Everyone keeps saying what foreigners saw and thought of the attack on the Capitol but they leave out the most important thing.

[Bush92]

The people spoke, a few of them took it too far and the world watched.

Yea...that whole murder and desecration of democracy thing was just a little too much

Go pray for that lump of shit George Floyd you common asshole.

 

[Care4all]

You know history? Wasn’t trumps coup attempt very similar to hitlers attempt in the 20s? Hitler went to jail for it and still was somehow able to take over ten years later. We shouldn’t downplay what he did. It was treason.

It's not treason to believe you were cheated and bitch about it on Twitter.

You are right. But to tell your supporters to storm the capitol and tell them weakness won’t do it?

And he fired them up by feeding them lies.

Trump doesn’t really believe the election was rigged. He was claiming 2016 was rigged too before it was over. No matter what trump was going to claim it was rigged if he lost.

No one action of trumps is treason by itself. Add it all up and it’s treason. From calling the ukraine president trying to get him to help him cheat, to calling the Georgia governor and asking him to help him cheat. It’s treason.

You guys worshipped a treason isn’t bastard. History will compare you with nazis

Try again. The person who claimed getting out in the street and RIOTING---vandalizing, murdering and looting FOR THE SAKE OF "PROGRESS" was kamala-hump. I am vainly
looking for information on the VANDALIZING and LOOTING of the
Capitol Building. I am horrified that a police officer got hit in the head and
later died-----but there seems to be a BLACKOUT on who done and how it
happened. I also wonder how many people died in the past week at the hands
BLM scum whilst kamala-hump cackled. I have no hope of ever finding this
information

That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist

T.
"That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to what issue or statement do you address this utterly non-specific
remark, booboo ???

You traitors try to pull a coup and you want to deflect to blm?

Fox told them to.... every show had a segment on this deflection to other riots with them claiming we ignored it, Yet....without FOX covering all the video on this seditionist riot and coup at our capitol.....

Talk about hypocrites!

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a foreigner.
I think the election was stolen. Sure of it.
I think the U.S has been commandeered by oligarchs and big corporations working with corrupt politiicians.
I think the reaction to what basically is a coup has been extremely tame (broken window, door panel).
I think America is now one of the most draconian countries in the western world. Your freedom is gone. Free speech is gone. Democracy is gone.

And with what proof do you base your conclusions?

Plenty.
But I will give you just one.
I can go online and question the result of any election in any country at any point in history.....except the U.S 2020 election.

Us liberals questioned the results in 2000, 2004 and even in 2016. We did not get our recounts. Diebold voting machines were hacked. And yet we didn’t storm the Florida recount in 2000. Oh wait, that was you guys.

Trump had exhausted all his options. If pence wouldn’t even go along, fuck off you lost.

Look. We can go around in circles all day. Republicans were not asking for much. Just a full audit. It could have been done in 2 or 3 days, and you could have proved there was no fraud and the country moves on. But by refusing, even going to court to block the audit, you just set the scene for 4 years of division. Now 50% of the country doesnt see Biden as legit. He will never be able to go walkabouts, visit a car factory in Michigan, meet and greet etc without being harangued and ridiculed. The audit was the peacemaker, and that boat has sailed.

Wait a second! In 2015 trump said he would release his taxes after an audit and that it wouldn’t take long. 4 years later that audit isn’t done.

Trump tried every tactic he could to delay delay delay. He wanted it to go to the Supreme Court where they would give him the election. Or have it come down to a 50 vote house vote.Or have a redo in AZ, GA, MI, WI and PA.

We already know your entire gameplan because Rudy went on fox and told us. He was an idiot

 

[sealybobo]

The people spoke, a few of them took it too far and the world watched.

Yea...that whole murder and desecration of democracy thing was just a little too much

Go pray for that lump of shit George Floyd you common asshole.

And you pray for that retired air force woman who cops shot at the capitol because she wasn’t obeying their lawful commands.

 

[Lysistrata]

The United States has always held itself out to the world as exceptional. We Americans (with apologies to citizens of other countries also in North America) have long been taught that we are exceptional. trump and his ilk have now shown the world that we are NOT exceptional. Scenes of marauders violently breaking into our national house of democracy in an attempt to disrupt our lawmakers carrying out the sacred duties of the United States Constitution have been broadcast across the globe. What are we supposed to say to our allies and other people across the world, that we lied? trump hasn't destroyed us as a nation, but he has destroyed our credibility.

 

[Foreigner Looking In.]

I'm a foreigner.
I think the election was stolen. Sure of it.
I think the U.S has been commandeered by oligarchs and big corporations working with corrupt politiicians.
I think the reaction to what basically is a coup has been extremely tame (broken window, door panel).
I think America is now one of the most draconian countries in the western world. Your freedom is gone. Free speech is gone. Democracy is gone.

And with what proof do you base your conclusions?

Plenty.
But I will give you just one.
I can go online and question the result of any election in any country at any point in history.....except the U.S 2020 election.

Us liberals questioned the results in 2000, 2004 and even in 2016. We did not get our recounts. Diebold voting machines were hacked. And yet we didn’t storm the Florida recount in 2000. Oh wait, that was you guys.

Trump had exhausted all his options. If pence wouldn’t even go along, fuck off you lost.

Look. We can go around in circles all day. Republicans were not asking for much. Just a full audit. It could have been done in 2 or 3 days, and you could have proved there was no fraud and the country moves on. But by refusing, even going to court to block the audit, you just set the scene for 4 years of division. Now 50% of the country doesnt see Biden as legit. He will never be able to go walkabouts, visit a car factory in Michigan, meet and greet etc without being harangued and ridiculed. The audit was the peacemaker, and that boat has sailed.

Wait a second! In 2015 trump said he would release his taxes after an audit and that it wouldn’t take long. 4 years later that audit isn’t done.

Trump tried every tactic he could to delay delay delay. He wanted it to go to the Supreme Court where they would give him the election. Or have it come down to a 50 vote house vote.Or have a redo in AZ, GA, MI, WI and PA.

We already know your entire gameplan because Rudy went on fox and told us. He was an idiot

He said he would release his tax audit when Hillary reveals her emails.
The electoral audit would have taken 2-3 days and been a peacemaker. That the Dems fought to stop it was foolosh. They have the blood from the Capital on their hands. Not Trump.

 

[Care4all]

So, when is trump going to grant pardons for his kids and son in law and Giuliani for their crimes, and these insurrectionists that are arrested for Wednesday's actions at the Capitol?

And grant HIMSELF with a pardon for his own crimes?

 

[sealybobo]

The United States has always held itself out to the world as exceptional. We Americans (with apologies to citizens of other countries also in North America) have long been taught that we are exceptional. trump and his ilk have now shown the world that we are NOT exceptional. Scenes of marauders violently breaking into our national house of democracy in an attempt to disrupt our lawmakers carrying out the sacred duties of the United States Constitution have been broadcast across the globe. What are we supposed to say to our allies and other people across the world, that we lied? trump hasn't destroyed us as a nation, but he has destroyed our credibility.

Or worse. If trump is right we don’t even have free and fair elections.

This is why gore shut his mouth and took the ass rape he got in Florida via jeb bush and Diebold voting machines. Everyone else told him to give it up. It’s too important that the rest of the world believes that we have free and fair elections.

I don’t believe democrats with the help of globalist republicans stole the 2020 elections but I do believe bush and his brother stole Florida with a little help from the Supreme Court. Luckily this election wasn’t close enough for trump to steal.

Lets take this opportunity to all agree we need to do away with electronic voting machines. Or better yet, use them to verify the hand recount. One republican and one democrat and one independent counts the votes. So one precinct might have 50 democrats republicans and independents counting the votes in a precinct to get it done quickly?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a foreigner.
I think the election was stolen. Sure of it.
I think the U.S has been commandeered by oligarchs and big corporations working with corrupt politiicians.
I think the reaction to what basically is a coup has been extremely tame (broken window, door panel).
I think America is now one of the most draconian countries in the western world. Your freedom is gone. Free speech is gone. Democracy is gone.

And with what proof do you base your conclusions?

Plenty.
But I will give you just one.
I can go online and question the result of any election in any country at any point in history.....except the U.S 2020 election.

Us liberals questioned the results in 2000, 2004 and even in 2016. We did not get our recounts. Diebold voting machines were hacked. And yet we didn’t storm the Florida recount in 2000. Oh wait, that was you guys.

Trump had exhausted all his options. If pence wouldn’t even go along, fuck off you lost.

Look. We can go around in circles all day. Republicans were not asking for much. Just a full audit. It could have been done in 2 or 3 days, and you could have proved there was no fraud and the country moves on. But by refusing, even going to court to block the audit, you just set the scene for 4 years of division. Now 50% of the country doesnt see Biden as legit. He will never be able to go walkabouts, visit a car factory in Michigan, meet and greet etc without being harangued and ridiculed. The audit was the peacemaker, and that boat has sailed.

Wait a second! In 2015 trump said he would release his taxes after an audit and that it wouldn’t take long. 4 years later that audit isn’t done.

Trump tried every tactic he could to delay delay delay. He wanted it to go to the Supreme Court where they would give him the election. Or have it come down to a 50 vote house vote.Or have a redo in AZ, GA, MI, WI and PA.

We already know your entire gameplan because Rudy went on fox and told us. He was an idiot

He said he would release his tax audit when Hillary reveals her emails.
The electoral audit would have taken 2-3 days and been a peacemaker. That the Dems fought to stop it was foolosh. They have the blood from the Capital on their hands. Not Trump.

Idiot! What country do you live in?

 

[Lesh]

I'm a foreigner.
I think the election was stolen. Sure of it.
I think the U.S has been commandeered by oligarchs and big corporations working with corrupt politiicians.
I think the reaction to what basically is a coup has been extremely tame (broken window, door panel).
I think America is now one of the most draconian countries in the western world. Your freedom is gone. Free speech is gone. Democracy is gone.

And with what proof do you base your conclusions?

Plenty.
But I will give you just one.
I can go online and question the result of any election in any country at any point in history.....except the U.S 2020 election.

Us liberals questioned the results in 2000, 2004 and even in 2016. We did not get our recounts. Diebold voting machines were hacked. And yet we didn’t storm the Florida recount in 2000. Oh wait, that was you guys.

Trump had exhausted all his options. If pence wouldn’t even go along, fuck off you lost.

Look. We can go around in circles all day. Republicans were not asking for much. Just a full audit. It could have been done in 2 or 3 days, and you could have proved there was no fraud and the country moves on. But by refusing, even going to court to block the audit, you just set the scene for 4 years of division. Now 50% of the country doesnt see Biden as legit. He will never be able to go walkabouts, visit a car factory in Michigan, meet and greet etc without being harangued and ridiculed. The audit was the peacemaker, and that boat has sailed.

Wait a second! In 2015 trump said he would release his taxes after an audit and that it wouldn’t take long. 4 years later that audit isn’t done.

Trump tried every tactic he could to delay delay delay. He wanted it to go to the Supreme Court where they would give him the election. Or have it come down to a 50 vote house vote.Or have a redo in AZ, GA, MI, WI and PA.

We already know your entire gameplan because Rudy went on fox and told us. He was an idiot

He said he would release his tax audit when Hillary reveals her emails.
The electoral audit would have taken 2-3 days and been a peacemaker. That the Dems fought to stop it was foolosh. They have the blood from the Capital on their hands. Not Trump.

He said all sorts of shit

None of it true. He was never going to release his taxes

 

[22lcidw]

You know history? Wasn’t trumps coup attempt very similar to hitlers attempt in the 20s? Hitler went to jail for it and still was somehow able to take over ten years later. We shouldn’t downplay what he did. It was treason.

It's not treason to believe you were cheated and bitch about it on Twitter.

You are right. But to tell your supporters to storm the capitol and tell them weakness won’t do it?

And he fired them up by feeding them lies.

Trump doesn’t really believe the election was rigged. He was claiming 2016 was rigged too before it was over. No matter what trump was going to claim it was rigged if he lost.

No one action of trumps is treason by itself. Add it all up and it’s treason. From calling the ukraine president trying to get him to help him cheat, to calling the Georgia governor and asking him to help him cheat. It’s treason.

You guys worshipped a treason isn’t bastard. History will compare you with nazis

Try again. The person who claimed getting out in the street and RIOTING---vandalizing, murdering and looting FOR THE SAKE OF "PROGRESS" was kamala-hump. I am vainly
looking for information on the VANDALIZING and LOOTING of the
Capitol Building. I am horrified that a police officer got hit in the head and
later died-----but there seems to be a BLACKOUT on who done and how it
happened. I also wonder how many people died in the past week at the hands
BLM scum whilst kamala-hump cackled. I have no hope of ever finding this
information

That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist

T.
"That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to what issue or statement do you address this utterly non-specific
remark, booboo ???

You traitors try to pull a coup and you want to deflect to blm?

Fox told them to.... every show had a segment on this deflection to other riots with them claiming we ignored it, Yet....without FOX covering all the video on this seditionist riot and coup at our capitol.....

Talk about hypocrites!

I was waiting for the women of the View to tell us how we should do things in this nasty mean world. Of course when it comes to pure socialism, they get a higher cut of the pies. Just one of the thousands and thousands of Prog shill programs on TV. Talk about people who make suckers of us while they live in mansions and live like the best in the world. If you kill them and the entertainers and the media as a gift to the Deplorables, many of us will then start to believe you. And they for their faith in the secular globalist Progressive Socialist State, will gladly give their lives up for that if true to it. Agree!

 

[Lesh]

You know history? Wasn’t trumps coup attempt very similar to hitlers attempt in the 20s? Hitler went to jail for it and still was somehow able to take over ten years later. We shouldn’t downplay what he did. It was treason.

It's not treason to believe you were cheated and bitch about it on Twitter.

You are right. But to tell your supporters to storm the capitol and tell them weakness won’t do it?

And he fired them up by feeding them lies.

Trump doesn’t really believe the election was rigged. He was claiming 2016 was rigged too before it was over. No matter what trump was going to claim it was rigged if he lost.

No one action of trumps is treason by itself. Add it all up and it’s treason. From calling the ukraine president trying to get him to help him cheat, to calling the Georgia governor and asking him to help him cheat. It’s treason.

You guys worshipped a treason isn’t bastard. History will compare you with nazis

Try again. The person who claimed getting out in the street and RIOTING---vandalizing, murdering and looting FOR THE SAKE OF "PROGRESS" was kamala-hump. I am vainly
looking for information on the VANDALIZING and LOOTING of the
Capitol Building. I am horrified that a police officer got hit in the head and
later died-----but there seems to be a BLACKOUT on who done and how it
happened. I also wonder how many people died in the past week at the hands
BLM scum whilst kamala-hump cackled. I have no hope of ever finding this
information

That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist

T.
"That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to what issue or statement do you address this utterly non-specific
remark, booboo ???

You traitors try to pull a coup and you want to deflect to blm?

Fox told them to.... every show had a segment on this deflection to other riots with them claiming we ignored it, Yet....without FOX covering all the video on this seditionist riot and coup at our capitol.....

Talk about hypocrites!

I was waiting for the women of the View to tell us how we should do things in this nasty mean world. Of course when it comes to pure socialism, they get a higher cut of the pies. Just one of the thousands and thousands of Prog shill programs on TV. Talk about people who make suckers of us while they live in mansions and live like the best in the world. If you kill them and the entertainers and the media as a gift to the Deplorables, many of us will then start to believe you. And they for their faith in the secular globalist Progressive Socialist State, will gladly give their lives up for that if true to it. Agree!

What are you whining about now snowflake??

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

What it showed was people who let others misinform them to the point that they became berserkers. Trump will never ever set foot into the White House or any bunch of the US as an elected official because he was the head of this misinformation, and the same goes for his cohorts in his crime.

When speaking the truth is a "crime" then it's criminals who are making the rules.

Maybe you should extract your head from your ass so you can see things in a more clear way?

 

[Moonglow]

What it showed was people who let others misinform them to the point that they became berserkers. Trump will never ever set foot into the White House or any bunch of the US as an elected official because he was the head of this misinformation, and the same goes for his cohorts in his crime.

When speaking the truth is a "crime" then it's criminals who are making the rules.

Maybe you should extract your head from your ass so you can see things in a more clear way?

The truth is you live on the word of a known convicted liar and fraudster, that my friend is yer folly not mine. I follow no one and trust no one because I know exactly how humans behave.

 

[Moonglow]

You know history? Wasn’t trumps coup attempt very similar to hitlers attempt in the 20s? Hitler went to jail for it and still was somehow able to take over ten years later. We shouldn’t downplay what he did. It was treason.

It's not treason to believe you were cheated and bitch about it on Twitter.

You are right. But to tell your supporters to storm the capitol and tell them weakness won’t do it?

And he fired them up by feeding them lies.

Trump doesn’t really believe the election was rigged. He was claiming 2016 was rigged too before it was over. No matter what trump was going to claim it was rigged if he lost.

No one action of trumps is treason by itself. Add it all up and it’s treason. From calling the ukraine president trying to get him to help him cheat, to calling the Georgia governor and asking him to help him cheat. It’s treason.

You guys worshipped a treason isn’t bastard. History will compare you with nazis

Try again. The person who claimed getting out in the street and RIOTING---vandalizing, murdering and looting FOR THE SAKE OF "PROGRESS" was kamala-hump. I am vainly
looking for information on the VANDALIZING and LOOTING of the
Capitol Building. I am horrified that a police officer got hit in the head and
later died-----but there seems to be a BLACKOUT on who done and how it
happened. I also wonder how many people died in the past week at the hands
BLM scum whilst kamala-hump cackled. I have no hope of ever finding this
information

That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist

T.
"That’s because what you said is the ramblings of a pathetic lunatic racist"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to what issue or statement do you address this utterly non-specific
remark, booboo ???

You traitors try to pull a coup and you want to deflect to blm?

Fox told them to.... every show had a segment on this deflection to other riots with them claiming we ignored it, Yet....without FOX covering all the video on this seditionist riot and coup at our capitol.....

Talk about hypocrites!

I was waiting for the women of the View to tell us how we should do things in this nasty mean world. Of course when it comes to pure socialism, they get a higher cut of the pies. Just one of the thousands and thousands of Prog shill programs on TV. Talk about people who make suckers of us while they live in mansions and live like the best in the world. If you kill them and the entertainers and the media as a gift to the Deplorables, many of us will then start to believe you. And they for their faith in the secular globalist Progressive Socialist State, will gladly give their lives up for that if true to it. Agree!

Is that a long winded version of what is happening now under capitalism?

 

[Care4all]

Without accountability, we can not heal and move on.

Just letting this attempted coup go without accountability is simply wrong.... letting the trumpets attacking our nation's capital be the only ones held accountable for what Trump and others incited, is wrong.

We some times, have to do things that are hard....

Biden camp doesn't want to be tied down with Trump indictments, and republicans in office want us to now move on and heal.....

Easy peasey blah blah blah.....

That can not be done, without accountability imo.... it would be a "pretend" heal....

Also, their needs to be a 9/11 type commission on the election results for the trumpers to see the TRUTH.... they've been so brainwashed the election was stolen.... They need to be shown the truth.

 

[toobfreak]

Was this situation acceptable? Of course not but at the end of the day our democracy is still standing.

You think democracy is still standing? You ARE a fool. There is no democrat when a party can repeatedly misuse its power to affect elections to its liking, then use the media it controls to vilify those who would EXPOSE the crime while muzzling their detractors.

Anyone could plainly see the way this election was co-opted for the Democrat's purposes was a train wreck, yet they did it anyway. Jimmy Carter predicted it 15 years ago.

For two months after the election, those affected tried EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE to seek legal and peaceful redress within our system and were BLOCKED and DENIED.

So now finally, the people of this country within whom the ultimate power of government is SUPPOSED to reside tried going outside the system as a last ditch desperate attempt to save the country. I can't say what went right or wrong about it because I wasn't there to see it all what REALLY happened personally, but the one thing I know is that NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED except for the Democrats and their utterly blind contempt for President Trump and absolute zeal to see him removed by all means necessary (their words).

And while no one in the media asks the OBVIOUS questions or makes the obvious points of what caused this all the while distracting by trying to attack the people who TRIED to act, the one thing that is clear is that the far left radicals within the DNC and their cohorts within Google, Apple and Amazon have opened a bottomless chasm now in this country that is NOT GOING AWAY and will now only open wider and wider under the feet of the illegal Biden Administration in 2021.

Good luck with that.

 

[AMart]

What it showed was people who let others misinform them to the point that they became berserkers. Trump will never ever set foot into the White House or any bunch of the US as an elected official because he was the head of this misinformation, and the same goes for his cohorts in his crime.

That’s what they said about Hitler when they put him in jail in the 1920s then 10 years later he took over.

Will another white supremists ever again be the gop nominee? Chances are the next one won’t be as obvious.

= W. Civilzation. If white supremacy is widespread and bad what would you replace it with? Be specific.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The people spoke, a few of them took it too far and the world watched.

Including those who mock democracy. Problem is democracy is still standing and our government didn't have to kill everyone or imprison them for that to occur.

Was this situation acceptable? Of course not but at the end of the day our democracy is still standing.

Of course internally we are & will always squabble about the state of our democracy and many believe it to be dead already. Having that or any opinion of it doesn't make it so.

One final point for me is that it ultimately doesn't matter what some foreigner thinks or says. Their thoughts are not necessary for our prosperity. The sooner we realize that the better.

Well. Our Republic...ahem...is in grave danger. What we're witnessng is a patently Marxist revolution. Representatives sent by most states are grossly incompetent and lack any intellectual understanding of the traditional American system of governance or even a remedial understanding of our founding documents. Oaths are effectively moot in that regard.

Placing that aside, I'm confident that anyone who watched that circus go down knows in the back of their minds that those people who took part in it aren't the people the establishment is worried about.

If there really ever is a showdown in this country, it won't be led by some cartoon character in a viking costume. Those folks were playing the role of useful idiot. And congress loves them for it. Foreign nations, particularly their leaders and government bodies, are intelligent enough to see what really went down on that day.

 

[Care4all]

Was this situation acceptable? Of course not but at the end of the day our democracy is still standing.

You think democracy is still standing? You ARE a fool. There is no democrat when a party can repeatedly misuse its power to affect elections to its liking, then use the media it controls to vilify those who would EXPOSE the crime while muzzling their detractors.

Anyone could plainly see the way this election was co-opted for the Democrat's purposes was a train wreck, yet they did it anyway. Jimmy Carter predicted it 15 years ago.

For two months after the election, those affected tried EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE to seek legal and peaceful redress within our system and were BLOCKED and DENIED.

So now finally, the people of this country within whom the ultimate power of government is SUPPOSED to reside tried going outside the system as a last ditch desperate attempt to save the country. I can't say what went right or wrong about it because I wasn't there to see it all what REALLY happened personally, but the one thing I know is that NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED except for the Democrats and their utterly blind contempt for President Trump and absolute zeal to see him removed by all means necessary (their words).

And while no one in the media asks the OBVIOUS questions or makes the obvious points of what caused this all the while distracting by trying to attack the people who TRIED to act, the one thing that is clear is that the far left radicals within the DNC and their cohorts within Google, Apple and Amazon have opened a bottomless chasm now in this country that is NOT GOING AWAY and will now only open wider and wider under the feet of the illegal Biden Administration in 2021.

Good luck with that.

You are wrong on everything you said.

Try reading the court summary, of every Trump supporting case, before the Courts....and READ the Judge's rulings and why they ruled the way they did.

Not enough coverage on this in either media.... just the usual headline of Trump has lost again in court, then coverage on who picked the judge for the seat...

But no one spent the time over and over again, going over the actual court case and its claims and why under our Constitution or election law, or criminal law, they were wrong....

We, they, whomever, just cut it to a headline...TRUMP TEAM LOST IN COURT, AGAIN

Take the time, read the cases, and most importantly, why the rulings, came down as they did.