Erecting Barriers to Voting is Anti-Democratic

[schmidlap]

I didn't make that claim. I was asking for verification from someone who made the opposite claim, that it was secure. You're attacking a strawman.

So, in the absence of documented, credible evidence otherwise, it is safe to assume voter fraud is not a factor in elections.

 

[Delldude]

No serious cases of fraud have been detected anywhere.

Oh no....

 

[Mac-7]

Millions of legal voters - Republicans, Democrats, Independents - mail in their ballots in both Republican and Democratically-run states.

No serious cases of fraud have been detected anywhere.

Your desire to deny the vote to U.S. military serving overseas is unfortunate.

Since you brought it up, official polling places can be located at the company or battalion level with division or higher level officers as the election judges

Making it virtually impossible for libs to cheat and steal an election

 

[hadit]

So, in the absence of documented, credible evidence otherwise, it is safe to assume voter fraud is not a factor in elections.

It's not safe to assume any such thing, no more than it is safe to assume that, prior to Watergate, no political party spied on another.

 

[westwall]

Bottom Line: Vote-by-Mail is safe and secure, and most Americans support it.

Bottom line: Vote-by-Mail is replete with opportunities for fraud, at every level. It is an authoritarians wet dream for uncontested absolute control over a country.

 

[hadit]

Millions of legal voters - Republicans, Democrats, Independents - mail in their ballots in both Republican and Democratically-run states.

No serious cases of fraud have been detected anywhere.

Your desire to deny the vote to U.S. military serving overseas is unfortunate.

Okay, no problem. The military stationed overseas and those with medical disabilities mail in their votes (just like it's worked for a long time). Everyone else, get your butts down to the poll and vote.

 

[Delldude]

Bottom line: Vote-by-Mail is replete with opportunities for fraud, at every level. It is an authoritarians wet dream for uncontested absolute control over a country.

Even Jimmy Carter said it was ripe for fraud......in 2005.

While the COVID-19 pandemic and record number of voters who cast absentee or mail-in ballots raised concerns about the security of the 2020 absentee process, the Carter-Baker report warned: “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.”

The Carter-Baker Commission, 16 Years Later: Voting by Mail | Baker Institute

In 2005, former President Jimmy Carter and former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker, III, co-chaired the Commission on Federal Election Reform, which produced a report on the U.S. electoral process and recommendations on maximizing ballot access and election integrity.

www.bakerinstitute.org

​

Then suddenly before the 2020 election, he was somehow convinced to change his mind......

CNN —
Jimmy Carter is pushing back on efforts by Attorney General William Barr and the White House to use the former Democratic president’s work studying voting by mail to discredit the practice.

“I approve the use of absentee ballots and have been using them for more than five years,” Carter said in a statement Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/politics/carter-vote-by-mail-safety-barr-white-house

 

[schmidlap]

Okay, no problem. The military stationed overseas and those with medical disabilities mail in their votes (just like it's worked for a long time). Everyone else, get your butts down to the poll and vote.

States run their elections, and those that so choose can opt for mail-in ballots, a method that has proven to be safe and secure, supported by most Americans, despite convicted felons and Russian despots not liking it.

Why would those who claim, without evidence, that vote-by-mail is vulnerable to fraud, extend the opportunity for fraud to overseas military personnel and disabled Americans?

 

[Delldude]

Why would those who claim, without evidence, that vote-by-mail is vulnerable to fraud, extend the opportunity for fraud to overseas military personnel and disabled Americans?

Many countries don't allow it except for limited exceptions.
Disabled Americans are one of the exceptions.

There's quite a bit of highly questionable actions with mail in voting that have been listed on this website many times.

Most of the time and it isn't reported....by the official mouthpiece of the democratic party.

 

[schmidlap]

Many countries don't allow it except for limited exceptions.
Disabled Americans are one of the exceptions.

There's quite a bit of highly questionable actions with mail in voting that have been listed on this website many times.

Most of the time and it isn't reported....by the official mouthpiece of the democratic party.

Vote-by-Mail has proven to be safe and secure in all states that choose that method for their elections - even if Putin tells Americans, "Nyet!"

Mail voting is meticulously designed to ensure overlapping safeguards at every stage of the voting process...​

Why Mail Ballots Are Secure: Layered Safeguards - Institute for Responsive Government

Following recent attacks on mail voting, we outline how mail voting is safe, secure, and trusted for all eligible voters.

responsivegov.org

 

[hadit]

States run their elections, and those that so choose can opt for mail-in ballots, a method that has proven to be safe and secure, supported by most Americans, despite convicted felons and Russian despots not liking it.

Why would those who claim, without evidence, that vote-by-mail is vulnerable to fraud, extend the opportunity for fraud to overseas military personnel and disabled Americans?

Because they have legitimate reasons to not be able to vote in person. I mean, you didn't know that?

 

[BackAgain]

Off topic. Desperate attempt at diversion fails.

Data, not dogma:

A database maintained by the conservative Heritage Foundation that tracks election fraud cases includes 217 total criminal convictions for election-related fraud between 2020 and 2025. Those figures include all types of violations, not just those related to mail-in ballots.​

Despite little hard evidence that rampant voter fraud exists in any form of voting, the idea of “election integrity” has remained the biggest selling point for Trump as he has pushed for sweeping legal reforms and continues to baselessly claim fraud is what cost him the 2020 presidential election.​

MSN​

And, of course, the numbers of prosecutions are for those who got caught. They can’t and they don’t tell us how many succeeded and got away with it.

There are trails, just the same, of election fraud which do exist but which (for a variety of reasons) never got properly and fully aired and scrutinized.

And, moreover, cases which are dismissed on dubious legal grounds before a trial (like a judicial determination about lack of standing or failure proceed at the correct moment in time) also result in the inability to discuss the evidence as a whole.

 

[BackAgain]

Vote-by-Mail has proven to be safe and secure in all states that choose that method for their elections - even if Putin tells Americans, "Nyet!"

Mail voting is meticulously designed to ensure overlapping safeguards at every stage of the voting process...​

Why Mail Ballots Are Secure: Layered Safeguards - Institute for Responsive Government

Following recent attacks on mail voting, we outline how mail voting is safe, secure, and trusted for all eligible voters.

responsivegov.org

Sure.

 

[BackAgain]

Maybe we should, at least, consider that there is evidence of mail-in ballot fraud:

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/108824/documents/HHRG-116-JU00-20190129-SD020.pdf

Despite any built in safeguards at every step of the process, it happens anyway. And those are just the cases in which the effort was caught and prosecuted to a conviction.

 

[Delldude]

Vote-by-Mail has proven to be safe and secure in all states that choose that method for their elections

Registration checks.

Only verified registered voters receive mail ballots. During the registration process, applicant information is verified against a variety of state and federal databases, and an array of federal and state requirements ensure that election officials routinely follow up with voters to ensure their information is current.

This is bullshit. Many states resisted cleaning up or checking voter rolls. After ordered by court, they complied and many illegals were registered to vote.

This is bullshit.

Strict mail security protocols.

Ballots are sent by non-forwardable mail in clearly marked envelopes, often with specialized security protocols like opaque envelopes, tamper-evident seals, and privacy sleeves. Any ballots that are returned as undeliverable are immediately canceled.

Many instances of photocopied or ballots on non official ballot paper being returned.

Signature verification.

Once received by election officials, ballots are not unsealed or removed from envelopes until and unless the information on the ballot envelope is filled out, the signature matches the voter’s signature on file, and the envelope is free from signs of tampering. A failure of any one of these points will be resolved by bipartisan teams, who do not count the ballot unless they can get in touch with the voter who can confirm the authenticity of the ballot or submit a new one.

Bullshit....ends up in court every election over the ability to identify the voter. 'Voters are being disenfranchised' is the cry.

 

[Correll]

There are anti-democratic conspirators spreading lies about vote-by-mail to impede the ability of the elderly, the handicapped, and the poor to vote.

A database maintained by the conservative Heritage Foundation that tracks election fraud cases includes 217 total criminal convictions for election-related fraud between 2020 and 2025. Those figures include all types of violations, not just those related to mail-in ballots.​

Despite little hard evidence that rampant voter fraud exists in any form of voting, the idea of “election integrity” has remained the biggest selling point for Trump as he has pushed for sweeping legal reforms and continues to baselessly claim fraud is what cost him the 2020 presidential election.​

MSN​

​

Most Americans support the right to vote by mail:

A majority of Americans support mail-in voting, according to a new poll...​

In the latest Pew Research Center survey, 58% of respondents said they favor “allowing any voter to vote by mail if they want to.”​

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article311813623.html​

​

Apparently, there are actually stupid/paranoid people who believe that secretly organizing and coordinating significant numbers of bogus voters, faking registrations and I.D.s for all of them, is not a ludicrous way to attempt to pervert a democratic election. That sounds more like the irrational dogma of a cult that reason.

(Those folks who cant' handle the empirical data will mindlessly dismiss the years-long study by the Heritage Foundation and Pew survey as "Fake News!, of course)

NOT remaking our system to help the laziest and dumbest of voters, vote, is not "anti-democratic".

 

[westwall]

States run their elections, and those that so choose can opt for mail-in ballots, a method that has proven to be safe and secure, supported by most Americans, despite convicted felons and Russian despots not liking it.

Why would those who claim, without evidence, that vote-by-mail is vulnerable to fraud, extend the opportunity for fraud to overseas military personnel and disabled Americans?

Because it isn't the same. The ABSENTEE voting system is secure.

The broad based mail in ballots, are not.

 

[schmidlap]

Trump's undermining democracy by whining about a voting method most Americans support anticipates his being a heavy pantload for GOP candidates in midterm elections.

The narcissistic degenerate has pulled this scam before.

 

[hadit]

Trump's undermining democracy by whining about a voting method most Americans support anticipates his being a heavy pantload for GOP candidates in midterm elections.

The narcissistic degenerate has pulled this scam before.

So now it's undermining democracy for someone to express an opinion about a voting method. Yet another load of tripe bites the dust through overuse and misuse.

 

[Delldude]

Trump's undermining democracy by whining about a voting method most Americans support anticipates his being a heavy pantload for GOP candidates in midterm elections.

All kinds of look the other way during the pandemic.

'Never let a crisis go to waste'