Evidence That Moses Existed

[Indeependent]

Evidence That Moses Existed

groups.google.com

Several ancient writers mentioned him

Oh brother----bad news for you. The word MOSES means SON. Yeah----their were all sorts of MOSES's.

Mow-Sheh is an Egyptian word meaning "Drawn from", as in drawn from the Nile.

 

[Indeependent]

Why do people think he didn't exist?

Umm..think he existed but that he wasn't a magical being. Some son of somebody who tall tales were made up about is all.

This said---like to keep things in the SIMPLE TRUTH form---simple truth is Moses means son....so likely the real moses had his fathers name in front of moses or he was just a bastard who everyone called son because he could have been anyone's.

Nowhere in the Torah is Moshe described as being anything other than a human.
There is not one aberration of nature in the Torah that is attributed to Moshe, only to God.

 

[ReinyDays]

That's what I took from your conclusion that Moses wasn't a historical figure.

Ok Boomer ...

 

[ding]

Nothing wrong with mythology, or the oral tradition ... fathers telling sons tall tales with important moral lessons ... on the other end is written history ... some bloke keeping a diary ... scribes and clerics ... someone whose job is to record the events of the day ...

You should read Maimonides commentary on prophets and the need for prophets in "The Guide for the Perplexed." It's a most interesting read. The bottom line is that it should be expected that some will have a greater talent than others and that those without those talents are in need of being taught and that the prophets used allegory in teaching those lessons to simplify the lesson being taught. Or something to that effect.

 

[ding]

That's what I took from your conclusion that Moses wasn't a historical figure.

Ok Boomer ...

Well, what did you mean when you said Moses isn't a historical figure?

 

[ding]

Technically I straddle Boomers and Gen X. God gave me the best of each.

 

[Turtlesoup]

That isnt evidence.
The people that are mentioned live after Moses. By a thousand years...

There's absolutely no contemporaneous evidence of Moses or the Hebrews in Egypt ... this is mythology ...

Legend begins with the divided Kingdoms of Judea and Israel ... of David's Judea, we have abundant archeological evidence ... however, nothing of Israel ... it's existence appears to be an exaggeration ... we can speculate the Hebrews wish to claim the lands for themselves and created a fake kingdom to justify a hostile take-over ... but if we're speculating, might as well bring Martians in, eh? ...

History begins with the Roman conquest of The Levant ...

I have heard there is evidence of Hebrews, who had settled on the northern boundaries of Egypt, being hauled into the forced temple building and there has been ancient Hebrew graffitti found on the walls of a tomb somewhere. The parting of the Red Sea was probably low tide during a time of low river levels--they walked across the mud flats.

I love this stuff. Okay MAYBE he wasn't found in a basket in the bullrushes and taken home to be adopted by the royal family, and maybe God didn't send the plagues, but the jews didn't make up being in bondage in Egypt, for heaven's sake, or taking advantage of a moment of chaos in Egypt caused by disasters to get the hell out. For this small wandering group to not know where to go for awhile, that makes sense, too. Sure some of it is legend, but there are kernels of historical fact in there, too. I'd bank on it.

Actually they did find writing (graffitti) in the temples and pyramids of old----------Upon further investigation, they discovered that it was actually a type of "tagging" of the work or signature of the group of men who cut and placed the stones used for building. What they also discovered is that slaves (christian/jew or otherwise) did not build the great pyramids and old temples---but paid work crews who lived and often died nearby in mini-cities (not exactly temp cities as it took so long to build)...their gravesites have been a treasure trove of information.

But yes I agree---a Moses or several moses likely existed with some basis in fact for the Hebrew stories of their moses. I also think that Noah and even Jesus existed to some degree to which their stories are based on. I am absolutely sure Noah wasn't the name of the real NOAH though considering that other stories of Noah are much older than the hebrew version and use other different names.

 

[Indeependent]

... For this small wandering group to not know where to go for awhile ...

If we take Exodus at face value, then we should take Numbers at face value:

Numbers Chap 1:
45 - So were all those that were numbered of the children of Israel, by the house of their fathers, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war in Israel;
46 - Even all they that were numbered were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.
47 - But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

603,550 able bodied men ... the Hebrews who fled Egypt numbered over a million ... not counting the Levites ... thus the question why NOBODY recorded this ...

Who records that they got their asses kicked?

 

[Turtlesoup]

... For this small wandering group to not know where to go for awhile ...

If we take Exodus at face value, then we should take Numbers at face value:

Numbers Chap 1:
45 - So were all those that were numbered of the children of Israel, by the house of their fathers, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war in Israel;
46 - Even all they that were numbered were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.
47 - But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

603,550 able bodied men ... the Hebrews who fled Egypt numbered over a million ... not counting the Levites ... thus the question why NOBODY recorded this ...

If True-------------their migration would have scarred the earth and i know there have been archaelogical digs searching for the evidence----there is none. In all likelihood---a smaller number of people (like a family/extended family--small village CARAVAN) exited Egypt not a million people. Then Old Lady's imput of likely during low tide would have been play as well-----

People are funny----Most all tend to embellish stories as they tell them over and over and over and over. Generations later and hundreds of years later when the stories are finally written down---------would never ever be the same as what really happened.

 

[yidnar]

... For this small wandering group to not know where to go for awhile ...

If we take Exodus at face value, then we should take Numbers at face value:

Numbers Chap 1:
45 - So were all those that were numbered of the children of Israel, by the house of their fathers, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war in Israel;
46 - Even all they that were numbered were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.
47 - But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

603,550 able bodied men ... the Hebrews who fled Egypt numbered over a million ... not counting the Levites ... thus the question why NOBODY recorded this ...

apparently the Hebrews recorded it !

 

[Turtlesoup]

Evidence That Moses Existed

groups.google.com

Several ancient writers mentioned him

oh my god,we are in whats probably are last days because a commie about to take over the country and you guys are sitting here arguing about moses? oh my god. i am at a lost of words.

We are not arguing---we are discussing the historical context of biblical times. We still argue about politics not history.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Why do people think he didn't exist?

Mostly atheists who want to discredit all religion.

viktor, I am an atheist. We are not all monolithic. I need no god to make me behave or to make me feel safe------------nor do I need others to believe as I do. I think most people need something to believe in------For me it is cold hard Facts not hope or faith-----but think most people need a god for a variety of reasons. We are simply discussing the history surrounding the bible and its stories.

 

[Turtlesoup]

That isnt evidence.
The people that are mentioned live after Moses. By a thousand years...
Probably retelling Jewish tales.
The books that were mentioned, are Jewish books.
I didnt make it past the first paragraph.
This thread is fake news.

What evidence are you expecting?

Anything.

As has already been pointed out the Egyptians didn't build monuments to commemorate defeats. So you shouldn't be expecting that as evidence, right?

If you can't name one thing you would expect to find, then there may be nothing you would expect to find. Which is why we shouldn't dismiss oral tradition on the grounds that there is no contemporaneous evidence. There is none because none would be expected.

Migration of a million people would have left the earth scarred which would still be able to see today much like the wagon trails in the US heading West.

 

[Indeependent]

That isnt evidence.
The people that are mentioned live after Moses. By a thousand years...
Probably retelling Jewish tales.
The books that were mentioned, are Jewish books.
I didnt make it past the first paragraph.
This thread is fake news.

What evidence are you expecting?

Anything.

As has already been pointed out the Egyptians didn't build monuments to commemorate defeats. So you shouldn't be expecting that as evidence, right?

If you can't name one thing you would expect to find, then there may be nothing you would expect to find. Which is why we shouldn't dismiss oral tradition on the grounds that there is no contemporaneous evidence. There is none because none would be expected.

Migration of a million people would have left the earth scarred which would still be able to see today much like the wagon trails in the US heading West.

The Clouds of Glory.

 

[ding]

That isnt evidence.
The people that are mentioned live after Moses. By a thousand years...
Probably retelling Jewish tales.
The books that were mentioned, are Jewish books.
I didnt make it past the first paragraph.
This thread is fake news.

What evidence are you expecting?

Anything.

As has already been pointed out the Egyptians didn't build monuments to commemorate defeats. So you shouldn't be expecting that as evidence, right?

If you can't name one thing you would expect to find, then there may be nothing you would expect to find. Which is why we shouldn't dismiss oral tradition on the grounds that there is no contemporaneous evidence. There is none because none would be expected.

Migration of a million people would have left the earth scarred which would still be able to see today much like the wagon trails in the US heading West.

Not likely.

"..I respect Professor Sperling and Rabbi Wolpe. They were understandably following the claims of some of our archaeologists. Those archaeologists’ claims that the Exodus never happened are not based on evidence, but largely on its absence. They assert that we’ve combed the Sinai and not found any evidence of the mass of millions of people whom the Bible says were there for 40 years. That assertion is just not true. There have not been many major excavations in the Sinai, and we most certainly have not combed it. Moreover, uncovering objects buried 3,200 years ago is a daunting endeavor. An Israeli colleague laughingly told me that a vehicle that had been lost in the 1973 Yom Kippur War was recently uncovered under 16 meters—that’s 52 feet—of sand. Fifty-two feet in 40 years!.."

The Exodus Is Not Fiction

There is archaeological evidence and especially textual evidence for the Exodus, if it was a smaller group who left Egypt.

reformjudaism.org

 

[Turtlesoup]

Evidence That Moses Existed

groups.google.com

Several ancient writers mentioned him

Oh brother----bad news for you. The word MOSES means SON. Yeah----their were all sorts of MOSES's.

Mow-Sheh is an Egyptian word meaning "Drawn from", as in drawn from the Nile.

Mow-Sheh?

These were Egyptian hebrews--so moses is a thought to be a derivative of the Egyptian Hebrew word MES for son...which makes sense given the names we see of ancient Egypt and that realize that ancient times were always in most civilized cultures obsessed with the sun and the son as far gods went.

Meaning, origin and history of the name Moses

The meaning, origin and history of the given name Moses

www.behindthename.com

 

[Indeependent]

Evidence That Moses Existed

groups.google.com

Several ancient writers mentioned him

Oh brother----bad news for you. The word MOSES means SON. Yeah----their were all sorts of MOSES's.

Mow-Sheh is an Egyptian word meaning "Drawn from", as in drawn from the Nile.

Mow-Sheh?

These were Egyptian hebrews--so moses is a thought to be a derivative of the Egyptian Hebrew word MES for son...which makes sense given the names we see of ancient Egypt and that realize that ancient times were always in most civilized cultures obsessed with the sun and the son as far gods went.

Meaning, origin and history of the name Moses

The meaning, origin and history of the given name Moses

www.behindthename.com

Nope...The sister or daughter of Paroah named Moshe; Moshe's parents named him Tuvia, meaning "Good".
It's right there in the verses.

 

[ReinyDays]

Well, what did you mean when you said Moses isn't a historical figure?

There's no widespread accounting of him in the region ... as I said above, folks writing down the day-to-day activities of their community ... scribes and clerics ... from a body of writings we can construct a written history of the times ... then match the archeological evidence for the deeper understanding of the times ...

We have only the one narrative, that alone doesn't establish verifiable facts ... go back to the desert and keep digging ... [giggle] ...

 

[Turtlesoup]

That isnt evidence.
The people that are mentioned live after Moses. By a thousand years...
Probably retelling Jewish tales.
The books that were mentioned, are Jewish books.
I didnt make it past the first paragraph.
This thread is fake news.

What evidence are you expecting?

Anything.

As has already been pointed out the Egyptians didn't build monuments to commemorate defeats. So you shouldn't be expecting that as evidence, right?

If you can't name one thing you would expect to find, then there may be nothing you would expect to find. Which is why we shouldn't dismiss oral tradition on the grounds that there is no contemporaneous evidence. There is none because none would be expected.

Migration of a million people would have left the earth scarred which would still be able to see today much like the wagon trails in the US heading West.

The Clouds of Glory.

Hmmm...that could be taken a couple of different ways.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Evidence That Moses Existed

groups.google.com

Several ancient writers mentioned him

Oh brother----bad news for you. The word MOSES means SON. Yeah----their were all sorts of MOSES's.

Mow-Sheh is an Egyptian word meaning "Drawn from", as in drawn from the Nile.

Mow-Sheh?

These were Egyptian hebrews--so moses is a thought to be a derivative of the Egyptian Hebrew word MES for son...which makes sense given the names we see of ancient Egypt and that realize that ancient times were always in most civilized cultures obsessed with the sun and the son as far gods went.

Meaning, origin and history of the name Moses

The meaning, origin and history of the given name Moses

www.behindthename.com

Nope...The sister or daughter of Paroah named Moshe; Moshe's parents named him Tuvia, meaning "Good".
It's right there in the verses.

And MOSES means son---which is right there in the name.