even an Aussie can see what America really stands for

[Skull Pilot]

Why is it that we a Americans can't see that we are not the ogre that the rest of the world seems to think we are. Why does it take an Aussie to point out our largess? And how come our presumptive presidential candidates would rather talk about how hated we are than the good we do?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23693121-7583,00.html

The need to paint Americans as a greedy, selfish, war-mongering superpower cannot be disturbed by facts. It matters not that, in the year before the tsunami, the US provided $2.4 billion in humanitarian relief: 40per cent of all the relief aid given to the world in 2003. Never mind that development and emergency relief rose from $10 billion during the last year of Bill Clinton's administration to $24 billion under George W. Bush in 2003. Or that, according to a German study, Americans contribute to charities nearly seven times as much a head as Germans do. Or that, adjusted for population, American philanthropy is more than two-thirds more than British giving.

There is a teenaged immaturity about the rest of the world's relationship with the US. Whenever a serious crisis erupts somewhere, our dependence on the US becomes obvious, and many hate the US because of it. That the hatred is irrational is beside the point.

We can denounce the Yanks for being Muslim-hating flouters of international law while demanding the US rescue Bosnian Muslims from Serbia without UN authority. We can be disgusted by crass American materialism and ridiculous stockpiling of worldly goods yet also be the first to demand material help from the US when disaster strikes.

The really unfortunate part about this adolescent love-hate relationship with the US is that, unlike most teenagers, many never seem to grow out of it. Within each new generation is a vicious strain of irrational anti-Americanism. But unlike a parent, the US could just get sick of it all and walk away.

maybe it's time to turn off the spigot of our largess. Seriously why don't we just shut off the money, the aid, and while we're at it let's slam the gates shut on immigration. Not permanently mind you but just for say 5 years or so. Let's invest all that money and labor into our own country after all don't we have natural disasters to clean up, don't we need new schools hospitals, power plants and highways???

Let the rest of the world that seems to hate us anyway get along on their own for a while.

 

[rayboyusmc]

No, most of US on the left are pointing out that Bush is an arrogant war mongering moron.

Never said there was anything wrong with the country, just the loser who got elected last time.

 

[Dogger]

The article makes many good points. Skull Pilot does not.

No one likes to takes charity, and that is especially true if the benefactor acts like an asshole father-in-law who lords it over you or humiliates you. See, Fargo.

Even when we are driven by humanitarian motives, foreign aid usually serves our national interests. A mass refugee problem destabilizes neighboring countries and their governments, and hurts the global economy. Our short-sighted efforts in Afghanistan, for example, led to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Then we toppled that with equal absence of vision, and saw the resurgence of the opium and heroin trade.

We cannot withdraw our military presence, so Skull Pilot’s suggestion means the world would see our heavy hand with nothing to balance it. It’s better to return to the intelligent engagement we had under Clinton, before almost half of America voted to put an imbecile in the White House.

 

[Gunny]

The article makes many good points. Skull Pilot does not.

No one likes to takes charity, and that is especially true if the benefactor acts like an asshole father-in-law who lords it over you or humiliates you. See, Fargo.

Even when we are driven by humanitarian motives, foreign aid usually serves our national interests. A mass refugee problem destabilizes neighboring countries and their governments, and hurts the global economy. Our short-sighted efforts in Afghanistan, for example, led to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Then we toppled that with equal absence of vision, and saw the resurgence of the opium and heroin trade.

We cannot withdraw our military presence, so Skull Pilot’s suggestion means the world would see our heavy hand with nothing to balance it. It’s better to return to the intelligent engagement we had under Clinton, before almost half of America voted to put an imbecile in the White House.

Intelligent engagement? LMFAO. Clinton involved us in the EXACT same kind of war Bush has. Everything else he did his level-best to completely ignore. Hardly anything intelligent about that.

If we have no say about what goes on in the world, then we need to bring all our toys home and fuck 'em. What you call "intelligent" is a one-way street and NOT to our advantage.

 

[Dogger]

Intelligent engagement? LMFAO.

I never claimed perfection for Clinton, and he made mistakes. But his policies were intelligent, and enhanced American standing in the world. In contrast, Bush has been nothing but a series of stupid mistakes and failed policies.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, most of US on the left are pointing out that Bush is an arrogant war mongering moron.

Never said there was anything wrong with the country, just the loser who got elected last time.

if you read the article it is not about what Americans think about America. it is an article written by an outside party with a take on how the rest of the world while perfectly willing to accept our money and labor and charity still hold us in low esteem.

if it doesn't matter how much we help the world and if our aid gets met with scorn, and insults and the enmity of the rest of the world why help at all?

if this country is in as bad a shape as obama says it is then why not put the well being of America and her citizens well being first and everyone else last?

 

[Annie]

No, most of US on the left are pointing out that Bush is an arrogant war mongering moron.

Never said there was anything wrong with the country, just the loser who got elected last time.

Who was it do you think that has increased the aid since Clinton left office? Who has increased spending on AIDS prevention, treatment, in Africa? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4303636&page=1

 

[Alpha1]

Whats sad is that our great country is burdened by assholes like rayboy and dogger and their comrade liberals in the jackass party...

 

[Annie]

I never claimed perfection for Clinton, and he made mistakes. But his policies were intelligent, and enhanced American standing in the world. In contrast, Bush has been nothing but a series of stupid mistakes and failed policies.

How was US 'enhanced' throughout the world? What did it do for US? How did you see his policies as intelligent? Getting us involved with Balkans, where we still are and is still a mess? Bombing aspirin and baby formula factories? Refusing to respond to direct attacks?

 

[Dogger]

blah, blah, blah, blah, . . . .

I've grown weary of responding to the same old tired Right Wing talking points. Let me know if you have an original thought.

Even when we behave intelligently, others do not always respond to us in kind. But when we behave like arrogant, cowboy assholes, we do make bad situations much worse. Bill Clinton is much more popular around the world than Bush is. You may not like it, but that doesn't change anything.

 

[Annie]

I've grown weary of responding to the same old tired Right Wing talking points. Let me know if you have an original thought.

...

Yet you respond with the same arrogant response as expected of certain adherents of the left, those with little to say.

 

[Dogger]

Yet you respond with the same arrogant response as expected of certain adherents of the left, those with little to say.

"Bill Clinton is much more popular around the world than Bush is. You may not like it, but that doesn't change anything."

 

[Anguille]

"Bill Clinton is much more popular around the world than Bush is. You may not like it, but that doesn't change anything."

There is no denying that.

Muslims, Serbs and Croats are living in peace again. Bush's tactics have quashed hope for the same in Iraq.

 

[jillian]

How was US 'enhanced' throughout the world? What did it do for US? How did you see his policies as intelligent? Getting us involved with Balkans, where we still are and is still a mess? Bombing aspirin and baby formula factories? Refusing to respond to direct attacks?

I love revisionist history. Bill Clinton was well regarded. Most of the rest of the world thinks Bush is a buffoon, notwithstanding what one right wing Aussie paper said. My guess is they also endorsed Howard in the election and he got his butt soundly beat... actually lost his seat along with the job of PM -- rare, if it happens at all. And it happened, in large part, because of his trying to be a mini GW.

 

[Diuretic]

I love revisionist history. Bill Clinton was well regarded. Most of the rest of the world thinks Bush is a buffoon, notwithstanding what one right wing Aussie paper said. My guess is they also endorsed Howard in the election and he got his butt soundly beat... actually lost his seat along with the job of PM -- rare, if it happens at all. And it happened, in large part, because of his trying to be a mini GW.

Perceptive. Albrechtsen is to the right of the right in a right wing Murdoch rag. She is seen as an ideological warrior, less foul-mouthed than Coulter and, I have to say, probably more intelligent. But she was a booster for Howard and the previous government to a degree that was embarrassing. These days she's not taken that seriously, her mojo isn't working that well.

 

[Diuretic]

And Howard is only the second PM in our history (since 1901) to lose his seat. The other one was a rabid conservative as well.

 

[Ravi]

Hey, we are a greedy, selfish, war-mongering superpower. Blow it out your ear.

 

[Dr Grump]

if you read the article it is not about what Americans think about America. it is an article written by an outside party with a take on how the rest of the world while perfectly willing to accept our money and labor and charity still hold us in low esteem.

if it doesn't matter how much we help the world and if our aid gets met with scorn, and insults and the enmity of the rest of the world why help at all?

if this country is in as bad a shape as obama says it is then why not put the well being of America and her citizens well being first and everyone else last?

Conservatives whine about the MSM not telling the US population about the good things happening in Iraq, yet it seems to me, it is the conservatives who ALWAYS put out the stories about the world scorning American aid, when I have seen copious amounts of non-Americans benefitting from aforementioned aid and being grateful....I think it benefits conservatives if they make out that beneficiaries of US aid whine about it. Gives them a good argument to stop sending aid. In fact, most are very, very, very grateful to the US...

All the above being said, the US has as a PR problem in the form of a former coke-snorting, failed businessman, "I only got into Yale on a pledge", C-grade, "I only became president due to my surname and a $25 million war chest" idiot in the WH. See, you may respect the office of the presidency - and that's fine. The rest of us have grown up a little. We expect a lot from our politicians. And if they are stupid idiots, we'll call them on it - no matter what their position. And we know we won't be called Oz-haters or NZ-haters or unpatriotic. We'll just be indulging in freedom of expression.

 

[Ravi]

Why is Australia called Oz?

 

[Diuretic]

Why is Australia called Oz?

It's a complicated play on words and pronunciation.

Back in the 1960s a bunch of Australian counter-culture types produced a magazine determined to tweak the nose of the establishment (and believe me it needed tweaking).

They called it OZ because that's how we pronounce the first syllable of our country's name (there are some generational and regional differences but suffice to say that we say "Oz" whereas Americans pronounce it - to our ears "Oss" where the "s" in "Australia" is much more sibilant).

They (the editors) also referenced "The Wizard of Oz" I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_(magazine)

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=139255