Exactly Why You Have an Electoral System

[Leo123]

Trumptards need to admit this simple truth: if Hillary had won the electoral vote but lost the popular vote, they would to this day claim the election was rigged and that abolishing the electoral college would have ensured Trump’s victory.

Instead it was Trump who won the election but lost the popular vote. Therefore they pretend they never said the election process was rigged and that Trump’s victory was completely legitimate and we NEED the electoral college.

In other words, you agree that your support for getting rid of the EC is purely partisan. Thanks.

It’s pretty simple logic that the popular vote is more indicative of what the majority of Americans want. That’s pure democracy.

We do not have a 'pure democracy' and shouldn't because dense population distribution is skewed to a few American cities that are supported by less densely populated States that would be forced to accept legislation that may not pertain to them and even be destructive toward the American geographic economy. The result of 'pure democracy' is to make some people more equal than others. Here is a rather stark example of a 'pure democracy.' Let's imagine 7 people in a lawless land. 5 men and 2 women. The men vote and pass a resolution to rape the 2 women. The resolution 'passes' and, of course, the women get raped.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

It doesn't. Unless you have better than a 2nd Grader's reading comprehension.

Essentially, the OP explains that the electoral college makes it SIGNIFICANTLY less likely that fraud can sway a presidential election, as it confines the potential effects of any fraud to the electors of the state in which the fraud takes place. No EC, and 1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware could swing 2016's popular vote the other way. With the EC, 1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware can never sway more than 3 electorals.

In terms of fraud protection, it's like having multiple sections in a ship's hull to prevent a single breach from taking on enough water to sink the ship.

Honestly, if you can't understand the logistics being presented here, I'd have to assume you're actually expending effort on remaining ignorant.

There's no way you'd get "1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware" except under another hallucination.

Again, the issue wasn't fraudulent votes in Delaware --- it was around what to do with multiple slates of electors. That's not supposed to happen, and it could have been resolved by getting accurate counts of the final votes in those states, or whatever method those states decided to use.

NO state is required to hold an election at all, or if it does, to use the totals of that vote to pick electors. It can pick them any way it likes. Here we had three states that couldn't come to terms on who their electors were.

Points taken. A state as small as Deleware and a million votes was a shit example, and after a reread, yeah, the OP story doesn't really illustrate this potential benefit of the electoral system over a direct election. While we might argue over what might otherwise have been, I must admit there's not a lot of reason to assume that this particular case wouldn't have gone the same way in the same time frame under any other set of electoral rules that ultimately ended up being decided by a congressional committee. I stand twice corrected.

Well said, and rarely said around here.

That said, the ability to isolate voter fraud to single states and potentially prevent singular corrupt municipalities from overturning entire national elections seems to be a relatively self evident benefit of the electoral college. Given the number of total votes one might have to fake in a direct election vs the number of electors one might potentially overturn by doing the same in the right state, the scenarios where this breakdown would actually save the overall results are admittedly rather limited, but there are numerous potential scenarios where that's exactly what happens.

It's not the strongest argument for the EC, but it is an argument for it.

It isn't really related. Are all vote counts accurate? Of course not, and they never will be. But that's got no bearing on either how the 1876 election played out, or on the larger question of whether the EC is an equitable system. What you have here is basically a garbage-in-garbage-out point. Sure, but what's it got to do with the EC?

And again, no state is required to either hold an election OR to base its EC vote on that election if it does.

My dog is registered to vote and Trump wins by one.
Find me.
Oh wait, my cousin has a cat registered to vote. That was the tie.

 

[Pogo]

PragerU?

Third ignoramus answer to facts.
What a retard you are.

Prager "U" -- which is in no sense a U unless U stands for Unsubstantiated -- has never ever dealt in "facts". For a good time watch one and count the bullshit. Prager "U" is a propaganda machine with no regard for facts at all, presenting pseudofacts that are easily discredited in seconds, counting on Gullibles to swallow whole without questioning.

Poster please. Prageru this

More directly it tells us the poster who slops it in here doesn't have an argument, so he proxies a video to do it for him. As I always say if you can't articulate your own argument, then you ain't got one.

 

[Weatherman2020]

PragerU?

Third ignoramus answer to facts.
What a retard you are.

Prager "U" -- which is in no sense a U unless U stands for Unsubstantiated -- has never ever dealt in "facts". For a good time watch one and count the bullshit. Prager "U" is a propaganda machine with no regard for facts at all, presenting pseudofacts that are easily discredited in seconds, counting on Gullibles to swallow whole without questioning.

More directly it tells us the poster who slops it in here doesn't have an argument, so he proxies a video to do it for him. As I always say if you can't articulate your own argument, then you ain't got one.

Tell us the inaccurate statement.
You never watched it, dumbass ignoramus.

 

[francoHFW]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

 

[jknowgood]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

It stopped Hillary. The reason we need it.

 

[francoHFW]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

 

[CWayne]

PragerU?

Yep, at least twice your intellectual capacity.

If you had bothered, you'd have looked up the fact that the South wanted to count ALL of the blacks for purposes of representation in Congress.

This would have given them an advantage. The 3/5's compromised hobbled the south and set the stage for the abolitionists to gain enough momentum to start the Civil war.

Of course, this is general knowledge to learned people, who don't fear PC retribution.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

Demeaning Americans just because of where they live. How Leftist of you.

So you want 4 cities in America to get all the perks at the cost of America is what you want.

 

[CWayne]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

I like the EC because it keeps the wolves from eating the sheep.

 

[Pogo]

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

I like the EC because it keeps the wolves from eating the sheep.

Didn't I just spank you about this very myth? Or was that another parrot?

Voters simply are not "wolves" or "sheep". That's your bullshit false premise.

 

[bluzman61]

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

Hey, dummy, you posted this same message twice. Typical brainwashed loony liberal response. Good luck until President Trump leaves the White House in January of 2025.

 

[francoHFW]

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

Demeaning Americans just because of where they live. How Leftist of you.

So you want 4 cities in America to get all the perks at the cost of America is what you want.

My area is 73% Trump and it is wonderful except for the brainwashed functional moron politics of so many. I don't talk to them about it much LOL

 

[Pogo]

PragerU?

Yep, at least twice your intellectual capacity.

If you had bothered, you'd have looked up the fact that the South wanted to count ALL of the blacks for purposes of representation in Congress.

This would have given them an advantage. The 3/5's compromised hobbled the south and set the stage for the abolitionists to gain enough momentum to start the Civil war.

Of course, this is general knowledge to learned people, who don't fear PC retribution.

I already knew that shit, Chunkles. I have many a rumination on this topic going WAY deeper than anything here.

What in the wide world of blue FUCK is the difference whether you pump up your population and ergo your EC vote power on the backs of three-fifths of a slave population you''re not giving a vote to, eight-nineteenths of a slave population you''re not giving a vote to or one-fortieth a slave population you''re not givng a vote to? Hm?

---- or didn't you THINK of that?

 

[Leo123]

Prager "U" -- which is in no sense a U unless U stands for Unsubstantiated -- has never ever dealt in "facts". For a good time watch one and count the bullshit. Prager "U" is a propaganda machine with no regard for facts at all, presenting pseudofacts that are easily discredited in seconds, counting on Gullibles to swallow whole without questioning.

Poster please. Prageru this

More directly it tells us the poster who slops it in here doesn't have an argument, so he proxies a video to do it for him. As I always say if you can't articulate your own argument, then you ain't got one.

And just what did YOU 'articulate?' Obvious hatred toward a forum member and Prager. No substantive argument just name-calling. Talk about propaganda....

 

[Pogo]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

It stopped Hillary. The reason we need it.

I knew somebody would crack. And there it is.

How did DTMB put it --- "In other words, you agree that your support for getting rid of the EC is purely partisan. Thanks."

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Nice review of 1876.

But it doesn't explain why we need an EC does it.

It doesn't. Unless you have better than a 2nd Grader's reading comprehension.

Essentially, the OP explains that the electoral college makes it SIGNIFICANTLY less likely that fraud can sway a presidential election, as it confines the potential effects of any fraud to the electors of the state in which the fraud takes place. No EC, and 1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware could swing 2016's popular vote the other way. With the EC, 1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware can never sway more than 3 electorals.

In terms of fraud protection, it's like having multiple sections in a ship's hull to prevent a single breach from taking on enough water to sink the ship.

Honestly, if you can't understand the logistics being presented here, I'd have to assume you're actually expending effort on remaining ignorant.

There's no way you'd get "1,000,000 fraudulent votes in Delaware" except under another hallucination.

Again, the issue wasn't fraudulent votes in Delaware --- it was around what to do with multiple slates of electors. That's not supposed to happen, and it could have been resolved by getting accurate counts of the final votes in those states, or whatever method those states decided to use.

NO state is required to hold an election at all, or if it does, to use the totals of that vote to pick electors. It can pick them any way it likes. Here we had three states that couldn't come to terms on who their electors were.

Points taken. A state as small as Deleware and a million votes was a shit example, and after a reread, yeah, the OP story doesn't really illustrate this potential benefit of the electoral system over a direct election. While we might argue over what might otherwise have been, I must admit there's not a lot of reason to assume that this particular case wouldn't have gone the same way in the same time frame under any other set of electoral rules that ultimately ended up being decided by a congressional committee. I stand twice corrected.

Well said, and rarely said around here.

That said, the ability to isolate voter fraud to single states and potentially prevent singular corrupt municipalities from overturning entire national elections seems to be a relatively self evident benefit of the electoral college. Given the number of total votes one might have to fake in a direct election vs the number of electors one might potentially overturn by doing the same in the right state, the scenarios where this breakdown would actually save the overall results are admittedly rather limited, but there are numerous potential scenarios where that's exactly what happens.

It's not the strongest argument for the EC, but it is an argument for it.

It isn't really related. Are all vote counts accurate? Of course not, and they never will be. But that's got no bearing on either how the 1876 election played out, or on the larger question of whether the EC is an equitable system. What you have here is basically a garbage-in-garbage-out point. Sure, but what's it got to do with the EC?

And again, no state is required to either hold an election OR to base its EC vote on that election if it does.

Yeah, no, I was conceding before that the 1876 story doesn't illustrate the point, and I never said that this proves the equitability. Also well aware that the fact that the 50 states are picking their electors via popular election is essentially coincidental, as there's no constitutional compulsion to do so. That said, all 50 states do, in fact, hold these popular elections, so the point remains, regardless of whether it was a benefit that was actually intended from the get-go.

My initial claim, I believe it was in this thread but, forgive me, I'm too lazy to hunt it down, is what I believe to be the greater argument. City dwellers don't need to be making ill informed decisions to impose poorly-thought-out regulations on the regions that grow their food. This would lead to all sorts of disaster that I'd rather not get too deep into considering.

 

[francoHFW]

Read the OP.

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

I like the EC because it keeps the wolves from eating the sheep.

If only..
The GOP is the swamp could only garbage propaganda and the brainwash makes this mess possible. All they care about is cutting taxes on the rich and services and benefits for everyone else. Great job. Not to mention the depressions and stupidest Wars ever. Including trade Wars

 

[Weatherman2020]

I did. I always do.

Again, nice review of 1876, but it doesn't address the very question it brings up. It just relates how it was done in this case, even calling the process Constitutionally questionable.

For that matter you didn't defend your position in the first line either.

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

Pogo proves time and time again with their inane posts they are a brainwashed loony lib, with an I.Q. of MAYBE room temperature.

The reason you like the electoral College is because it is a big advantage to the party of rural people. The dupes. LOL. So course you are brainwashed with all kinds of Bologna about why we need the electoral College. I believe they should go by the popular vote so the presidential candidates have to campaign everywhere.

I like the EC because it keeps the wolves from eating the sheep.

Didn't I just spank you about this very myth? Or was that another parrot?

Voters simply are not "wolves" or "sheep". That's your bullshit false premise.

Says the ignoramus who claims the 3/5 compromise was racist.

 

[Pogo]

Prager "U" -- which is in no sense a U unless U stands for Unsubstantiated -- has never ever dealt in "facts". For a good time watch one and count the bullshit. Prager "U" is a propaganda machine with no regard for facts at all, presenting pseudofacts that are easily discredited in seconds, counting on Gullibles to swallow whole without questioning.

Poster please. Prageru this

More directly it tells us the poster who slops it in here doesn't have an argument, so he proxies a video to do it for him. As I always say if you can't articulate your own argument, then you ain't got one.

And just what did YOU 'articulate?' Obvious hatred toward a forum member and Prager. No substantive argument just name-calling. Talk about propaganda....

uh HUH.

You mean like...

Stinky bait. You’re a retard or a troll, so go tell your mommy you need to clean your room

and

As soon as you claimed the 3/5 rule to be racist showed what an ignoramus you are who doesn’t have a clue about history.

and

Another moron who thinks the 3/5 rule was racist.
Simply shows those opposed to the Electoral System don’t have a Kindergartner knowledge of history.

and

Thanks for validating you’re a total gullible moron.

and

You’re a moron.

and

More Leftard Bullshit.

and

Third ignoramus answer to facts.
What a retard you are.

?

Yeah I bite back. What of it?