decorate.

There is no reason that I should take some manufacturer's word that they aren't letting lead get into my children's toys.

If they are so weak that they can't make it in this country they should leave now. Because there are a hundred hungry souls just waiting to take over such a business that have no trouble complying with simple safety regulations.
Really? A self-employed person that wants to make a wooden train set might face $4000 or $5000 in testing and imprinted lot codes (needs to be done for EACH PIECE).. Think there's "a hundred hungry souls" stupid enough to think that they will make a living under such a burden?

Is your 10 year old spending hours suckling on the tire rims of his scooter?

I've got 24 years constant exposure to lead solder in the electronics biz.. I've often soldered with a slice of pizza in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. I asked my doc to run lead tox screens on me and NEVER showed any elevation. And for THAT -- you want libraries to start purging old children's books?

You want a reason for economic malaise -- here it is right in front of your nose.

And WHY IS IT -- that the govt TRUSTS MATTEL to do self-compliance? Is that FINE with you?
It doesn't cost $4,000 to $5,000 for each piece. :rofl:

I wish you twits would run a candidate that claims wanting to ensure lead free toys is fascism. At least we'd some refreshingly honest stupidity to listen to.

:thup:

Apparently this regulation of Dubya's didn't hurt her business at all. I just checked the website and she is still selling her wooden toys.
You aren't actually answering my questions like why MATTEL should be exempt? Or why products that OBVIOUSLY don't contain any of these substances -- still need to be certified.

I didn't say that EACH PIECE costs $4K to $5.. I said "a wooden train set" might cost that amount. BECAUSE each piece is independently charged for testing. (reading comp problems due to chemical exposure?)

I bought my daughter a wooden ARK at a craft fair 6 years ago. Had at least 40 HAND CARVED wooden animals in it. I imagine that's over $10,000 in testing and compliance with this reg...
 

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