European gun control not working....bad guys get lots of guns. Gun gun control is a joke....

2aguy

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Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work.....

European Police Gun Control Not Working Jihadists Have Us Outgunned - Breitbart

Europol chief of staff Brian Donald says there were two “large seizures” of firearms–particularly “assault weapons”–over the last two weeks and more seizures are expected as investigations and tracking continues.

According to TIME magazine, this is indicative of the reality European police face. Regardless of the gun control laws passed/implemented, jihadists are able to arm themselves just as those who attacked the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters on January 7 were armed.

How long does it take to buy highly illegal, fully automatic weapons in gun control heaven......?


In other words, gun control appears to have created a false sense of security for the European people and their police forces as well. The reality is that guns remain available in black markets, albeit especially for those who have criminal or terrorist intent.

TIME reports that gun traffickers are thriving to such a degree that a training assignment for some new European officers has been to go out an buy a Kalashnikov from a black market dealer, just to see how easy it is. To date, doing so has only taken a couple of hours.
 
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rightwinger

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
 

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision
Yes ... they should be revised. All law-abiding, natural-born, taxpaying Americans should be required to own a gun for self-protection and protection of their families. The murder rate would decrease.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

Again...how do you get that from the situation in France.........? They have gun laws that are stricter than ours......and yet their criminals can get fully automatic rifles in a matter of hours......

No matter what gun laws you have, they only work when people obey them....or are arrested and put in jail for a long time when they don't........those are the only way that gun laws work.....and we have all the gun laws we need to stop gun crime...we just need to enforce them....and have prosectors not use gun crimes as bargaining chips....
 
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2aguy

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Hmmmm...this is what even stricter gun control laws look like......useless, pointless....but they do keep guns out of the hands of people who won't abuse them......I guess that makes sense to an irrational, anti gunner......

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles


When Chérif and Saïd Kouachi attacked the offices of Charlie Hebdo on Jan. 7, killing 12 people, they were armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles and could easily outgun the police officers who tried to apprehend them with pistols. Their associate, Amedy Coulibaly, had an even greater collection of military-grade weapons.

The size of the trio’s armory has prompted an urgent inquiry into the scale of gun smuggling in Europe, where weapons are smuggled into the European Union from the countries of former Yugoslavia, Albania and elsewhere and then moved without any further border checks to where they will get the best price. Most of the smuggling is carried out by criminal gangs but many jihadists such as Coulibaly are well connected with criminal networks.


Despite the Paris attacks, it seems the weapons are still flowing freely through Europe.

But......but.......they have more gun control than the U.S.........right?

In all, he says police had seized “several vanloads of 30 or 40 weapons at a time,” during the past few weeks, including “AK-47s, Scorpions, handguns and semiautomatic rifles.”
Those who support the right of law abiding citizens are right.......if you make it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns it won't change the crime stats, it won't end mass shootings.....it will only make law abiding citizens easier targets for killers......and Europe proves it.........
 
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2aguy

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Hmmmm...what kind of guns can you get in a strict, gun control heaven like France....

The Kouachis had rifles and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. On Jan. 8, Coulibaly fatally shot a policewoman with a Scorpion submachine gun in the Paris suburb of Montrouge. The day after that, he used a 7.62-mm Tokarev rifle, a Soviet-designed weapon, to kill five hostages in a kosher supermarket in eastern Paris. His posthumous video also showed him with a Kalashnikov AK-47. Earlier this month, a Belgian newspaper reported that Coulibaly had bought most of the weapons from a Belgian criminal for €5,000 (about $5,647).
What have we always said....no matter what gun laws you create...you cannot stop criminals from getting weapons......when they want or need them.......you can only stop law abiding citizens....


The arms traffickers have flourished in the absence of well-financed antiweapons units in Europe, where law enforcement has for years tended to plow money into stopping drug-dealing and other crimes. “We don’t fully understand the scale of the problem because we have not had specialized units,” says Donald, referring to law-enforcement agencies in different E.U. countries. “It is a question of priorities. Any police officer will tell you it [resources] is a constant struggle.”
The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.
 

rightwinger

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment

Suicide....Japan and other strict gun controlled countries have higher suicide rates...again...culture...not guns....

Domestic violence killings....again, culture...not guns...recent case here in Illinois, the husband killed his wife with a 10 dollar hatchet.....

Accidental gun deaths....6-700 a year on average, in a country of over 310 million people, with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....the number is so tiny that it doesn't matter....since far more children die in drowning accidents, falls and choking accidents....as well as car accidents...

In the United States, law abiding citizens stop violent crime and save lives on average, 1.6 million times a year....vs.....only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, which are committed mainly by gangs and drug dealers in large cities, in small multi block areas.......

Again, guns are not the problem....and trying to use Tom Cruise "Pre Crime" laws to stop gun crime does not work, not here, not Europe, not in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico or anywhere else.....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....they are an Island and guns can't be driven across their border.....yet they have one of the highest gun murder rates in the world....

The way you stop gun crime.....lock up felons caught carrying guns for a long, long time.....if someone commits a crime with a gun, from robbery, or rape, or murder.....lock them up for a long, long time...word will spread that using guns to commit a crime will lock you up for a long, long time...and they will stop using guns.....

That is what they do in Japan...and it lowers the gun violence rate.....

And leaves law abiding citizens who don't abuse guns alone......isn't that supposed to be the goal....?
 

rightwinger

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment

Suicide....Japan and other strict gun controlled countries have higher suicide rates...again...culture...not guns....

Domestic violence killings....again, culture...not guns...recent case here in Illinois, the husband killed his wife with a 10 dollar hatchet.....

Accidental gun deaths....6-700 a year on average, in a country of over 310 million people, with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....the number is so tiny that it doesn't matter....since far more children die in drowning accidents, falls and choking accidents....as well as car accidents...

In the United States, law abiding citizens stop violent crime and save lives on average, 1.6 million times a year....vs.....only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, which are committed mainly by gangs and drug dealers in large cities, in small multi block areas.......

Again, guns are not the problem....and trying to use Tom Cruise "Pre Crime" laws to stop gun crime does not work, not here, not Europe, not in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico or anywhere else.....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....they are an Island and guns can't be driven across their border.....yet they have one of the highest gun murder rates in the world....

The way you stop gun crime.....lock up felons caught carrying guns for a long, long time.....if someone commits a crime with a gun, from robbery, or rape, or murder.....lock them up for a long, long time...word will spread that using guns to commit a crime will lock you up for a long, long time...and they will stop using guns.....

That is what they do in Japan...and it lowers the gun violence rate.....

And leaves law abiding citizens who don't abuse guns alone......isn't that supposed to be the goal....?
Japan has a suicide culture dating centuries

Why don't you post the suicide rates in Europe or Canada?

What makes guns such an effective tool in suicides and domestic assaults is their instantaneous results. A split second decision yields final results
 
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2aguy

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment

Suicide....Japan and other strict gun controlled countries have higher suicide rates...again...culture...not guns....

Domestic violence killings....again, culture...not guns...recent case here in Illinois, the husband killed his wife with a 10 dollar hatchet.....

Accidental gun deaths....6-700 a year on average, in a country of over 310 million people, with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....the number is so tiny that it doesn't matter....since far more children die in drowning accidents, falls and choking accidents....as well as car accidents...

In the United States, law abiding citizens stop violent crime and save lives on average, 1.6 million times a year....vs.....only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, which are committed mainly by gangs and drug dealers in large cities, in small multi block areas.......

Again, guns are not the problem....and trying to use Tom Cruise "Pre Crime" laws to stop gun crime does not work, not here, not Europe, not in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico or anywhere else.....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....they are an Island and guns can't be driven across their border.....yet they have one of the highest gun murder rates in the world....

The way you stop gun crime.....lock up felons caught carrying guns for a long, long time.....if someone commits a crime with a gun, from robbery, or rape, or murder.....lock them up for a long, long time...word will spread that using guns to commit a crime will lock you up for a long, long time...and they will stop using guns.....

That is what they do in Japan...and it lowers the gun violence rate.....

And leaves law abiding citizens who don't abuse guns alone......isn't that supposed to be the goal....?
Japan has a suicide culture dating centuries

Why don't you post the suicide rates in Europe or Canada?

Because Japan has absolute gun control and a non gun culture.....and their suicide rates are twice ours....that's why....and look at some of those Eurpean countries....some of them also have high suicide rates...and more gun control than we do....

guns are not the issue in suicide....
 
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2aguy

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the reason that the gun control groups point to suicide is because it increases their gun death numbers....without suicide there are only 8-9,000 gun murders a year....again, mainly in inner cities, committed by criminal gangs and drug dealers, in small, multi block areas....if you stay away from criminal activity and don't use drugs, or abuse alcohol, your chances of dying from guns are almost zero......

But pointing that out doesn't help the issue of banning guns.....
 

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BILLC SAID:

"Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work....."

This fails as a post hoc fallacy, there's no evidence that the gun laws of any given country are 'responsible' for terrorists acquiring firearms. And no gun law is written and implemented with the intent of preventing every prohibited person from acquiring a firearm.

The premise of this thread – as is the case with all your other similar threads – is ignorant idiocy.
 

rightwinger

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Their murder rate is about one third of ours

Seems our gun laws are the ones needing revision

No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment

Suicide....Japan and other strict gun controlled countries have higher suicide rates...again...culture...not guns....

Domestic violence killings....again, culture...not guns...recent case here in Illinois, the husband killed his wife with a 10 dollar hatchet.....

Accidental gun deaths....6-700 a year on average, in a country of over 310 million people, with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....the number is so tiny that it doesn't matter....since far more children die in drowning accidents, falls and choking accidents....as well as car accidents...

In the United States, law abiding citizens stop violent crime and save lives on average, 1.6 million times a year....vs.....only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, which are committed mainly by gangs and drug dealers in large cities, in small multi block areas.......

Again, guns are not the problem....and trying to use Tom Cruise "Pre Crime" laws to stop gun crime does not work, not here, not Europe, not in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico or anywhere else.....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....they are an Island and guns can't be driven across their border.....yet they have one of the highest gun murder rates in the world....

The way you stop gun crime.....lock up felons caught carrying guns for a long, long time.....if someone commits a crime with a gun, from robbery, or rape, or murder.....lock them up for a long, long time...word will spread that using guns to commit a crime will lock you up for a long, long time...and they will stop using guns.....

That is what they do in Japan...and it lowers the gun violence rate.....

And leaves law abiding citizens who don't abuse guns alone......isn't that supposed to be the goal....?
Japan has a suicide culture dating centuries

Why don't you post the suicide rates in Europe or Canada?

Because Japan has absolute gun control and a non gun culture.....and their suicide rates are twice ours....that's why....and look at some of those Eurpean countries....some of them also have high suicide rates...and more gun control than we do....

guns are not the issue in suicide....
Let's talk numbers...you are talking in circles
Japan is well known to have a culture of suicide predating guns
Let's talk Canada.......how does their suicide rate compare to gun happy America?
 
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2aguy

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BILLC SAID:

"Well....those who defend our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms are proven right....again....and the proof comes from an anti gun nation.....with strict, anti gun policies, which are the dream of American anti gunners.....and as they were told....these anti gun policies do not work....."

This fails as a post hoc fallacy, there's no evidence that the gun laws of any given country are 'responsible' for terrorists acquiring firearms. And no gun law is written and implemented with the intent of preventing every prohibited person from acquiring a firearm.

The premise of this thread – as is the case with all your other similar threads – is ignorant idiocy.

Well....I see the nurses are not paying attention to you again clayton.....sneaking into the computer room again are we?

1) I didn't say gun laws are responsible for terrorists getting weapons....I said gun laws do not stop them from getting those weapons when they want or need them....but they do actually stop law abiding citizens from getting guns for self defense....

2)
And no gun law is written and implemented with the intent of preventing every prohibited person from acquiring a firearm.
They are written primarily to keep guns out of the hands of normal, law abiding citizens...since those are the only people who obey the laws against owning guns....see: France, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico.......
 

rightwinger

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the reason that the gun control groups point to suicide is because it increases their gun death numbers....without suicide there are only 8-9,000 gun murders a year....again, mainly in inner cities, committed by criminal gangs and drug dealers, in small, multi block areas....if you stay away from criminal activity and don't use drugs, or abuse alcohol, your chances of dying from guns are almost zero......

But pointing that out doesn't help the issue of banning guns.....
Suicide is a real issue in this country. Guns contribute immensely
 
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2aguy

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No...there murder rate is lower than ours because they don't have criminals who commit as much murder....cultural/historical differences not lack of guns.....since they can get fully automatic weapons in a matter of hours...lack of guns isn't keeping them from committing murder with them....

They come from a different cultural history...most of their people were serfs and force was preserved to their elites.....historically speaking.....where as our history is a frontier history where people were armed all the time and didn't respect culturally approved authority figures.....big differences that have been passed down through time....

Add to that the horrors of World War 1 and 2 and the pacifism that created and passed down culturally, and you have a less violent society....until now....when they have imported people from 3rd world war zones....with 3rd world war zone values toward violence......now they have a problem......and they don't know how to deal with it....
Seems self fulfilling doesn't it? Once you kill someone, you are a criminal

Beyond your criminals, we have a much larger suicide rate, domestic violence killings and accidental shootings

The price we pay for a second amendment

Suicide....Japan and other strict gun controlled countries have higher suicide rates...again...culture...not guns....

Domestic violence killings....again, culture...not guns...recent case here in Illinois, the husband killed his wife with a 10 dollar hatchet.....

Accidental gun deaths....6-700 a year on average, in a country of over 310 million people, with 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....the number is so tiny that it doesn't matter....since far more children die in drowning accidents, falls and choking accidents....as well as car accidents...

In the United States, law abiding citizens stop violent crime and save lives on average, 1.6 million times a year....vs.....only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, which are committed mainly by gangs and drug dealers in large cities, in small multi block areas.......

Again, guns are not the problem....and trying to use Tom Cruise "Pre Crime" laws to stop gun crime does not work, not here, not Europe, not in Canada, or Australia, or Mexico or anywhere else.....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....they are an Island and guns can't be driven across their border.....yet they have one of the highest gun murder rates in the world....

The way you stop gun crime.....lock up felons caught carrying guns for a long, long time.....if someone commits a crime with a gun, from robbery, or rape, or murder.....lock them up for a long, long time...word will spread that using guns to commit a crime will lock you up for a long, long time...and they will stop using guns.....

That is what they do in Japan...and it lowers the gun violence rate.....

And leaves law abiding citizens who don't abuse guns alone......isn't that supposed to be the goal....?
Japan has a suicide culture dating centuries

Why don't you post the suicide rates in Europe or Canada?

Because Japan has absolute gun control and a non gun culture.....and their suicide rates are twice ours....that's why....and look at some of those Eurpean countries....some of them also have high suicide rates...and more gun control than we do....

guns are not the issue in suicide....
Let's talk numbers...you are talking in circles
Japan is well known to have a culture of suicide predating guns
Let's talk Canada.......how does their suicide rate compare to gun happy America?
Let's talk Canada.......how does their suicide rate compare to gun happy America?
In 2005, from the Post Story.....it was higher.....and they control guns more than we do.....next?
 
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the reason that the gun control groups point to suicide is because it increases their gun death numbers....without suicide there are only 8-9,000 gun murders a year....again, mainly in inner cities, committed by criminal gangs and drug dealers, in small, multi block areas....if you stay away from criminal activity and don't use drugs, or abuse alcohol, your chances of dying from guns are almost zero......

But pointing that out doesn't help the issue of banning guns.....
Suicide is a real issue in this country. Guns contribute immensely

Suicide is an even bigger issue in:

South Korea
Japan
France

And many other countries with more gun control than we have.....guns are not the issue...I started a separate thread on guns and the suicide side of the debate.....
 
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Rightwinger...guns are not the issue in suicide rates....too many other countries with strict to absolute gun control have higher suicide rates than we do.....so they kill themselves in other ways...if you took away all of our guns.....we would have the same suicide rate....that is what happened when Australia had their buy back....their suicide rate stayed the same....

The highlighted countries are known to have stricter gun control than the United States....many of the others do to...I didn't feel like researching all of their individual gun control levels.....

World suicide rates by country

Country Suicide rates per 100,000 people
South Korea 24.7

Hungary 21.0
Japan 19.4
Belgium 18.4
Finland 16.5
France 14.6
Austria 13.8
Poland 13.8
Czech Republic 12.7
New Zealand 11.9
Denmark 11.3
Sweden 11.1
Norway 10.9
Slovak Republic 10.9
Iceland 10.4
Germany 10.3
Canada 10.2
United States 10.1
Luxembourg 9.5
Portugal 8.7
Netherlands 7.9
Spain 6.3
Britain 6
Italy 5.5
Mexico 4.4
Greece 2.9

Notes: Data is for 2005.

Suicide rates: South Korea has the highest suicide rate among OECD countries. Greece has the lowest.

Gender gap: In Mexico, Poland and the Slovak Republic, for each female death there are at least five male deaths. By contrast, in Korea, the Netherlands and Norway there are two male suicides for each female death.

Age: Older people take their own lives more often than young people in Greece, Italy, Portugal and South Korea but the pattern is not general across the OECD.
 
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Here is a list of countries with the highest suicide rate in 2013....the U.S. with it's gun control policies is way down on the list...while countries with absolute gun control...South Korea, China, Japan...France....have higher suicide rates...so they aren't killing themselves with guns....

World Suicide Rate Map - Business Insider


Here's each of the countries in the map, along with their most recently available suicide rates in deaths per 100,000 population, and the year the data comes from:

Business Insider/Andy Kiersz, data from WHO, AFP and the Lancet







Read more: World Suicide Rate Map - Business Insider
 

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