Ex-Spy poisoned in London

8236

VIP Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
572
Reaction score
65
Points
78
Location
52.5 N 1.5 W
I've had a look around, but can't find anyone else having picked up on this story, and i've put in the terror section, cos the UK terror squad is dealing with this issue.

LONDON (AFP) - Former spy Alexander Litvinenko, probably poisoned by a highly toxic radioactive substance, accused Russian President Vladimir Putin over his murder from beyond the grave.

As the affair threatened to escalate politically, health officials said a "large quantity" of radiation probably from polonium 210 had been found in Litvinenko's urine, while checks were made on people who had contact with him.

Later in the day, the British government confirmed it had formally asked Moscow for any information it had on Litvinenko, a critic of the Kremlin who moved to Britain six years ago.​

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061124/wl_uk_afp/britainrussiaspy

This guy Litvinenko is an ex-FSB (former KGB) agent who became highly disturbed at the goings on in Chechnya, and fled to the UK, got political asylum there, and was given British citizenship.
He was a regular critic of Vladimir Putin and the FSB. For instance he accused the FSB of the Moscow apartment bombings which allowed Putin to initiate the second Chechen war.
Although unproven, to most observers in the UK it seems pretty obvious that he was poisoned by FSB agents, as Polonium-210 is a highly radioactive alpha emitter, with a half life of 138 days - not bought off the shelf!

The point is that the Duma (Russian parliament) recently passed a law that allows the FSB free reign to pursue any individual of group that they see fit on the grounds that they are 'terrorists' and includes anyone the deem a threat to the Russian state - they dont even have to consult the Duma or Putin for permission.

So what do we get? The assasination of a British subject in Britain by a foreign power. Clearly this is an act of state sponsored terrorism - and the Russians know they can get away with it because all they are doing is following our own (the west's) examples of kidnap, extraordinary rendition and asassination of foreigners in foreign lands.
All this is just another example of how dangerous it is to go around eroding the civil liberties the west (used to) take for granted. Now that our moral high ground has begun to slip, it has allowed others to sink to even lower depths.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,852
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
I've had a look around, but can't find anyone else having picked up on this story, and i've put in the terror section, cos the UK terror squad is dealing with this issue.

LONDON (AFP) - Former spy Alexander Litvinenko, probably poisoned by a highly toxic radioactive substance, accused Russian President Vladimir Putin over his murder from beyond the grave.

As the affair threatened to escalate politically, health officials said a "large quantity" of radiation probably from polonium 210 had been found in Litvinenko's urine, while checks were made on people who had contact with him.

Later in the day, the British government confirmed it had formally asked Moscow for any information it had on Litvinenko, a critic of the Kremlin who moved to Britain six years ago.​

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061124/wl_uk_afp/britainrussiaspy

This guy Litvinenko is an ex-FSB (former KGB) agent who became highly disturbed at the goings on in Chechnya, and fled to the UK, got political asylum there, and was given British citizenship.
He was a regular critic of Vladimir Putin and the FSB. For instance he accused the FSB of the Moscow apartment bombings which allowed Putin to initiate the second Chechen war.
Although unproven, to most observers in the UK it seems pretty obvious that he was poisoned by FSB agents, as Polonium-210 is a highly radioactive alpha emitter, with a half life of 138 days - not bought off the shelf!

The point is that the Duma (Russian parliament) recently passed a law that allows the FSB free reign to pursue any individual of group that they see fit on the grounds that they are 'terrorists' and includes anyone the deem a threat to the Russian state - they dont even have to consult the Duma or Putin for permission.

So what do we get? The assasination of a British subject in Britain by a foreign power. Clearly this is an act of state sponsored terrorism - and the Russians know they can get away with it because all they are doing is following our own (the west's) examples of kidnap, extraordinary rendition and asassination of foreigners in foreign lands.
All this is just another example of how dangerous it is to go around eroding the civil liberties the west (used to) take for granted. Now that our moral high ground has begun to slip, it has allowed others to sink to even lower depths
.
Russians assasinate a Russian defector and it's the West's fault. Stupid.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
I've had a look around, but can't find anyone else having picked up on this story, and i've put in the terror section, cos the UK terror squad is dealing with this issue.

LONDON (AFP) - Former spy Alexander Litvinenko, probably poisoned by a highly toxic radioactive substance, accused Russian President Vladimir Putin over his murder from beyond the grave.

As the affair threatened to escalate politically, health officials said a "large quantity" of radiation probably from polonium 210 had been found in Litvinenko's urine, while checks were made on people who had contact with him.

Later in the day, the British government confirmed it had formally asked Moscow for any information it had on Litvinenko, a critic of the Kremlin who moved to Britain six years ago.​

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061124/wl_uk_afp/britainrussiaspy

This guy Litvinenko is an ex-FSB (former KGB) agent who became highly disturbed at the goings on in Chechnya, and fled to the UK, got political asylum there, and was given British citizenship.
He was a regular critic of Vladimir Putin and the FSB. For instance he accused the FSB of the Moscow apartment bombings which allowed Putin to initiate the second Chechen war.
Although unproven, to most observers in the UK it seems pretty obvious that he was poisoned by FSB agents, as Polonium-210 is a highly radioactive alpha emitter, with a half life of 138 days - not bought off the shelf!

The point is that the Duma (Russian parliament) recently passed a law that allows the FSB free reign to pursue any individual of group that they see fit on the grounds that they are 'terrorists' and includes anyone the deem a threat to the Russian state - they dont even have to consult the Duma or Putin for permission.

So what do we get? The assasination of a British subject in Britain by a foreign power. Clearly this is an act of state sponsored terrorism - and the Russians know they can get away with it because all they are doing is following our own (the west's) examples of kidnap, extraordinary rendition and asassination of foreigners in foreign lands.
All this is just another example of how dangerous it is to go around eroding the civil liberties the west (used to) take for granted. Now that our moral high ground has begun to slip, it has allowed others to sink to even lower depths.
Nope. They know they can get away with it, because we want Russia to sell their oil to us, not just China. We are unwilling to excercise the power we have, thus are ceasing to be a great power.
 

Said1

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
947
Points
138
Location
Somewhere in Ontario
Oops. I posted this after you did, in the Europe forums. How many have they been accused of poisioning or attempting to poison now....3-4?
 
OP
8236

8236

VIP Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
572
Reaction score
65
Points
78
Location
52.5 N 1.5 W
Russians assasinate a Russian defector and it's the West's fault. Stupid.
The guy was no longer Russian

I agree with you that the last bit was wobbly logic, however there have been numerous leaders/countries around the world who recently have been able to shrug off western complaints or complaints from ngos like amnesty international about their methods by using the buzzwords 'terror' and 'we are only doing what america does'
 
OP
8236

8236

VIP Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
572
Reaction score
65
Points
78
Location
52.5 N 1.5 W
Nope. They know they can get away with it, because we want Russia to sell their oil to us, not just China. We are unwilling to excercise the power we have, thus are ceasing to be a great power.
Yep, that too... a sad state of affairs.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Yep, that too... a sad state of affairs.
Sadder than we realize. Western Europe is dead men walking. Now the US has once again chosen to turn a war into a stalemate, unwilling to do what is necessary to win a war.

Our institutions took a pass on the cartoon riots and say nary a word about the uprisings from Paris, Thailand, Russia, the Phillipines, or Africa.

Now state sponsored assassinations are being carried out, by an 'ally' and we here crickets.
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
Sadder than we realize. Western Europe is dead men walking. Now the US has once again chosen to turn a war into a stalemate, unwilling to do what is necessary to win a war.

Our institutions took a pass on the cartoon riots and say nary a word about the uprisings from Paris, Thailand, Russia, the Phillipines, or Africa.

Now state sponsored assassinations are being carried out, by an 'ally' and we here crickets.
What actions do you recommend be taken ?
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
Seems the steps are already underway and for now, the choices made. What do you think?
I'd have to know what steps and choices you are talking about. If it all consists of talk and condemnation it'll disappear from the news in about 2 days.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
I'd have to know what steps and choices you are talking about. If it all consists of talk and condemnation it'll disappear from the news in about 2 days.
Let's see, in the past couple days, Sunni's were doused with gasoline and burned alive, while the Iraqi police watched.

The US is looking at Iran and Syria to 'help stableize' Iraq, while both are having the finger pointed at them for trying to overthrow the government in Lebanon. Israel pulls out of the Gaza, again, while Palestinians keep firing rockets and the UN keeps condemning both the US and Israel.

If the above aren't steps, then ok, the 'enemy' is just stronger, which seems very unlikely, except in will.
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
Let's see, in the past couple days, Sunni's were doused with gasoline and burned alive, while the Iraqi police watched.

The US is looking at Iran and Syria to 'help stableize' Iraq, while both are having the finger pointed at them for trying to overthrow the government in Lebanon. Israel pulls out of the Gaza, again, while Palestinians keep firing rockets and the UN keeps condemning both the US and Israel.

If the above aren't steps, then ok, the 'enemy' is just stronger, which seems very unlikely, except in will.
OHHHHHH---I thought you were talking about steps being taken by the US.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
OHHHHHH---I thought you were talking about steps being taken by the US.
When the US fails to act it is proving it's as Osama said, 'the weak horse.' We've proven to have the stronger military for direct confrontation, but not the will to win to the point of the enemy capitulating. Those are decisions, steps if you will.
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,795
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
When the US fails to act it is proving it's as Osama said, 'the weak horse.' We've proven to have the stronger military for direct confrontation, but not the will to win to the point of the enemy capitulating. Those are decisions, steps if you will.
Seems the steps are already underway and for now, the choices made. What do you think?
Are you talking about the choices and steps to not make any choices or take any steps ? This is getting way to Zen for me. I don't see the US doing a damn thing to respond to anything these days except to issue statements of condemnation.:cuckoo:
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Are you talking about the choices and steps to not make any choices or take any steps ? This is getting way to Zen for me. I don't see the US doing a damn thing to respond to anything these days except to issue statements of condemnation.:cuckoo:
And 'just talking', whether it's through news conferences, just sound bites from press secretary, going to the UN are 'just talk', again, decision made, steps taken. (The decision to take 'no action' is a step).
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Oops. I posted this after you did, in the Europe forums. How many have they been accused of poisioning or attempting to poison now....3-4?
Claudia Rosett has a decent take on this:

http://claudiarosett.pajamasmedia.com/2006/11/24/from_russia_with_polonium210.php
From Russia With Polonium-210

Set in London, it has all the elements of an old Cold War thriller — but it just happened, and it’s no fiction. Former Russian agent Alexander Litvinenko is poisoned to death, dying horribly over the course of three weeks, after someone apparently slipped him a lethal dose of a radioactive isotope, Polonium-210. If anyone is well-placed to guess who master-minded his murder, it is the dying Litvinenko himself, who for the previous eight years has been one of the most outspoken critics of his former bosses in the FSB, formerly the KGB. From his hospital bed, we are told, he dictates a statement blaming Russia’s President Vladimir Putin, himself a veteran of the KGB, and telling him: “May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me, but to beloved Russia and its people.” And as the Kremlin denials begin and the conspiracy theories multiply — here you can find the Times of London summarizing the top five — the question of the hour is, whodunnit?

The even bigger question is whether the democratic world, especially the U.S., will heed the warnings that Litvinenko spent eight years trying to send us
— in the process spending time in 1999 in Russia’s Lefortovo prison, and then fleeing into exile. With his death, his 2002 book, “Blowing Up Russia: Terror From Within,” co-authored with Yuri Felshtinsky, has jumped to #118 in sales on Amazon — (I’m betting it was no where near that a month ago). The mystery and horror surrounding his death will no doubt linger in the headlines. But will the message stick?

Engrossed as we are in the current mess of a debate over the war against Islamo-fascists, it’s all too tempting to dismiss the signs that despite a number of common enemies, our erstwhile allies now running Russia are not exactly on our side. Russia’s government enjoys a lot of trust and fancy trappings, including membership bestowed during the Clinton era in the G-8 (in which this year it holds the presidency); and the USSR’s old veto-wielding permanent seat on the UN Security Council (which the Soviet Union didn’t deserve either). Less than a week ago, President Bush (in Hanoi, of all places) gave a U.S. green light to Russia’s entry into the World Trade Organization.

Meanwhile, Russia has been busy trading in all the wrong ways. On top of years spent selling nuclear technology to Iran, Russia’s defense ministry has just announced it is going ahead with deliveries to Tehran of anti-aircraft missiles. At the UN, Russia continues to block any serious attempt to stop Iran’s nuclear bomb program. In Iraq, during the Saddam Hussein era, Russia was the top trader with Baghdad via the graft-ridden Oil-for-Food program, leaving a trail of damning documentary evidence leading right up to the Kremlin — which Russian authorities have somehow neglected to investigate in any meangful way. With free speech basically dead in Russia, small surprise that on many fronts there is no end to the question marks and conspiracy theories. Who was behind the near-fatal poisoning in 2004 of the leader of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution, Viktor Yushchenko? Who was behind the recent murder of outspoken Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya? — whose shooting Litvinenko was investigating when he was poisoned. The murk is considerable, but one bottom-line is obvious. With an ally like Putin, don’t gaze into his eyes. Watch your back. And bring a food-taster.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
Getting weirder and weirder:

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/12/E4B19AB3-82B6-45C8-BABB-A13B7CEAB243.html

Tuesday, December 5, 2006

Litvinenko's Father Says Son Requested Muslim Burial

U.K. -- Valter Litvinenko father of Russian Aleksandr Litvinenko (C) show his emotions as he speaks at a press conference outside UCL Hospital in London England Friday 24Nov2006
Litvinenko's father, Valter (center), speaking to journalists in London on November 24
epa
PRAGUE, December 5, 2006 (RFE/RL) -- A team of British investigators has begun work in Moscow on the case of poisoned former Russian security officer Aleksandr Litvinenko.



The investigators are in Moscow to question several Russians who met with Litvinenko in London, where he died after being poisoned with a radioactive isotope, polonium-210.

It remains unclear if Litvinenko was intentionally poisoned. Scotland Yard, the headquarters of the London metropolitan police service, is not expected to comment while the investigation is under way.



The date of his funeral is due to be set later this week.

Religious Conversion

Litvinenko's father, Valter, told RFE/RL's Russian Service his son converted to Islam shortly before his death and wished to be buried according to Muslim tradition.

"He told me about his decision two days before he died. He said, 'Papa, I have to talk to you about something serious. I've become a Muslim,'" Walter Litvinenko said.

"I said, 'Sasha, it's your decision. As long as you don't become a communist or a satanist, that's the main thing.' I'm a Christian myself, but I have a granddaughter whose father is Kabardin -- my daughter's husband, he's Muslim as well," he continued. "We haven't lost God; we believe in God. But how to believe in God, how to pray -- everyone should do that in the way they consider best."

Valter Litvinenko, who described the conversion as "an important personal decision," said his son had been thinking about becoming a Muslim for some time because of growing disenchantment with the Russian Orthodox Church...
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,852
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
The guy was no longer Russian

I agree with you that the last bit was wobbly logic, however there have been numerous leaders/countries around the world who recently have been able to shrug off western complaints or complaints from ngos like amnesty international about their methods by using the buzzwords 'terror' and 'we are only doing what america does'
Well, doesn't THAT just make all kinds of sense? Condemn us in the global media, repeatedly where chance offers, then emulate our supposed crime and blame THAT on us too.

That's just plain stupid.
 

trobinett

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
1,832
Reaction score
162
Points
48
Location
Arkansas, The Ozarks
Other than the "contamination angle", why do we even care about this?

Sounds to me, like the "birds have come home to roost".
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top