European gun control not working....bad guys get lots of guns. Gun gun control is a joke....

[2aguy]

Notice...Russia also has stricter gun control....notice how many other countries with stricter gun control have higher suicide rates....

Can we stop using suicide as a reason to ban guns?

I know, I know...without using suicide to increase their gun death numbers...the anti gunners only have around 8-9,000 gun murders a year in a country of over 310 million people...closer to 320 million by now.....and that is a weak hand that they have....

 

[Pogo]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

And how long has your logic transmission been stuck in reverse?

Places that have extensive gun control laws generally don't have them because they reacted to guns being out of control in the past -- they have them because they never believed the answer to every situation was blowing it up in the first place. You don't "control" something that's already out of control; in other words the sentiment begat the laws --- not the other way 'round. Get your head out of the sand of your own tiny little cowboys-and-Indians comic book world as if that's all that exists and suddenly you can see that. And one might add here, "Duh".

I don't know if gun violence is going up in Europe or not (and I clearly wouldn't trust you as a source) but if it is I have no doubt it's influenced by you knuckledraggers who think the solution to every challenge is overpowering it with brute force.

Oh that reminds me, please don't procreate.

 

[2aguy]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

And how long has your logic transmission been stuck in reverse?

Places that have extensive gun control laws generally don't have them because they reacted to guns being out of control in the past -- they have them because they never believed the answer to every situation was blowing it up in the first place. You don't "control" something that's already out of control; in other words the sentiment begat the laws --- not the other way 'round. Get your head out of the sand of your own tiny little cowboys-and-Indians comic book world as if that's all that exists and suddenly you can see that. And one might add here, "Duh".

I don't know if gun violence is going up in Europe or not (and I clearly wouldn't trust you as a source) but if it is I have no doubt it's influenced by you knuckledraggers who think the solution to every challenge is overpowering it with brute force.

Oh that reminds me, please don't procreate.

Australia did not have the gun violence problem we have....but after one mass shooting they did their gun buy back....dittos Britain and the other countries....they didn't have a gun violence problem to begin with.....but they still banned guns.....their guns weren't out of control...and they still banned guns....

So

You don't "control" something that's already out of control;

Does not apply to Britain, Australia or any number of other countries that have stricter gun control than we do.......they had low gun murder rates before their gun bans....not after.....

 

[2aguy]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

And how long has your logic transmission been stuck in reverse?

Places that have extensive gun control laws generally don't have them because they reacted to guns being out of control in the past -- they have them because they never believed the answer to every situation was blowing it up in the first place. You don't "control" something that's already out of control; in other words the sentiment begat the laws --- not the other way 'round. Get your head out of the sand of your own tiny little cowboys-and-Indians comic book world as if that's all that exists and suddenly you can see that. And one might add here, "Duh".

I don't know if gun violence is going up in Europe or not (and I clearly wouldn't trust you as a source) but if it is I have no doubt it's influenced by you knuckledraggers who think the solution to every challenge is overpowering it with brute force.

Oh that reminds me, please don't procreate.

I don't know if gun violence is going up in Europe or not (and I clearly wouldn't trust you as a source) but if it is I have no doubt it's influenced by you knuckledraggers who think the solution to every challenge is overpowering it with brute force.

If it is going up it is because their criminals and terrorists have decided that they want or need guns....and no matter what laws the Europeans have now....if criminals want guns, they will get them.....as that article shows......

 

[Pogo]

Flail around all you want trying to make this work, but it doesn't. These places were free to make these laws without a bunch of synaptically-challenged morons coming out of the woodwork defending the right to exterminate school children because they did not have a gun culture in the first place -- and because they could see what happens when one is allowed to flourish. So again, the laws reflected the culture. As do ours. What you're doing is trying to fit the square peg of American sensibilities into the round hole of other cultures that simply do not share the same values and never did.

In other words, in a nutshell your premise is complete and utter bullshit.

Extrapolating from one's own little world to everywhere else as if that's the only way humans can evolve is the very height of both arrogance and ignorance. Which I guess are the two main qualifications for firearm fetishism.

 

[2aguy]

Flail around all you want trying to make this work, but it doesn't. These places were free to make these laws without a bunch of synaptically-challenged morons coming out of the woodwork defending the right to exterminate school children because they did not have a gun culture in the first place -- and because they could see what happens when one is allowed to flourish. So again, the laws reflected the culture. As do ours.

Extrapolating from one's own little world to everywhere else as if that's the only way humans can evolve is the very height of both arrogance and ignorance. Which I guess are the two main qualifications for firearm fetishism.

again...you fail......Australia, Britain and the other gun control countries had lower murder rates than we did before they implemented their gun control......and their gun control laws don't work...just like ours don't......France has learned this, Australia just learned this....and guns in Australia are still in the hands of criminals, and Canada learned this.....

None of those places had an "out of control" gun problem.......and they still banned guns......and they are still useless and pointless....outside of long jail sentences.....

They have less gun related crime because their criminals don't use guns as often as ours do, not because they can't get guns...they just don't use them....they can get guns when they want them or need them.....they just don't....for now....

Ask France if their gun control laws worked to keep guns out of the hands of those 3 terrorists.......

 

[Pogo]

Flail around all you want trying to make this work, but it doesn't. These places were free to make these laws without a bunch of synaptically-challenged morons coming out of the woodwork defending the right to exterminate school children because they did not have a gun culture in the first place -- and because they could see what happens when one is allowed to flourish. So again, the laws reflected the culture. As do ours.

Extrapolating from one's own little world to everywhere else as if that's the only way humans can evolve is the very height of both arrogance and ignorance. Which I guess are the two main qualifications for firearm fetishism.

again...you fail......Australia, Britain and the other gun control countries had lower murder rates than we did before they implemented their gun control......

And they still do, by far.

None of those places had an "out of control" gun problem.......and they still banned guns......and they are still useless and pointless....outside of long jail sentences.....

You just restated my point. And I'm not the least bit surprised it's sailing over your head. What you're not getting is that these places Do. Not. Have. Our. History. You're trying to take apples and oranges and come out with applesauce. It won't work.

They have less gun related crime because their criminals don't use guns as often as ours do, not because they can't get guns...they just don't use them....they can get guns when they want them or need them.....they just don't....for now....

Again, restating my point. They have fewer gun incidents because they just don't have gun cultures to the extent that we do. Because -- who knew -- turns out blowing something up or blowing somebody away isn't the only way to address every situation after all. Who saw that coming... oh yeah, everybody.

Ask France if their gun control laws worked to keep guns out of the hands of those 3 terrorists.......

Composition fallacy.

You're falling on your face here.

 

[2aguy]

Flail around all you want trying to make this work, but it doesn't. These places were free to make these laws without a bunch of synaptically-challenged morons coming out of the woodwork defending the right to exterminate school children because they did not have a gun culture in the first place -- and because they could see what happens when one is allowed to flourish. So again, the laws reflected the culture. As do ours.

Extrapolating from one's own little world to everywhere else as if that's the only way humans can evolve is the very height of both arrogance and ignorance. Which I guess are the two main qualifications for firearm fetishism.

again...you fail......Australia, Britain and the other gun control countries had lower murder rates than we did before they implemented their gun control......

And they still do, by far.

None of those places had an "out of control" gun problem.......and they still banned guns......and they are still useless and pointless....outside of long jail sentences.....

You just restated my point. And I'm not the least bit surprised it's sailing over your head. What you're not getting is that these places Do. Not. Have. Our. History. You're trying to take apples and oranges and come out with applesauce. It won't work.

They have less gun related crime because their criminals don't use guns as often as ours do, not because they can't get guns...they just don't use them....they can get guns when they want them or need them.....they just don't....for now....

Again, restating my point. They have fewer gun incidents because they just don't have gun cultures to the extent that we do. Because -- who knew -- turns out blowing something up or blowing somebody away isn't the only way to address every situation after all. Who saw that coming... oh yeah, everybody.

Ask France if their gun control laws worked to keep guns out of the hands of those 3 terrorists.......

Composition fallacy.

You're falling on your face here.

Because -- who knew -- turns out blowing something up or blowing somebody away isn't the only way to address every situation after all.

Except....when the criminals decide shooting people is a way to solve their situations.....and start using guns, like they did in France, Belgium, Australia, and Canada...and still do in Puerto Rico.......the law abiding citizens won't have them....as was seen in France....and they have rapes, robberies, stabbings, beatings, and murders just like we do....but the victims have no choice but to endure them...since they can't fight back....

 

[Brain357]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

How many accidental shootings do these countries have each year?

 

[2aguy]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

How many accidental shootings do these countries have each year?

How many accidents of any sort do they have....accidents with guns will be more likely here because we have more guns......but even with that....6-700 accidental gun deaths a year out of a country of probably 320 million people....with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....please....it doesn't even come close to a problem.....

Then ask about how much rape they have in those countries, and armed robberies, and "hot" burglaries where people are at home during the home invasion.....

And again.....if French and European criminals don't use guns as often as our criminals...that is a cultural preference, not a gun problem....since it is obvious European criminals can get any kind of guns they want when they want them....even rocket propelled grenades, and hand grenades....I don't remember our gangs and criminals using rocket propelled grenades....do you?

 

[Brain357]

Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?

In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.

How many accidental shootings do these countries have each year?

How many accidents of any sort do they have....accidents with guns will be more likely here because we have more guns......but even with that....6-700 accidental gun deaths a year out of a country of probably 320 million people....with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....please....it doesn't even come close to a problem.....

Then ask about how much rape they have in those countries, and armed robberies, and "hot" burglaries where people are at home during the home invasion.....

And again.....if French and European criminals don't use guns as often as our criminals...that is a cultural preference, not a gun problem....since it is obvious European criminals can get any kind of guns they want when they want them....even rocket propelled grenades, and hand grenades....I don't remember our gangs and criminals using rocket propelled grenades....do you?

So they have far fewer accidental shootings and death. That is a plus. I guess 6-700 is a small number unless it is you or someone you know dead or shot. And only 230 or so criminals are getting shot and killed each year in defense. What is there 18,000 accidental shootings? How many of those people are crippled? So they have lower crime rates and much fewer accidental shootings. Sounds like gun control is working for them.

 

[2aguy]

until their criminals change...and decide to start using guns...as the radical Muslims are....

And 1.6 million is an even bigger number if you or a family member is the victim of a rape, stabbing, beating, robbery or murder.....and your gun stops the attacker or attackers.....

so Brain.....I posted a story about a woman 5 months pregnant....stabbed in the stomach by two attackers....violent, aggressive males...who, after being stabbed, drew a gun and drove the men off......if you could go back in time and take that gun away from her so she wouldn't have it to stop the attack....would you...? since you think no one should have a,gun on them to stop violent men from stabbing women....pregnant or not?


Would you go back in time and give a gun to the woman murdere by her husband.....with a 10 dollar hatchet? Or would you let her die?


will you answer these questions since non of the other anti gunners will?

 

[Brain357]

until their criminals change...and decide to start using guns...as the radical Muslims are....

And 1.6 million is an even bigger number if you or a family member is the victim of a rape, stabbing, beating, robbery or murder.....and your gun stops the attacker or attackers.....

so Brain.....I posted a story about a woman 5 months pregnant....stabbed in the stomach by two attackers....violent, aggressive males...who, after being stabbed, drew a gun and drove the men off......if you could go back in time and take that gun away from her so she wouldn't have it to stop the attack....would you...? since you think no one should have a,gun on them to stop violent men from stabbing women....pregnant or not?


Would you go back in time and give a gun to the woman murdere by her husband.....with a 10 dollar hatchet? Or would you let her die?


will you answer these questions since non of the other anti gunners will?

I don't think they are going to want to change their laws to be more like us Bill. We are shooting ourselves over here.

According to Kleck you mean 1.6 million criminals defending against other criminals. I really don't care how many criminals defend themselves with a gun.

Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

I've not said no one should have a gun Bill. But it is clear everyone shouldn't.

No charges in accidental shooting death of 3-year-old boy in Berrien County MLive.com

Like I said European gun laws seem to be working for them.

 

[2aguy]

As most anti gunners you didn't answer the question....here is the story...

After Stabbing Woman Fires at Robbers in Philadelphia Home NBC 10 Philadelphia

And Kleck's study is the most accurate....but it isn't the only study where the 1.6 million number comes from...that is an average of a large number of studies...that you know already...and you also know Kleck also points out the unlawful gun possession is normal people carrying guns before concealed carry laws were passed, not career criminals.....

 

[Brain357]

As most anti gunners you didn't answer the question....here is the story...

After Stabbing Woman Fires at Robbers in Philadelphia Home NBC 10 Philadelphia

And Kleck's study is the most accurate....but it isn't the only study where the 1.6 million number comes from...that is an average of a large number of studies...that you know already...and you also know Kleck also points out the unlawful gun possession is normal people carrying guns before concealed carry laws were passed, not career criminals.....

Do you read your own links:
The woman — who was originally reported to be pregnant but later found to not be — fired shots at the robbers, said police. It wasn’t clear if either man was struck as they made it away from the home.

Since I have not said we should disarm everyone that is my answer to your question.

Sorry Bill but he gives that as one example which would only cover a small number of defenses. Most defenses are at home where it is legal to defend your house, unless of course you are felon. That is the only way MOST defenders are involved in criminal activity.

 

[2aguy]

And her not being pregnant changes the stabbing?

And about that woman killed by her husband with the 10 dollar hatchet? She was attacked in a motel parking lot....you would keep her from having a gun to stop the attack......right? She can die because she wasn't at home when she was attacked....right?

 

[timslash]

u lived in place where people haven't got guns? If in Europe it doesn't works - it doesn't mean that it will not work in our country!
ban on guns, or at least hard control on guns - is necessity!

 

[Brain357]

And her not being pregnant changes the stabbing?

And about that woman killed by her husband with the 10 dollar hatchet? She was attacked in a motel parking lot....you would keep her from having a gun to stop the attack......right? She can die because she wasn't at home when she was attacked....right?

I think you wanted her to be pregnant for some sort of sympathy and well that wasn't even true.

I think I said multiple times now that I would not disarm everyone. I think they should know however that they are 3X more likely to shoot and kill an innocent person than a criminal. And they should know that carrying a gun makes them more likely to be shot themselves. It is a big responsibility.

 

[2aguy]

And her not being pregnant changes the stabbing?

And about that woman killed by her husband with the 10 dollar hatchet? She was attacked in a motel parking lot....you would keep her from having a gun to stop the attack......right? She can die because she wasn't at home when she was attacked....right?

I think you wanted her to be pregnant for some sort of sympathy and well that wasn't even true.

I think I said multiple times now that I would disarm everyone. I think they should know however that they are 3X more likely to shoot and kill an innocent person than a criminal. And they should know that carrying a gun makes them more likely to be shot themselves. It is a big responsibility.

actually no.....1.6 million times a year law abiding citizens use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....most of the time just showing the weapon and driving off the attackers, or holding the criminal for police, or less often shooting to wound and or kill the attacker......and with only 6-700 accidental gun deaths out of 320 million people, with over 310 million guns, and over 11.1 million concealed carriers......

When you stop 1.6 million crimes a year....you luck out Brain because the survivors of future crimes....can't be counted...because the criminal was arrested after they were captured by the law abiding citizen, or arrested after they were shot, or just stopped cold when they were killed....you can't compute the future rapes stopped, the future beatings, stabbings, robberies or murders.......

 

[Brain357]

And her not being pregnant changes the stabbing?

And about that woman killed by her husband with the 10 dollar hatchet? She was attacked in a motel parking lot....you would keep her from having a gun to stop the attack......right? She can die because she wasn't at home when she was attacked....right?

I think you wanted her to be pregnant for some sort of sympathy and well that wasn't even true.

I think I said multiple times now that I would disarm everyone. I think they should know however that they are 3X more likely to shoot and kill an innocent person than a criminal. And they should know that carrying a gun makes them more likely to be shot themselves. It is a big responsibility.

actually no.....1.6 million times a year law abiding citizens use guns to stop violent criminal attack and save lives....most of the time just showing the weapon and driving off the attackers, or holding the criminal for police, or less often shooting to wound and or kill the attacker......and with only 6-700 accidental gun deaths out of 320 million people, with over 310 million guns, and over 11.1 million concealed carriers......

When you stop 1.6 million crimes a year....you luck out Brain because the survivors of future crimes....can't be counted...because the criminal was arrested after they were captured by the law abiding citizen, or arrested after they were shot, or just stopped cold when they were killed....you can't compute the future rapes stopped, the future beatings, stabbings, robberies or murders.......

Bill you can't pretend those are law abiding defenses. Here is Kleck again:
Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

By definition the vast majority are not law abiding. Most of them are actually criminals. Why do we care how many criminals defend against other criminals?