European gun control not working....bad guys get lots of guns. Gun gun control is a joke....

[2aguy]

And what Kleck actually says about criminal vs. self defense shootings....

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck Ph.D.

The authors concluded that defensive uses of guns are about three to four times as common as criminal uses of guns. The National Self-Defense Survey confirmed the picture of frequent defensive gun use implied by the results of earlier, less sophisticated surveys.

And again you lie by omission Brain...

Nonfatal gun woundings are far more frequent than fatal shootings. In 1985 Cook reviewed data that indicate that about 15% of assault-linked gunshot wounds known to the police are fatal, implying a ratio of about 5.67 (85/15) reported nonfatal assaultive gun woundings to each fatal one. Assuming the same applies to legal civilian defensive shootings, there were between 6,300 and 15,300 reported nonfatal, legally permissible woundings of criminals by gun-armed civilians in 1990. Combining the defensive killings and nonfatal woundings, there are about 7,700 to 18,500 reported legal shootings of criminals a year, which would be less than 1% of all defensive gun uses. The rest of defensive gun uses, then, involve neither killings nor woundings but rather misses, warning shots fired, or guns used to threaten, by pointing them or verbally referring to them.

 

[Brain357]

And what Kleck actually says about criminal vs. self defense shootings....

The authors concluded that defensive uses of guns are about three to four times as common as criminal uses of guns. The National Self-Defense Survey confirmed the picture of frequent defensive gun use implied by the results of earlier, less sophisticated surveys.

And again you lie by omission Brain...

Bill that quote doesn't prove anything. Armed criminals are defending against unarmed criminals. So what? Since they count people involved in criminal activity as a defense then that is what is happening.

Armed criminal defends drug stash from unarmed criminal. That happens 3-4 times for every time an armed criminal attempts a crime. So what?

 

[Pogo]

until their criminals change...and decide to start using guns...as the radical Muslims are....

And 1.6 million is an even bigger number if you or a family member is the victim of a rape, stabbing, beating, robbery or murder.....and your gun stops the attacker or attackers.....

so Brain.....I posted a story about a woman 5 months pregnant....stabbed in the stomach by two attackers....violent, aggressive males...who, after being stabbed, drew a gun and drove the men off......if you could go back in time and take that gun away from her so she wouldn't have it to stop the attack....would you...? since you think no one should have a,gun on them to stop violent men from stabbing women....pregnant or not?


Would you go back in time and give a gun to the woman murdere by her husband.....with a 10 dollar hatchet? Or would you let her die?


will you answer these questions since non of the other anti gunners will?

You're still using shortsighted and failed logic.

The issue isn't to "take the gun away" from this woman, or from anyone.
The issue is to "take the gun away" as the automatic go-to solution for everything that happens above the level of a hangnail.

See the big picture -- the forest --- and stop getting lost on a tree.

 

[2aguy]

until their criminals change...and decide to start using guns...as the radical Muslims are....

And 1.6 million is an even bigger number if you or a family member is the victim of a rape, stabbing, beating, robbery or murder.....and your gun stops the attacker or attackers.....

so Brain.....I posted a story about a woman 5 months pregnant....stabbed in the stomach by two attackers....violent, aggressive males...who, after being stabbed, drew a gun and drove the men off......if you could go back in time and take that gun away from her so she wouldn't have it to stop the attack....would you...? since you think no one should have a,gun on them to stop violent men from stabbing women....pregnant or not?


Would you go back in time and give a gun to the woman murdere by her husband.....with a 10 dollar hatchet? Or would you let her die?


will you answer these questions since non of the other anti gunners will?

You're still using shortsighted and failed logic.

The issue isn't to "take the gun away" from this woman, or from anyone.
The issue is to "take the gun away" as the automatic go-to solution for everything that happens above the level of a hangnail.

See the big picture -- the forest --- and stop getting lost on a tree.

The issue is to "take the gun away" as the automatic go-to solution for everything that happens above the level of a hangnail.

Okay...we have around 8-9,000 gun murders a year, on average....most committed in inner cities, in small, multi block areas controlled by gangs and drug dealers...that is the majority of gun related murder.....so....how do you convince teenagers, raised by child mothers, who were raised by their own child mothers, generation after generation, with no adult role models teaching adult, responsible, non violent behavior....to not resort to murder to enforce their gang territory or to avenge any small slight committed by another gang member?

I would like to know how you solve that problem...fix that...and you fix our gun problem.....