Evolution question.

[fncceo]

It's the fit humans that help the unfit humans survive.

That isn't biological evolution, that is a social construct.

And NOTHING, natural or unnatural survives as an individual.

Survival in Darwinian terms means you only survive long enough to pass on your genes to another generation. After which, your survival is inconsequential.

Humans, those you consider fit, or those you consider unfit, will survive as long as we continue to pass on our genes.

 

[alang1216]

As long as the sick and deformed are allowed to reproduce evolution cannot proceed.

So?

 

[zaangalewa]

If the cornerstone of evolution is the extinction of species with 'undesirable traits' why do we go out of our way to save people who have these traits? Kinda makes the ToE irrelevant doesn't it? Don't we need the "Darwin Effect" to improve our species? ...

You misunderstand "Darwinism" drastically. Example: Human beings have 22 chromosoms (44 Autosoms) and 2 sex chromosomes (Gonosoms). Together 23 [pairs of] chromosomes. Deviations from this chromosomes are called numeric chromosome aberrations. Such aberrations are normally a big health problems. But what are doing this little "machines" - the chromosomes - which exist in every cell? Totally different jobs. Main job is to produce proteins.

So what do you call now "Darwin effect"? How do you like to instruct chromosomes for example to understand the word "character trait"? First you had to find out whether such an expression has really something to do with biology. This I doubt. Example: You read the book "meditationes" from Marcus Aurelius and this book changes your character so you become much more relaxed and calm in your whole life. What do you like to do now? To write this book in Chromosome 24 which will kill you or make you to a member of a totally other species?

 

[Woodznutz]

You misunderstand "Darwinism" drastically. Example: Human beings have 22 chromosoms (44 Autosoms) and 2 sex chromosomes (Gonosoms). Together 23 [pairs of] chromosomes. Deviations from this chromosomes are called numeric chromosome aberrations. Such aberrations are normally a big health problems. But what are doing this little "machines" - the chromosomes - which exist in every cell? Totally different jobs. Main job is to produce proteins.

So what do you call now "Darwin effect"? How do you like to instruct chromosomes for example to understand the word "character trait"? First you had to find out whether such an expression has really something to do with biology. This I doubt. Example: You read the book "meditationes" from Marcus Aurelius and this book changes your character so you become much more relaxed and calm in your whole life. What do you like to do now? To write this book in Chromosome 24 which will kill you or make you to a member of a totally other species?

Do you understand the staggering complexity of what you just described?

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you understand the staggering complexity of what you just described?

It's extremely simplified what I said here - and yes: I think I understand very well the complexity in the background of such thoughts.

 

[Hollie]

Do you understand the staggering complexity of what you just described?

Staggering complexity is an argument against supernatural design.

 

[Woodznutz]

Staggering complexity is an argument against supernatural design.

Both would be staggeringly complex, but only one is likely.

The best argument against human evolution is that we don't act as if we are product of evolution. We do however act according to what is revealed about us in the Bible.

 

[westwall]

If the cornerstone of evolution is the extinction of species with 'undesirable traits' why do we go out of our way to save people who have these traits? Kinda makes the ToE irrelevant doesn't it? Don't we need the "Darwin Effect" to improve our species?

My (science/ToE oriented) dentist wanted to pull my wisdom teeth, which no doubt took evolution some time to 'select for'. He said it would prevent any dental problems later on. I was 45 at the time and had never had any problems with my wisdom teeth. I'm now 83 and except for having one crowned have never had a problem with them. Why would a strong believer in evolution want to thwart one of its successful accomplishments?

It's not undesirable traits, it is traits that give an advantage in certain situations that ensure survival during food shortages is what drives evolution.

 

[Woodznutz]

It's not undesirable traits, it is traits that give an advantage in certain situations that ensure survival during food shortages is what drives evolution.

We must be facing such food shortages in the near future based on the sheer number of overweight people in the world, who are clearly preparing themselves for it.

 

[westwall]

We must be facing such food shortages in the near future based on the sheer number of overweight people in the world, who are clearly preparing themselves for it.

Being fat isn't a survival trait. Being able to obtain food in difficult situations is.

All Being fat does is allow you to survive a little longer. But not long enough to really matter. A few weeks at most.

 

[Woodznutz]

Being fat isn't a survival trait. Being able to obtain food in difficult situations is.

All Being fat does is allow you to survive a little longer. But not long enough to really matter. A few weeks at most.

I dunno. Remember that guy who didn't eat for a year, just water and vitamins.

Many are fat enough to actually hibernate like bears do. Maybe they evolved from bears.

 

[westwall]

I dunno. Remember that guy who didn't eat for a year, just water and vitamins.

Many are fat enough to actually hibernate like bears do. Maybe they evolved from bears.

Yeah, there is no evidence to support that claim.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah, there is no evidence to support that claim.

There's evidence for the guy who didn't eat for a year.

Did an Obese Man Survive Without Eating for 382 Days?

In 1965, an obese man actually survived without eating for over a year, living entirely off his body fat and supplemental vitamins.

www.snopes.com

 

[westwall]

There's evidence for the guy who didn't eat for a year.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/s...b] of weight with no adverse effects.[/Forte!

http://Snopes isn't credible.

 

[alang1216]

Both would be staggeringly complex, but only one is likely.

Since I've never encountered anything provably supernatural, the likely answer to me would be nature.

The best argument against human evolution is that we don't act as if we are product of evolution. We do however act according to what is revealed about us in the Bible.

How would we act if we are product of evolution? How do we act that is in accord with what is revealed about us in the Bible?

 

[Woodznutz]

How would we act if we are product of evolution?

In harmony with nature like the millions of other creatures that have supposedly evolved.

How do we act that is in accord with what is revealed about us in the Bible?

Evil, self-destructive, nonsensical.

 

[alang1216]

In harmony with nature like the millions of other creatures that have supposedly evolved.

How are we NOT in harmony with nature?

Evil, self-destructive, nonsensical.

So God created evil, self-destructive, nonsensical beings in his image? That is your defense of creationism? Pretty thin.

 

[Woodznutz]

How are we NOT in harmony with nature?

We're not in harmony with our own bodies, much less nature. We are destroying both.

So God created evil, self-destructive, nonsensical beings in his image? That is your defense of creationism? Pretty thin.

We, like Lucifer, were created perfect, "until iniquity was found in us".

 

[zaangalewa]

Staggering complexity is an argument against supernatural design.

Indeed it's exactly in the opposite. Entropie grows - so complexity should sink. And our whole universe (= the nature) came from an unknown "supernatural" (= metapysical) situation which we currently are only able to describe with the word "nothing". Once was no space, no time and no energy - "suddenly" a universe started to expand and entropie started to sink. And into this "chaos" life was born on a little unimportant planet. No guarantee that more life exists in the whole universe. (Physically life is the highest form of complex and dynamic matter which we know).

 

[Woodznutz]

Indeed it's exactly in the opposite. Entropie grows - so complexity should sink. And our whole universe (= the nature) came from an unknown "supernatural" (= metapysical) situation which we currently are only able to describe with the word "nothing". Once was no space, no time and no energy - "suddenly" a universe started to expand and entropie started to sink. And into this "chaos" life was born on a little unimportant planet. No guarantee that more life exists in the whole universe. (Physically life is the highest form of complex and dynamic matter which we know).

Science is already bumping against the supernatural.
God will reveal it to them in time.