Ex-Michigan Band Teacher Admits to Sex

[MissileMan]

All the other data that "refutes" my "tidbit" by attempting to change the meaning of "homosexual", or "pedophile", or "%", or "of"? Maybe you're NOT lying to me. Maybe you're just lying to yourself. You can go **** yourself, too.

On the contrary, the "7 times as many victims" statistic came from the same "1-3% producing 20-40% of the victims" folks. You choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived picture of reality. If, as you allege, the deviancy of homosexuality leads to pedophilia, the following would be true:
a. The number of homosexual pedophiles in the general population would be astronomically out of whack based on the percentage of homosexuals in the population.

I challenge you to provide a statistic from any reputable source that says that.

 

[MissileMan]

The fact that 20-40% of pedophiles go after same sex victims IMO, is not an indictment against homosexuals but is probably a side effect of whatever miswiring that made them attracted to children.

I'm not sure if I actually wrote this half-asleep or if someone's been playing around, but what I intended to write was:

The fact that 20-40% of molestation victims are molested by same sex molesters IMO...

No data has ever suggested that 20-40% of pedophiles are homosexual.

 

[musicman]

On the contrary, the "7 times as many victims" statistic came from the same "1-3% producing 20-40% of the victims" folks.

No - you've made this error before. The study I cite makes no mention of the alleged "super-molester".

 

[Gunny]

As you are going to repeat calling me a liar: Go **** yourself and your gorilla! You are living proof that you can't reason with an unreasonable person. You accuse me of cherry-picking when you ignore all of the other data pertaining to homosexual pedophilia except your one tidbit. You're a hypocrit.

Because pedophilia is as secretive as it is, and because the gay lobby has done everything in its power to skew the numbers and disassociate homosexuality with pedophilia, we'll probably NEVER know the real numbers.

However, pretending gay pedophiles don't exist because of the propaganda is just playing ostrich. A gay is a gay, and a pedophile is a pedophile, and a gay pedophile is a gay pedophile. Gay = attraction to same gender -- pedophile = attraction to children.

Attempting to sell that because one posesses one form of aberrant sexual behavior that one cannot posess another as well, is nothing BUT propaganda.

 

[MissileMan]

No - you've made this error before. The study I cite makes no mention of the alleged "super-molester".

From one of the sites that claims your "1-3%/20-40%": There are several others

http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

Homosexuals Molest Children At A Far Higher Rate Than Heterosexuals
Homosexuals account for only 1-2% of our population based on current surveys. The National Opinion Research Center in 1992 found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as “homosexual” or “bisexual. A 1995 survey of 18-49-year-old men published by the Journal of Sex Research indicated that 2.6% of them had engaged in homosexual sex within the prior 12 months; 4% had had homosexual sex within the past five years. In other words, at least 98-99% of our population is heterosexual in orientation.

Homosexual activists routinely claim that most child molesters are “heterosexual” males, thus shifting the focus away from their own very high rates of molestation. Since 98-99% of the population is heterosexual, it is technically correct to say that most molestations are done by heterosexuals. However, statistics indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.

For example: In 1987, Dr. Stephen Rubin of Whitman College conducted a ten-state study of sex abuse cases involving school teachers. He studied 199 cases. Of those, 122 male teachers had molested girls, while 14 female teachers had molested boys. He also discovered that 59 homosexual male teachers had molested boys and four female homosexual teachers had molested girls. In other words, 32 percent of those child molestation cases involved homosexuals. Nearly a third of these cases come from only 1-2% of the population.

Dr. Judith Reisman, in her book, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences, describes the research done by Dr. Gene Abel. This researcher compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters. In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters, they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester. Self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr. Abel concluded that homosexuals “sexually molest young boys at an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls.”

Can you divide 150 by 20? I'm not sure how you came by the notion that I came up with the "7-times the number of victims" by myself or out of thin air, but whether you care to admit it or not, it is another statistic from the same group of studies that reached the "1-3%/20-40%" conclusions. It is a factor that MUST be included if you are going to compare the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the general population to the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the pedophile population.

 

[Gunny]

:clap1:

From one of the sites that claims your "1-3%/20-40%": There are several others

http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

Homosexuals Molest Children At A Far Higher Rate Than Heterosexuals
Homosexuals account for only 1-2% of our population based on current surveys. The National Opinion Research Center in 1992 found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as “homosexual” or “bisexual. A 1995 survey of 18-49-year-old men published by the Journal of Sex Research indicated that 2.6% of them had engaged in homosexual sex within the prior 12 months; 4% had had homosexual sex within the past five years. In other words, at least 98-99% of our population is heterosexual in orientation.

Homosexual activists routinely claim that most child molesters are “heterosexual” males, thus shifting the focus away from their own very high rates of molestation. Since 98-99% of the population is heterosexual, it is technically correct to say that most molestations are done by heterosexuals. However, statistics indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.

For example: In 1987, Dr. Stephen Rubin of Whitman College conducted a ten-state study of sex abuse cases involving school teachers. He studied 199 cases. Of those, 122 male teachers had molested girls, while 14 female teachers had molested boys. He also discovered that 59 homosexual male teachers had molested boys and four female homosexual teachers had molested girls. In other words, 32 percent of those child molestation cases involved homosexuals. Nearly a third of these cases come from only 1-2% of the population.

Dr. Judith Reisman, in her book, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences, describes the research done by Dr. Gene Abel. This researcher compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters. In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters, they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester. Self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr. Abel concluded that homosexuals “sexually molest young boys at an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls.”

Can you divide 150 by 20? I'm not sure how you came by the notion that I came up with the "7-times the number of victims" by myself or out of thin air, but whether you care to admit it or not, it is another statistic from the same group of studies that reached the "1-3%/20-40%" conclusions. It is a factor that MUST be included if you are going to compare the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the general population to the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the pedophile population.

To your argument, I would say this: when one has a propensity toward sexual deviance, that person would be more likey to to deviate in othe rmanners than a person who is not sexually deviant.

 

[MissileMan]

Because pedophilia is as secretive as it is, and because the gay lobby has done everything in its power to skew the numbers and disassociate homosexuality with pedophilia, we'll probably NEVER know the real numbers.

And why shouldn't non-pedophilic homosexuals try to distance themselves from pedophiles? You don't see non-pedophilic heterosexuals embracing heterosexual pedophiles as another limb off the same tree.

However, pretending gay pedophiles don't exist because of the propaganda is just playing ostrich. A gay is a gay, and a pedophile is a pedophile, and a gay pedophile is a gay pedophile. Gay = attraction to same gender -- pedophile = attraction to children.

Attempting to sell that because one posesses one form of aberrant sexual behavior that one cannot posess another as well, is nothing BUT propaganda.

I don't know anyone who is trying to pretend that homosexual pedophiles don't exist. I'm arguing against the "homosexuality is a road to pedophilia" crowd because the studies indicate otherwise. There are quite a few claiming to see the entire picture having only placed one piece of the puzzle.

 

[MissileMan]

:clap1:

To your argument, I would say this: when one has a propensity toward sexual deviance, that person would be more likey to to deviate in othe rmanners than a person who is not sexually deviant.

And if the numbers actually showed that 20-40% of homosexuals were pedophiles, I'd be out there with the rest of you hunting them to put them down before they could molest a child.

 

[Gunny]

And why shouldn't non-pedophilic homosexuals try to distance themselves from pedophiles? You don't see non-pedophilic heterosexuals embracing heterosexual pedophiles as another limb off the same tree.

There's a difference between "embracing" and acknowledging. I am well-aware that non-homosexual pedophiles exist. In fact, I don't think anyone has posted, that I am aware of anyway, that ALL pedophiles are homosexual.

I don't know anyone who is trying to pretend that homosexual pedophiles don't exist. I'm arguing against the "homosexuality is a road to pedophilia" crowd because the studies indicate otherwise. There are quite a few claiming to see the entire picture having only placed one piece of the puzzle.

Homosexuality may or may not be a "road to pedophilia." The fact is, one who displays a propensity for sexual deviance is more likely to to display a propensity for further deviance, by setting precedent, than a person who is not a sexual deviant is.

 

[MissileMan]

Homosexuality may or may not be a "road to pedophilia." The fact is, one who displays a propensity for sexual deviance is more likely to to display a propensity for further deviance, by setting precedent, than a person who is not a sexual deviant is.

Is there any information that you're aware of that suggests that pedophiles started out with other forms of deviance, like water sports, scat, beastiality, etc. and worked their way to pedophilia in a manner similar to progressive drug addiction?

 

[Gunny]

And if the numbers actually showed that 20-40% of homosexuals were pedophiles, I'd be out there with the rest of you hunting them to put them down before they could molest a child.

I believe I already addressed this. There is no way to get a good set of numbers due to the secretiveness involved, and the dishonesty on both issues.

None of which are valid reasons to dismiss whether or not homosexuality is or is not a factor in pedophilia. Seems as a society we're too caught up in being PC and not calling homosexuals sexual deviants, nor even wantng to insult them, that we are willing to not seek the truth in favor of political correctness.

Which begs the question:

IF homosexuality doesn't lead to pedophilia, or the homosexual population does not have a higher percentage of pedophiles than the heterosexual population, then WHY hide the truth?

 

[Gunny]

Is there any information that you're aware of that suggests that pedophiles started out with other forms of deviance, like water sports, scat, beastiality, etc. and worked their way to pedophilia in a manner similar to progressive drug addiction?

I don't believe I implied such.

All I can offer is common sense analogy, based on behavior. A person who commits one crime is far more likely to commit another, than a person who commits no crimes is likely to commit one.

A person who plays one sport is far more likely to play two or more than a person who plays none is likely to play one.

You are using the "snowball" or "slippery slope" theory and I did not even imply that. I did not say that one definitely leads to another. I've only demonstrated a logical and common-sense approach to behavior patterns.

 

[MissileMan]

I believe I already addressed this. There is no way to get a good set of numbers due to the secretiveness involved, and the dishonesty on both issues.

None of which are valid reasons to dismiss whether or not homosexuality is or is not a factor in pedophilia. Seems as a society we're too caught up in being PC and not calling homosexuals sexual deviants, nor even wantng to insult them, that we are willing to not seek the truth in favor of political correctness.

Which begs the question:

IF homosexuality doesn't lead to pedophilia, or the homosexual population does not have a higher percentage of pedophiles than the heterosexual population, then WHY hide the truth?

I firmly believe that most homosexuals are born with their orientation and it is a condition they will have for life. While I am disgusted to the point of nearly vomiting by the image of 2 guys kissing on a TV show, while I also understand that their behavior deviates from our norm, I also believe that they should be allowed to live their life in the manner they were born into. By the way, my revulsion at the sight of homosexual images is one of the reasons that I dismiss the choice argument.

As for the truth of the issue, until recently, homosexuality was something to be kept secret. I think you'll see some more accurate data become available over the next several years that will settle the matter one way or the other.

I also think there is a concerted effort by the extreme religious right to hide the truth, particularly that homosexuals are born that way. To them it's a matter of biblical-correctness.

Time will tell.

 

[MissileMan]

All I can offer is common sense analogy, based on behavior. A person who commits one crime is far more likely to commit another, than a person who commits no crimes is likely to commit one.

I think your argument makes sense too. Using this same common sense, why would someone engaging in non-criminal homosexuality make the move to the criminal act of pedophilia?

 

[Gunny]

I firmly believe that most homosexuals are born with their orientation and it is a condition they will have for life. While I am disgusted to the point of nearly vomiting by the image of 2 guys kissing on a TV show, while I also understand that their behavior deviates from our norm, I also believe that they should be allowed to live their life in the manner they were born into. By the way, my revulsion at the sight of homosexual images is one of the reasons that I dismiss the choice argument.

I firmly believe it is a behavioral problem, and I cannot consider your revulsion with it to be a legitimate reason for it to be biological. Perhaps you are just a normal person and selective about where your sexual gratification comes from.

As for the truth of the issue, until recently, homosexuality was something to be kept secret. I think you'll see some more accurate data become available over the next several years that will settle the matter one way or the other.

I don't. There's too much at stake for either side, and political correctness denies truth in favor of automoton behavior.

I also think there is a concerted effort by the extreme religious right to hide the truth, particularly that homosexuals are born that way. To them it's a matter of biblical-correctness.

Time will tell.

I think there is a concernted effort by the extreme left to hide the truth, and attempt to legitimize abnormal behavior as normal. To them, it's a matter of tearing down any form of moral values in favor of extreme self-gratification.

 

[nt250]

And why shouldn't non-pedophilic homosexuals try to distance themselves from pedophiles? You don't see non-pedophilic heterosexuals embracing heterosexual pedophiles as another limb off the same tree.



I don't know anyone who is trying to pretend that homosexual pedophiles don't exist. I'm arguing against the "homosexuality is a road to pedophilia" crowd because the studies indicate otherwise. There are quite a few claiming to see the entire picture having only placed one piece of the puzzle.

I don't know what you read, but the gay lobby absolutely will not allow anyone to say, or imply, that there is any such thing as a gay pedophile.

It's not allowed. Try it if you don't believe me.

I live in New England, where the Catholic priest scandal was big a few years ago. Whenever someone wrote an article that mentioned homosexuality in the context of the priest scandal, for example how the Catholic church should or could prevent homosexuals from entering the priesthood, someone always wrote in to decry the mention of homosexuality in the context of the scandal. There is no such thing as a gay pedophile, they'd say, and shame on the reporter for being such a homophobe.

Sorry, but a man who molests a boy is a homosexual, and the gay rights lobby can deny that all they want. But that doesn't make their denial true.

But the gay rights lobby and their defenders, liberals, will just throw anything to the opposition they think will stick. I'm against any form of gay rights laws because I think they are nothing more than legislating the reaction to a personal habit. What other group in the history of mankind has managed to get laws passed that tell others how they're supposed to react to someone elses behavior? And a private behavior like sex?

Whenever I post about it, the first reaction from the other side is to assume I'm a Christian. Sorry. Atheist here. Can't blame religion for my stance. If you pick your nose and eat it, it's not enough that I never see you do it. I don't want to know that you have ever done it because I find it disgusting personal habit and I will judge you for it.

So then, once they know my objection is not religion based (after calling me everything from a right wing Christian homophobe to a bigot), they claim that being gay has nothing to do with sex.

Yup. Being gay has nothing to do with sex.

Who knew?

 

[Emmett]

Listen all you fags, there is absolutely NOTHING normal about a man wanting to put his penis in a mans butt. OK, I said it!

Christian or not, sex is for reproducing, anyone who can not figure that out has more problems than an opinion about homo sex. A MAN and a WOMAN can have sex and reproduce. Fags can NOT!

I have read all the justification pitches I can stand about homos.

Back to the point. A butthole is for urinating. It is that damn simple. The thought that it is used for any other purpose than depositing human waste is absolutely sick! It IS a sick act to engage in homosex, period.

A mod will probably knock this post off and I would certainly understand as there is certainly no sugar coating on it such as usually is provided. Sometimes things have to be bluntly said to get full value. They are said!

Pretending to be something ( such as most men who are fags pretend to be women) is the point. I know there are the macho type fags also but they are just as sick to be attracted to a sissy ***. You can provide me all the rhetoric you want but I and 95% of the population will still believe what we believe. A *** is a weirdo. A pedophile is a ***! A helpless victim is a victim of a sick practice of homosexual behavior. Democrats protect fags. They want their votes. Fags vote for Democrats in stiffling numbers (99%). One could say that Fags are Democrats. Hmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again I apologize for my bluntness about this issue. I'm just tired of reading the same ol tired arguments by homos trying to rectify their sick behavior and convince the rest of us to absorb the crap and digest it. It ain't happnin here!!!!!!!

 

[musicman]

Can you divide 150 by 20? I'm not sure how you came by the notion that I came up with the "7-times the number of victims" by myself or out of thin air, but whether you care to admit it or not, it is another statistic from the same group of studies that reached the "1-3%/20-40%" conclusions. It is a factor that MUST be included if you are going to compare the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the general population to the percentages of homo/heterosexuals in the pedophile population.

I just can't argue with you any more, MissileMan; you've beaten me down.

I will grudgingly admit that homosexual pedophiles are - solely by virtue of their homosexuality - exponentially more prolific and dangerous than their heterosexual counterparts.

You drive a hard bargain, man.

 

[MissileMan]

Listen all you fags, there is absolutely NOTHING normal about a man wanting to put his penis in a mans butt. OK, I said it!

Christian or not, sex is for reproducing, anyone who can not figure that out has more problems than an opinion about homo sex. A MAN and a WOMAN can have sex and reproduce. Fags can NOT!

I have read all the justification pitches I can stand about homos.

Back to the point. A butthole is for urinating. It is that damn simple. The thought that it is used for any other purpose than depositing human waste is absolutely sick! It IS a sick act to engage in homosex, period.

A mod will probably knock this post off and I would certainly understand as there is certainly no sugar coating on it such as usually is provided. Sometimes things have to be bluntly said to get full value. They are said!

Pretending to be something ( such as most men who are fags pretend to be women) is the point. I know there are the macho type fags also but they are just as sick to be attracted to a sissy ***. You can provide me all the rhetoric you want but I and 95% of the population will still believe what we believe. A *** is a weirdo. A pedophile is a ***! A helpless victim is a victim of a sick practice of homosexual behavior. Democrats protect fags. They want their votes. Fags vote for Democrats in stiffling numbers (99%). One could say that Fags are Democrats. Hmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again I apologize for my bluntness about this issue. I'm just tired of reading the same ol tired arguments by homos trying to rectify their sick behavior and convince the rest of us to absorb the crap and digest it. It ain't happnin here!!!!!!!

Wow! You're a regular Einstein!

 

[Nuc]

Christian or not, sex is for reproducing, anyone who can not figure that out has more problems than an opinion about homo sex. A MAN and a WOMAN can have sex and reproduce. Fags can NOT!

Back to the point. A butthole is for urinating.

A butthole is for urinating? Quote of the day, if not the year! You ought to call a plumber.

A MAN and a WOMAN can have sex and reproduce? True, but how frequently we are reminded that sometimes they shouldn't.