Ex-Michigan Band Teacher Admits to Sex

[KarlMarx]

Ya know, those Catholic priests had better try harder.... it seems as if the public school teachers may be muscling in on their territory.....

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/07/D8IN5OUG0.html


Oh, what was it that I said once? Teachers are much more likely to abuse children than Catholic priests? Yes, I did say that, and here's your proof.

But then they're public school teachers, as in part of the Teacher's Union... and darlings of the media..... public school teachers can do no wrong!!!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

according to this article 290,000 children have been abused by teachers in a nine year period ending in 2000... as opposed to 11,000 cases of abuse by Catholic priests since 1950.....

so where is the liberal outrage over this? Where is are the headlines in "Time" and "Newsweek"? Where are the jokes on Letterman about public school teachers? Any exposes on NPR or in the NYT?

I thought so.....

 

[MissileMan]

according to this article 290,000 children have been abused by teachers in a nine year period ending in 2000... as opposed to 11,000 cases of abuse by Catholic priests since 1950.....

If I'm reading the site correctly, there are over 4.5 million teachers in the U.S...
How many priests are there?

 

[manu1959]

If I'm reading the site correctly, there are over 4.5 million teachers in the U.S...
How many priests are there?

you can avoid priests you can't avoid school teachers...govt says you have to go to school...you don't have to go to church

 

[MissileMan]

you can avoid priests you can't avoid school teachers...govt says you have to go to school...you don't have to go to church

This article is another example of a statistic being taken out of context to shift blame from a group the writer feels loyalty to. What I find particularly hypocritical is the taking of the exact opposite position when it comes to percentage of victims of pedophiles that are molested by same sex molesters. I'll wager that more than one poster will try to rationalize or even dismiss this hypocrisy.

 

[manu1959]

This article is another example of a statistic being taken out of context to shift blame from a group the writer feels loyalty to. What I find particularly hypocritical is the taking of the exact opposite position when it comes to percentage of victims of pedophiles that are molested by same sex molesters. I'll wager that more than one poster will try to rationalize or even dismiss this hypocrisy.

and what exactly does this have to do with what i said

 

[KarlMarx]

If I'm reading the site correctly, there are over 4.5 million teachers in the U.S...
How many priests are there?

About 50,000 priests are in the US. And that further proves my point.

The likelihood that a priest will abuse a kid is much lower than the liklihood a kid will be abused by a member of the general population. The likelihood a priest will abuse a kid is lower than the likelihood a teacher will.

The study claims 14,000 cases of abuse since 1950 until the present. That's a span of over 50 years or about 280 cases a year (about 1 case for every 178 priests)

In contrast, the 290,000 figure is over a 10 year period or 29,000 cases a year (about 1 case for every 155 teachers)

 

[musicman]

What I find particularly hypocritical is the taking of the exact opposite position when it comes to percentage of victims of pedophiles that are molested by same sex molesters. I'll wager that more than one poster will try to rationalize or even dismiss this hypocrisy.

and what exactly does this have to do with what i said

I'm as confused as you are, manu. I'd like to know what it has to do with ANYTHING. I didn't see where either article made a hard stand on the sexual preference of molestors AT ALL.

So, how is pointing out - for example, and rightly - that while homosexuals comprise only 1-3% of the population, they account for 20-40% of all child molestations - taking "the exact opposite position"??!!

 

[Avatar4321]

This is so incredibly wrong. You cant even trust the band leader? If you have a good band directer they do nothing but work their butts off when do they have time to have any sort of sex let alone sex with students?

our society is going down to hell. And no one seems to care.

 

[MissileMan]

From this same article:

Such figures led her to contend "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

Since there are 90 times more teachers than priests, this would be an expected outcome. As I alleged earlier, mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I'm as confused as you are, manu. I'd like to know what it has to do with ANYTHING. I didn't see where either article made a hard stand on the sexual preference of molestors AT ALL.

So, how is pointing out - for example, and rightly - that while homosexuals comprise only 1-3% of the population, they account for 20-40% of all child molestations - taking "the exact opposite position"??!!

That is a very disturbing percentage.

 

[MissileMan]

That is a very disturbing percentage.

And it's absolutely meaningless. Some want to make a link between homosexuality and pedophilia to justify their prejudice. The fact is that 100% of child molestations are committed by pedophiles. The fact is that 60-80% of all molestations are men molesting little girls. The fact is that there is no more a link between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia.

How can you argue that "homosexuality is cureable/pedophiles need to be locked up forever because they can't be cured" and out of the other side of your mouth argue that "homosexuality and pedophilia are linked"?

 

[musicman]

And it's absolutely meaningless. Some want to make a link between homosexuality and pedophilia to justify their prejudice. The fact is that 100% of child molestations are committed by pedophiles. The fact is that 60-80% of all molestations are men molesting little girls. The fact is that there is no more a link between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia.

Twist language, numbers, and definitions into pretzel-eights all you want. Although homosexuals comprise only 1-3% of the population, they account for a staggering 20-40% of all child molestations. That's a HELL of a link, and a disturbing truth. And, it seems to me, anyone who is at least as concerned with the well-being of our children, as with juggling facts so that homosexuals don't come out looking quite so heinous, would accept the link, be outraged by it, and support efforts to find out why it exists. But, of course, that would entail a hard, honest appraisal of the behavior known as homosexuality, and God forbid we disturb one of liberalism's sacred cows.

How can you argue that "homosexuality is cureable/pedophiles need to be locked up forever because they can't be cured" and out of the other side of your mouth argue that "homosexuality and pedophilia are linked"?

Why in the world COULDN'T you argue that? The two statements neither mutually exclude one another nor cancel each other out. Perhaps pedophilia is sociopathic, obsessed sexual deviancy carried out to its logical conclusion - and a behavior from which there is no return. Perhaps homosexuality is that deviancy to a different degree - a degree in which there still exists hope for recovery. I don't know, honestly. But I think that your attempt to show some sort of hypocrisy here is a game of your own invention. You are wrong, or - at worst - disingenuous.

 

[KarlMarx]

And it's absolutely meaningless. Some want to make a link between homosexuality and pedophilia to justify their prejudice. The fact is that 100% of child molestations are committed by pedophiles. The fact is that 60-80% of all molestations are men molesting little girls. The fact is that there is no more a link between homosexuality and pedophilia than there is between heterosexuality and pedophilia.

How can you argue that "homosexuality is cureable/pedophiles need to be locked up forever because they can't be cured" and out of the other side of your mouth argue that "homosexuality and pedophilia are linked"?

True, the majority of child molestations are opposite sex, but the fact remains that same sex molestations comprise 20% of all cases.

Further, the fact remains that homosexuals make up less than 4% of the entire population.

20/4 = 5 ---- that's a fact too (however, in liberal logic land, this is not a math fact, but homophobia. In fact, ladies and germs, 20 divided by 5 is any number you want it to be, just so long as it supports the gay agenda).

Child molesters, for the most part, cannot be cured. I once attended a meeting at my son's school, where the head of the Broome County parole board made the same statement. Recidivism rates among "cured" child molesters are very high, about 75 to 80 percent, if I recall the officer's claim. So that statement can also be considered a fact.

Now, whether homosexuality is curable or not, I can't say with one hundred percent certainty, but then, it hasn't been tried, now has it? In fact, if a psychologist or a psychiatrist makes any claims to such, he risks losing his license. Homosexuality is the only disorder that was voted off of the DSM by the American Psych Association.

Still, after all of this, the facts remain that:
1. More teachers have abused little kids than Catholic priests and at greater rates (we haven't included social workers, school administrators, psychologists and psychiatrists in this argument, either).

2. The left will prattle on and on and on and on and on and on about Catholic priests because, hey, that's the Church and the left hates the Church! If only that pesky Church would just go away!

3. The left will downplay, deny and disparage this embarrassing fact, that one of their sacred institutions, the public school system has an abuse problem and isn't doing anything about it.

BTW... have there been any high profile lawsuits by the ACLU or any organization against the NEA about this? Like the same high profile lawsuits against the Church? Have any persons in high positions in the education establishment been asked to resign as Cardinal Law did? Don't bother answering, I already know the answers.

 

[musicman]

How can you argue that "homosexuality is cureable/pedophiles need to be locked up forever because they can't be cured" and out of the other side of your mouth argue that "homosexuality and pedophilia are linked"?

What an empty, inane argument - unworthy of you, and motivated - I'm becoming more and more convinced - by a perceived need to throw anything and everything out there, in hopes that something sticks.

By this "logic", smoking and lung cancer can't be linked - since smoking is curable, and lung cancer pretty much isn't.

Please don't fall into the liberal rhetorical gimmickry trap; the "say something - anything - it doesn't have to make sense - just keep your lips moving or you'll appear to have lost the argument" mindset that has come to permeate so much of USMB discourse lately. It's a bad place, MissileMan; it's where reason goes to die.

 

[MissileMan]

Twist language, numbers, and definitions into pretzel-eights all you want. Although homosexuals comprise only 1-3% of the population, they account for a staggering 20-40% of all child molestations. That's a HELL of a link, and a disturbing truth. And, it seems to me, anyone who is at least as concerned with the well-being of our children, as with juggling facts so that homosexuals don't come out looking quite so heinous, would accept the link, be outraged by it, and support efforts to find out why it exists. But, of course, that would entail a hard, honest appraisal of the behavior known as homosexuality, and God forbid we disturb one of liberalism's sacred cows.



Why in the world COULDN'T you argue that? The two statements neither mutually exclude one another nor cancel each other out. Perhaps pedophilia is sociopathic, obsessed sexual deviancy carried out to its logical conclusion - and a behavior from which there is no return. Perhaps homosexuality is that deviancy to a different degree - a degree in which there still exists hope for recovery. I don't know, honestly. But I think that your attempt to show some sort of hypocrisy here is a game of your own invention. You are wrong, or - at worst - disingenuous.

It makes much more sense that pedophilia is a disease separate from homosexuality and heterosexuality. Studies have shown that the majority of homosexuals have no desire towards children just like heterosexuals. The fact that 20-40% of pedophiles go after same sex victims IMO, is not an indictment against homosexuals but is probably a side effect of whatever miswiring that made them attracted to children.

 

[MissileMan]

What an empty, inane argument - unworthy of you, and motivated - I'm becoming more and more convinced - by a perceived need to throw anything and everything out there, in hopes that something sticks.

By this "logic", smoking and lung cancer can't be linked - since smoking is curable, and lung cancer pretty much isn't.

Please don't fall into the liberal rhetorical gimmickry trap; the "say something - anything - it doesn't have to make sense - just keep your lips moving or you'll appear to have lost the argument" mindset that has come to permeate so much of USMB discourse lately. It's a bad place, MissileMan; it's where reason goes to die.

Baloney! If both groups (homosexuals and homosexual pedophiles) are from the same stock as you allege, then they are either a) both cureable or b) both incureable. Take YOUR pick, I'm already pretty sure the answer's b.

 

[musicman]

Baloney! If both groups (homosexuals and homosexual pedophiles) are from the same stock as you allege, then they are either a) both cureable or b) both incureable. Take YOUR pick, I'm already pretty sure the answer's b.

How on earth do you arrive at that - other than desperately wishing you could somehow will it to be true? You're not making any sense here, MissileMan.

 

[musicman]

It makes much more sense that pedophilia is a disease separate from homosexuality and heterosexuality.

You can't separate the sexual preference from the act, as badly as you seem to want to. The wild disparity in the number of molestations committed by homosexuals - relative to their representation in the population at large - suggests to any sane person, not grinding an axe - something deeply disturbing about homosexuality.

Studies have shown that the majority of homosexuals have no desire towards children just like heterosexuals. The fact that 20-40% of pedophiles go after same sex victims IMO, is not an indictment against homosexuals but is probably a side effect of whatever miswiring that made them attracted to children.

Going after children is sexually deviant. Once upon a time - before the APA sacrificed its integrity upon the altar of political correctness - homosexuality was recognized as deviant, as well. That homosexuality leads to deviant behavior with children at a rate wildly out of whack with its population numbers MUST, therefore, suggest that the common thread is deviancy; that - having gone down the road of deviancy as far as homosexuality - it is an easy and fast step to pedophilia. What else are sane people to conclude?

 

[MissileMan]

You can't separate the sexual preference from the act, as badly as you seem to want to. The wild disparity in the number of molestations committed by homosexuals - relative to their representation in the population at large - suggests to any sane person, not grinding an axe - something deeply disturbing about homosexuality.

And your zeal to condemn homosexuality renders you unable to see that the preference for pedophiles is child, not male or female.

That homosexuality leads to deviant behavior with children at a rate wildly out of whack with its population numbers MUST, therefore, suggest that the common thread is deviancy

What a totally baseless load of tripe that is. Does heterosexuality lead to deviant behavior with children?

BTW, a or b?

 

[musicman]

And your zeal to condemn homosexuality renders you unable to see that the preference for pedophiles is child, not male or female.

And your frantic need to deflect a frank, critical appraisal of homosexual behavior forces you to defend the preposterous notion that the victim's gender doesn't matter.

What a totally baseless load of tripe that is. Does heterosexuality lead to deviant behavior with children?

Heterosexuals - who comprise 97-99% of the population - account for only 60-80% of child molestations. How can you keep ignoring the 900 lb. gorilla in the room with you, and telling yourself that the stench must be coming from the neighbors' house?

BTW, a or b?

Ah - you ask that as if you have posed some devastating question to me that is so clever - so damning to my argument - that I'd just as soon try to dodge it. Let's see if we can dredge it back up...

Baloney! If both groups (homosexuals and homosexual pedophiles) are from the same stock as you allege, then they are either a) both cureable or b) both incureable. Take YOUR pick, I'm already pretty sure the answer's b.

How can I take MY pick when your question is itself insane - absolutely without basis in reality or rationality? Maybe you ought to take a break for a while, man; not being able to make any headway on this this issue is making you crazy.