Evolution question.

[Hollie]

Both would be staggeringly complex, but only one is likely.

The best argument against human evolution is that we don't act as if we are product of evolution. We do however act according to what is revealed about us in the Bible.

I'm not clear what is meant by,

we don't act as if we are product of evolution.

The fact is, we live in a world in which what we can measure, analyze, investigate, demonstrate scientifically has greater authority than what we can't. For many religious people, that's just not enough. For them, it really is a question of how they can be absolutely certain, that they are of special, supernatural creation, that there is a unique, divine designer unique to their particular religion excluding all other religions and the supernatural designer gods of those religions.

Common ancestry is readily apparent in the fossil record in terms of shared anatomical, embryological, and molecular similarities. The fact that species have died off as the result of environmental change suggests poor design on the part of your gods.

 

[Hollie]

Indeed it's exactly in the opposite. Entropie grows - so complexity should sink. And our whole universe (= the nature) came from an unknown "supernatural" (= metapysical) situation which we currently are only able to describe with the word "nothing". Once was no space, no time and no energy - "suddenly" a universe started to expand and entropie started to sink. And into this "chaos" life was born on a little unimportant planet. No guarantee that more life exists in the whole universe. (Physically life is the highest form of complex and dynamic matter which we know).

indeed, not. If you're hoping to borrow the "irreducible complexity'' by Behe and you don't want to go there. There is nothing about irreducibly complex systems that provides any evidence for supernatural design.

 

[Hollie]

Science is already bumping against the supernatural.
God will reveal it to them in time.

I didn't know that. Can you provide an example of supernaturalism that science has bumped up against?

 

[alang1216]

We're not in harmony with our own bodies, much less nature. We are destroying both.

And that is based on what?

We, like Lucifer, were created perfect, "until iniquity was found in us".

Doesn't seem like perfection to me but it must be just as God planned it.

 

[Woodznutz]

I didn't know that. Can you provide an example of supernaturalism that science has bumped up against?

The origin of matter.

 

[Woodznutz]

And that is based on what?

Doesn't seem like perfection to me but it must be just as God planned it.

Mankind is just now reaching the life span of people thousands of years ago, and we need modern medicines and procedures that the ancients didn't need.

God did plan it. Our existance on earth is just a small part of a larger plan.

 

[Hollie]

The origin of matter.

How is that supernatural?

What is the standard for judging something to be of supernatural origin?

 

[Woodznutz]

The fact is, we live in a world in which what we can measure, analyze, investigate, demonstrate scientifically has greater authority than what we can't.

And we quickly discard what is inconvenient regardless of how scientifically sound.

For many religious people, that's just not enough. For them, it really is a question of how they can be absolutely certain, that they are of special, supernatural creation, that there is a unique, divine designer unique to their particular religion excluding all other religions and the supernatural designer gods of those religions.

I'm absolutely certain without scientific proof.

Common ancestry is readily apparent in the fossil record in terms of shared anatomical, embryological, and molecular similarities.

Common designer, common materials, common design. No mystery there.

The fact that species have died off as the result of environmental change suggests poor design on the part of your gods.

Mankind is responsible for much of this, not poor design. Nothing wrong with the design of the Passenger pigeon. Many ancient species died out because they had served the purpose for which they were created.

 

[Woodznutz]

How is that supernatural?

What is the standard for judging something to be of supernatural origin?

The fact that science will never be able to discover the origin of matter scientifically. They've gone almost as far as they can go.

 

[alang1216]

Mankind is just now reaching the life span of people thousands of years ago, and we need modern medicines and procedures that the ancients didn't need.

Is there any physical evidence to back up that assertion. Outside of the Bible of course. Do any non-Abrahamic religions make that assertion? Aztecs, Hindus, or Asians for instance.

God did plan it. Our existance on earth is just a small part of a larger plan.

Do you know the larger plan?

 

[Hollie]

The fact that science will never be able to discover the origin of matter scientifically. They've gone almost as far as they can go.

How do you know that?

 

[Hollie]

And we quickly discard what is inconvenient regardless of how scientifically sound.

I'm absolutely certain without scientific proof.

Common designer, common materials, common design. No mystery there.

Mankind is responsible for much of this, not poor design. Nothing wrong with the design of the Passenger pigeon. Many ancient species died out because they had served the purpose for which they were created.

What is discarded because it's inconvenient? We haven't discarded biological evolution because it's inconvenient to some religious beliefs.

That's great to be so certain. The religious institutions were certain of a egocentric world.

What common designer? The Christian gods have little in common with the Hindu gods.

Dinosaurs were wiped out because they served a purpose?

 

[22lcidw]

Exactly.

The costs of keeping people alive though eventually helps us to eliminate people from the weight on governments. However, there are good, healthy, intelligent people who die in the violence that develops also.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

I don't know that humans are still evolving. We have always taken care of our weak or disabled. Uniquely in nature it is our cultures that are evolving. Alas it has made us a very warlike species.

Yes, we are still evolving. If you actually read about evolution from evolutionists then you should know what the definition of evolution is in biology.

 

[scruffy]

The fact that science will never be able to discover the origin of matter scientifically. They've gone almost as far as they can go.

Horseshit.

Science understands matter perfectly well.

I just explained it to you in the other thread, even I understand it.

If you don't, it just means you need to crack a book. I recommend electrodynamics, it's a lot easier than chromodynamics.

 

[zaangalewa]

Science is already bumping against the supernatural.

What's a nonsense business. Mathematics for example is meta-physics (=super-natural). A point for example has 0-dimensions - the spacetime has 4 dimensions. This are "tricks" of our common spirit and our individual psyche to make the world calculable, predictable. Our perception lives for example a very short time in the future - otherwise we could not play table tennis. We see the ball where it will be when we try to hit him. The strange thing: We are not really able to seperate the spirit of the world from our own spirit. We are creation like everything all around us. We are universe. And the universe has no outside. But astonishingly we are able to speak about other universes. So either we make something wrong or "spirit" is really able to transcend our limited universe although it has no border and no outside.

God will reveal it to them in time.

Why? I revealed here for example "The meta-physics of physics is mathematics". Or I revealed "Atheism is the belief not to believe". Kurt Goedel revealed a proof of god which is still not falsified. For the scientific traffic lights such words, arguments and proofs do not exist. A traffic light not knows what's a rainbow and why it is clothing Sebastian the tree.



Schläft ein Lied in allen Dingen,
die da träumen fort und fort.
Und die Welt hebt an zu singen,
triffst du nur das Zauberwort.
-----
Translation:
Sleeps a song in all things,
that dream on and on.
And the world begins to sing,
you only hit the magic word.

 

[braalian]

We aer not really able to seperate the spirit of the creataIONS world "psche" pf the wrold the spirtopt of thweo rold

Is the spelling here intentional, or just a series of typos?

 

[zaangalewa]

Is the spelling here intentional, or just a series of typos?

Read again. I do not live in your attention span.

 

[braalian]

Read again. I do not live in your attention span.

Or, you could just type like a normal person

 

[zaangalewa]

indeed, not. If you're hoping to borrow the "irreducible complexity'' by Behe

What?

and you don't want to go there. There is nothing about irreducibly complex systems that provides any evidence for supernatural design.

I fear you are lost in abstracta. Tell me what you think when you speak out "irreducibly complex systems" and why you are able to think you know everything about such systems and all their possible existences and what's the role of this sytems in our world. Do you for example speak here only about complex numbers or about complexity in sense of mathematical chaos (non linear mathematics). And how do you bring this in combination with the multi-cellular evolution of life on our planet Earth which is happening here since about 500 million years?