Engaging with Trump's die-hard supporters isn't productive

[Mac1958]

Such is the power of ideology. I often say here that trying to communicate with people who are consumed by an ideology is like trying to communicate with a wild-eyed teenaged jihadi on the streets of Damascus. It's pointless.

People like this exist on both ends of the spectrum. It's very possible that people like that will never be part of reasonable, honest, constructive conversation. We just have to work around them, somehow.

You make a great point. There is an argument to be made that NOT engaging kray-kray just gives kray-kray wings. And that civil conversation with cultists can (on occasion) get them to look at things slightly differently - with a modicum of sanity.

But for the most part? Meh ... The writer of this piece is correct - It tends to be an exercise in futility.

Wow.....such educated babble from a lefty......

 

[DrLove]

Oh look, the Himmlerites are declaring those who support Trump as sub-human.

Wonder where these Nazi ***** learned that little trick?

Who in this piece declared Trump supporters to be "subhuman"? Really, it would be interesting to find out.

 

[DrLove]

Good. Then GFY and leave us alone.

Nope, the Atlantic wants to PUNISH Trump supporters.

Forced labor camps are in the works.

"Forced labor camps"? Nah, Uncle Joe will merely grab yer guns and herd you into abandoned Walmarts connected by underground tunnels for deprogramming!

 

[JGalt]

Good. Then GFY and leave us alone.

Nope, the Atlantic wants to PUNISH Trump supporters.

Forced labor camps are in the works.

"Forced labor camps"? Nah, Uncle Joe will merely grab yer guns and herd you into abandoned Walmarts connected by underground tunnels for deprogramming!

If that be the case, look for a shitload of dead people in the near future.

 

[DrLove]

So we America lovers are compared to the jihad by you America haters......telling isn't it?

Anyone who speaks of engaging the US military in an unconstitutional insurrection in order to overturn an election result does not love America.

 

[jbrownson0831]

So we America lovers are compared to the jihad by you America haters......telling isn't it?

Anyone who speaks of engaging the US military in an unconstitutional insurrection in order to overturn an election result does not love America.

I didn't speak that, but there have been plenty of illegal insurrections by the left over the past months in the smoldering Democrat cities.

 

[jknowgood]

As if anyone on the left or sane right hasn't learned this lesson already?

<snips>

Ordinary people worn out by the dramas and lies of the past four years have a right to refuse to take Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters seriously. To reject further debate with people whose views are completely incoherent is not only understandable, but sensible.​

​

I am talking about the people who are giving Trump their full-throated support to the very end, even as he mulls a military coup; the people who buy weird paintings of Trump crossing the Delaware, or who believe that Trump is an agent of Jesus Christ, or who think that Trump is fighting a blood-drinking ring of pedophiles. These supporters have gone far beyond political loyalty and have succumbed to a kind of mass delusion. It is not possible to engage them. Indeed, to argue with them is to legitimize their beliefs, which itself is unhealthy for our democracy.​

​

I don’t want to treat our fellow citizens with open contempt, or to confront and berate them. Rather, I am arguing for silence. The Trump loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories and who remain part of a cult of personality should be deprived of the attention they seek, shunned for their antidemocratic lunacy, and then outvoted at the ballot box.​

​

If we’ve learned one thing about “Trumpism,” it is that there is no such thing as “Trumpism.” No content anchors it; no program or policy comes from it. No motivating ideology stands behind it, unless we think of general grievance and a hatred of cultural and intellectual elites as an “idea.” And when views are incoherent andbeliefs are rooted in fantasies, compromise is impossible. Further engagement is not only unwarranted, but it can also become counterproductive.​

​

We must go on as a nation, and as families. Of course you still love your uncle, even if he is bellowing about stolen elections at Christmas dinner, just as you love your sister-in-law even while she’s trying to ruin a wedding reception by holding forth on socialist saboteurs. But neither they nor the millions of other diehards deserve our engagement. The sooner we refuse to continue such conversations, the sooner we might return to being a serious nation.​

And yet, we do it anyway. Most of us can learn something from this piece. Sure, it's fun to point fingers and laugh at Trumpettes, but it has become counterproductive.

Engaging With Trump’s Die-Hard Supporters Isn’t Productive

The loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories should be deprived of the attention they seek.

www.theatlantic.com

I can see that you would be offended by make American great again. I mean the incomes of people raised at record rates. Unemployment with blacks at a record low. Dow setting records. We know you hate that.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The problem is partly that Trump fanatics and other conspiracy theorists tend to hog any “discussion” of political topics. If folks like you and Mac1958 and a few others didn’t constantly engage with them USMB would be ... unbearable. But with elections over I agree it may be a good idea to limit that engagement, and when necessary just discuss them objectively with sane people of whatever politics.

On the other hand, there really has been very little serious recent discussion here of political and international questions by liberal Democrats, whose polemics have become too centered on opposing Trump on every question. I disagree that Trumpism was only a psychological phenomenon. There was a core of nationalist and anti-immigration issues Trump raised very demagogically ... that are still really important to discuss. The Dems have become a strange corporate-dominated party of “minority” identity politics that is, IMO, sometimes laughably obtuse.

I hope going forward there are also more thoughtful discussions of — for lack of a better term — “Establishment” foreign policy. This is something the Biden administration will have independent control over and responsibility for. Trump sometimes mouthed aspirations to move away from wrongheaded Establishment views, but of course his own patriotic “Americanism” meant he could not fundamentally change policy. He was in the end helpless before the blandishments of the Pentagon, Zionists, and the “Security State.” He basically only added another loud, obtuse and self-destructive Cold War with China to our existing geo-political Cold War against Russia, alienating allies in the process.

Our whole society needs to more deeply examine our own illusions about U.S. “moral exceptionalism” and reject the illusion that “we” can maintain “full spectrum dominance” of the world. Making distinctions between “isolationism” or “America First” economic protectionism on the one hand and rebuilding a “liberal world order” dominated by the U.S. on the other — these should not exhaust the possibilities going forward.

Nothing in life is simple or can be understood as “black or white,” yet (U.S.) Americans by nature divide everything into good or bad, and this makes for combative but ultimately boring political polemics on almost every conceivable issue.

 

[Dana7360]

As if anyone on the left or sane right hasn't learned this lesson already?

<snips>

Ordinary people worn out by the dramas and lies of the past four years have a right to refuse to take Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters seriously. To reject further debate with people whose views are completely incoherent is not only understandable, but sensible.​

​

I am talking about the people who are giving Trump their full-throated support to the very end, even as he mulls a military coup; the people who buy weird paintings of Trump crossing the Delaware, or who believe that Trump is an agent of Jesus Christ, or who think that Trump is fighting a blood-drinking ring of pedophiles. These supporters have gone far beyond political loyalty and have succumbed to a kind of mass delusion. It is not possible to engage them. Indeed, to argue with them is to legitimize their beliefs, which itself is unhealthy for our democracy.​

​

I don’t want to treat our fellow citizens with open contempt, or to confront and berate them. Rather, I am arguing for silence. The Trump loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories and who remain part of a cult of personality should be deprived of the attention they seek, shunned for their antidemocratic lunacy, and then outvoted at the ballot box.​

​

If we’ve learned one thing about “Trumpism,” it is that there is no such thing as “Trumpism.” No content anchors it; no program or policy comes from it. No motivating ideology stands behind it, unless we think of general grievance and a hatred of cultural and intellectual elites as an “idea.” And when views are incoherent andbeliefs are rooted in fantasies, compromise is impossible. Further engagement is not only unwarranted, but it can also become counterproductive.​

​

We must go on as a nation, and as families. Of course you still love your uncle, even if he is bellowing about stolen elections at Christmas dinner, just as you love your sister-in-law even while she’s trying to ruin a wedding reception by holding forth on socialist saboteurs. But neither they nor the millions of other diehards deserve our engagement. The sooner we refuse to continue such conversations, the sooner we might return to being a serious nation.​

And yet, we do it anyway. Most of us can learn something from this piece. Sure, it's fun to point fingers and laugh at Trumpettes, but it has become counterproductive.

Engaging With Trump’s Die-Hard Supporters Isn’t Productive

The loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories should be deprived of the attention they seek.

www.theatlantic.com

I'm very glad to see someone advocate what I have been doing for several years.

I don't engage them 99% of the time.

It's a waste of time to do so.

I have said they should be sunned and not accepted in decent society.

No they won't go away but they also won't have the power to destroy our nation they have now either.

 

[DrLove]

The problem is partly that Trump fanatics and other conspiracy theorists tend to hog any “discussion” of political topics. If folks like you and Mac1958 and a few others didn’t constantly engage with them USMB would be ... unbearable. But with elections over I agree it may be a good idea to limit that engagement, and when necessary just discuss them objectively with sane people of whatever politics.

On the other hand, there really has been very little serious recent discussion here of political and international questions by liberal Democrats, whose polemics have become too centered on opposing Trump on every question. I disagree that Trumpism was only a psychological phenomenon. There was a core of nationalist and anti-immigration issues Trump raised very demagogically ... that are still really important to discuss. The Dems have become a strange corporate-dominated party of “minority” identity politics that is, IMO, sometimes laughably obtuse.

I hope going forward there are also more thoughtful discussions of — for lack of a better term — “Establishment” foreign policy. This is something the Biden administration will have independent control over and responsibility for. Trump sometimes mouthed aspirations to move away from wrongheaded Establishment views, but of course his own patriotic “Americanism” meant he could not fundamentally change policy. He was in the end helpless before the blandishments of the Pentagon, Zionists, and the “Security State.” He basically only added another loud, obtuse and self-destructive Cold War with China to our existing geo-political Cold War against Russia, alienating allies in the process.

Our whole society needs to more deeply examine our own illusions about U.S. “moral exceptionalism” and reject the illusion that “we” can maintain “full spectrum dominance” of the world. Making distinctions between “isolationism” or “America First” economic protectionism on the one hand and rebuilding a “liberal world order” dominated by the U.S. on the other — these should not exhaust the possibilities going forward.

Nothing in life is simple or can be understood as “black or white,” yet (U.S.) Americans by nature divide everything into good or bad, and this makes for combative but ultimately boring political polemics on almost every conceivable issue.

They should maybe change their name from The Republican Party to the NOT Black & WHITEST Party.

 

[Dana7360]

I probably should have put this OP in the Clean Debate Zone. I was kind of looking for sane responses.
Lemme put it this way to Trumpsters: Has arguing with those who don't like Trump been productive for you?
Maybe the time has come for BOTH sides to ignore one another.

It's true though, it's useless engaging with a Cult. Only a mental health professional or a diffusion of their Leader's power can help them. Give it a few news cycles after January 20th.

I wish you were correct but you aren't.

These people still believe that Barak Obama is a muslim from Kenya and Michelle is a man.

There are just some people that you can't help and will never accept reality. Those are the trump people.

 

[jbrownson0831]

As if anyone on the left or sane right hasn't learned this lesson already?

<snips>

Ordinary people worn out by the dramas and lies of the past four years have a right to refuse to take Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters seriously. To reject further debate with people whose views are completely incoherent is not only understandable, but sensible.​

​

I am talking about the people who are giving Trump their full-throated support to the very end, even as he mulls a military coup; the people who buy weird paintings of Trump crossing the Delaware, or who believe that Trump is an agent of Jesus Christ, or who think that Trump is fighting a blood-drinking ring of pedophiles. These supporters have gone far beyond political loyalty and have succumbed to a kind of mass delusion. It is not possible to engage them. Indeed, to argue with them is to legitimize their beliefs, which itself is unhealthy for our democracy.​

​

I don’t want to treat our fellow citizens with open contempt, or to confront and berate them. Rather, I am arguing for silence. The Trump loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories and who remain part of a cult of personality should be deprived of the attention they seek, shunned for their antidemocratic lunacy, and then outvoted at the ballot box.​

​

If we’ve learned one thing about “Trumpism,” it is that there is no such thing as “Trumpism.” No content anchors it; no program or policy comes from it. No motivating ideology stands behind it, unless we think of general grievance and a hatred of cultural and intellectual elites as an “idea.” And when views are incoherent andbeliefs are rooted in fantasies, compromise is impossible. Further engagement is not only unwarranted, but it can also become counterproductive.​

​

We must go on as a nation, and as families. Of course you still love your uncle, even if he is bellowing about stolen elections at Christmas dinner, just as you love your sister-in-law even while she’s trying to ruin a wedding reception by holding forth on socialist saboteurs. But neither they nor the millions of other diehards deserve our engagement. The sooner we refuse to continue such conversations, the sooner we might return to being a serious nation.​

And yet, we do it anyway. Most of us can learn something from this piece. Sure, it's fun to point fingers and laugh at Trumpettes, but it has become counterproductive.

Engaging With Trump’s Die-Hard Supporters Isn’t Productive

The loyalists who still cling to conspiracy theories should be deprived of the attention they seek.

www.theatlantic.com

I'm very glad to see someone advocate what I have been doing for several years.

I don't engage them 99% of the time.

It's a waste of time to do so.

I have said they should be sunned and not accepted in decent society.

No they won't go away but they also won't have the power to destroy our nation they have now either.

Well plus you are hiding in your basement where the wifi isnt as good......

 

[jbrownson0831]

I probably should have put this OP in the Clean Debate Zone. I was kind of looking for sane responses.
Lemme put it this way to Trumpsters: Has arguing with those who don't like Trump been productive for you?
Maybe the time has come for BOTH sides to ignore one another.

It's true though, it's useless engaging with a Cult. Only a mental health professional or a diffusion of their Leader's power can help them. Give it a few news cycles after January 20th.

I wish you were correct but you aren't.

These people still believe that Barak Obama is a muslim from Kenya and Michelle is a man.

There are just some people that you can't help and will never accept reality. Those are the trump people.

He was born to a Muslim father by law of religion he is in fact a Muslim. And Big Mike has a big Adam's Apple.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Oh look, the Himmlerites are declaring those who support Trump as sub-human.

Wonder where these Nazi ***** learned that little trick?

When you dehumanize someone then you can do anything to that person.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So we America lovers are compared to the jihad by you America haters......telling isn't it?

Anyone who speaks of engaging the US military in an unconstitutional insurrection in order to overturn an election result does not love America.

The way you Stalinists have done for the last 5 years - as you worked with China to make it happen?

 

[TheGreatSatan]

I would say that going back and forth with Trump-hating Chinocrats.. or in my case just even reading others do so.. is repetitive, boring, pointless, and makes this forum far less worth the clicks than it could be.

You unleash the term "Chinocrats" and expect to be taken seriously?
Okay

Chinacrats are either treasonous ccp counterparts or total useful idiots. The Democrat party is infested, willingly, by their Chinese counterparts spies.

 

[Leo123]

Another Atlantic hate-Trump hit piece.....meh

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Democrats are either...

Treasonous counterparts of the CCP

Or

Useful idiots unwittingly doing the CCP's bidding

 

[Rawley]

I wish you were correct but you aren't.
These people still believe that Barak Obama is a muslim from Kenya and Michelle is a man.
There are just some people that you can't help and will never accept reality. Those are the trump people.

And there are folks on your side that believe Joe isn't suffering from diminished mental capacity and that Kamala didn't sleep her way to the top.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It isn't supposed to be productive.