end the embargo/restrictions on cuba

[Yurt]

well....what is the point? IMO, it is more counterproductive now than when originally implemented....

 

[foggedinn]

well....what is the point? IMO, it is more counterproductive now than when originally implemented....

I've never really understood the reasons for the embargo. I've listened to the arguments from mostly Cuban Americans who are quite fanatical about it. In their own minds, these arguments must make sense to them. They have just never made any sense to me.

Maybe we are just really, really, really, really embarrassed about the Bay of Pigs fiasco. After all, as long as we keep up the embargo, we don't have to come to terms with it.

 

[Yurt]

well....what is the point? IMO, it is more counterproductive now than when originally implemented....

I've never really understood the reasons for the embargo. I've listened to the arguments from mostly Cuban Americans who are quite fanatical about it. In their own minds, these arguments must make sense to them. They have just never made any sense to me.

Maybe we are just really, really, really, really embarrassed about the Bay of Pigs fiasco. After all, as long as we keep up the embargo, we don't have to come to terms with it.

i don't agree with that....american history books tell quite clearly what happened in that fiasco... further, that is history, and if one looks at current events is quite clear that the restrictions are harmful, for us and for cuba. they serve no purpose. in the beginning they did, but not now.

 

[Chris]

Cuba needs casinos.

Then they will become Americanized.

 

[Yurt]

Cuba needs casinos.

Then they will become Americanized.

moron, as if only america had casinos

 

[Chris]

Cuba needs casinos.

Then they will become Americanized.

moron, as if only america had casinos

Cranky, aren't we?

 

[auditor0007]

You would think ending the embargo and attempting to have some type of relationship with Cuba would do more to move Cuba away from their current form of government than what we are doing now.

 

[elvis]

Cuba needs casinos.

Then they will become Americanized.

moron, as if only america had casinos

Cranky, aren't we?

Have you moved to Cuba yet, fuckstain?

 

[Yurt]

Cuba needs casinos.

Then they will become Americanized.

moron, as if only america had casinos

Cranky, aren't we?

i don't know, are you....you made the generalization....

wonder why you can't back your comment up.....

 

[elvis]

moron, as if only america had casinos

Cranky, aren't we?

i don't know, are you....you made the generalization....

wonder why you can't back your comment up.....

don't hold your breath.

 

[DamnYankee]

Why the Cuban Trade Embargo Should Be Maintained

"The list of those who favor lifting the embargo goes beyond the United States, though. NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada, two of Cuba's largest trading partners, also are among the most forceful proponents of ending the embargo."

Hmm... NAFTA. That surprise anyone?

"Those who favor lifting the embargo often point to the examples of Vietnam and China to justify their position, claiming that eliminating the embargo will encourage the growth of a free-market economy which will undermine the communist regime. Such comparisons are not valid. Capitalism is destroying communism in China, but the driving force is not international trade. It is a strong domestic market economy tolerated by the communist government."

"the Castro regime is not willing to liberalize the economy and create a free market. Cuban exile communities in the United States, Latin America, and Europe are not willing to work with Castro, and market initiatives by the Castro regime to encourage them to do so are very recent, dating from 1993 for the most part. The basic orientation of the hard-liners surrounding Castro is to contain and restrict all initiatives that unleash individual entrepreneurship and creativity. For example, the government has arrested people for earning "too much" money in the dollarized informal economy, the variety of legally permitted "family businesses" has been restricted, and tax rates on the income of self- employed Cubans have been increased. Moreover, Cuba's constitution and legislation specifically prohibit all private initiative, notwithstanding recent reforms allowing self-employment by Cubans in approximately 140 categories of economic activity from which all professionals (the core of any middle class) are expressly barred. For over three decades, the regime has operated on the basis of divide and rule."

"Castro's recent comments and actions make it clear how fruitless it would be for the United States to make concessions now. Even without access to U.S. markets and investments, there are many steps Castro could take to improve economic and political conditions within his country, but he refuses to do so. These include:

Adopting free-market policies that include a reform of Cuba's constitution and passage of laws to abolish all legal prohibition of private enterprise and property ownership.

Holding democratic elections in the context of a politically pluralist society in which the Communist Party is compelled to compete with democratic organizations and political parties.

Freeing all political prisoners currently in Cuban jails.

Disbanding the Interior Ministry's security police and the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, which function as thought-control police and as spies in every neighborhood in Cuba.

Eliminating the Marxist political indoctrination, which is a central feature of Cuba's education system.

Restoring all confiscated assets and properties to their rightful owners, or agreeing to pay appropriate compensation for what the regime has stolen from them.

Without these steps, lifting the embargo would only assure Castro's continuing repression of the Cuban people. Those who advocate doing so are violating their own professed commitment to hemispheric democracy and the individual's right to self-determination. Castro is a ruthless, charismatic dictator and is a potential danger to all democratic, freedom-loving nations. He is an anachronism, but a dangerous one. The embargo, however, is not an anachronism; it is a legitimate instrument for achieving the goal of a free and democratic Cuba."

"The Cuban people must understand that it is up to them to solve the social, economic, and political crisis caused by the Castro regime. U.S. taxpayers should no longer be compelled to finance the costs of Castro's unremitting tyranny. The Cuban people have the power to determine their own government. The energy and courage invested in braving the shark- filled Florida Straits would be spent better in Cuba, working to bring down Castro.

Demand that U.S. allies in the Western Hemisphere, including Mexico and Canada, stop coddling Castro and start calling for real changes."

"CONCLUSION

The 32-year-old trade embargo against Cuba may finally be producing its intended results of destabilizing the island's communist government and weakening Fidel Castro's control of the Cuban people. Castro has resisted change for over five years since losing the Soviet Union's financial support, but his final collapse may be closer than ever before. Nevertheless, he continues his visceral loathing of democracy and the free market, all the while demanding the embargo be lifted without condition. It seems clear that Castro believes his survival hinges on the embargo's elimination. Paradoxically, just as Castro's communist government may be close to falling, a chorus of voices in the U.S. has risen to call for the lifting of the embargo. They cite several reasons: to ease the suffering of the Cuban people, to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities other countries allegedly are enjoying in Cuba, and to establish the bases of a free-market economy that in time will compel democratic reforms as well. But the greatest beneficiary would be Fidel Castro, whose 35-year-old communist dictatorship would be fortified overnight if he were allowed access to the billions of dollars in financial aid from multilateral agencies, credit guarantees, and investment that would start flowing into Cuba.

The United States must not abandon the Cuban people by relaxing or lifting the trade embargo against the communist regime. Instead, the U.S. government must reject all pressures to ease the embargo until all of the objectives for which it was imposed are achieved. Anything less would constitute an unacceptable breach of faith with the Cuban people, who today are among the very few people left in the world who still suffer the brutality of a communist dictatorship."

This was written during the Clinton administration. Do you see that anything has changed? What has Obama said on this issue?

No discussion on Cuba trade, says Obama
BY JUHEL BROWNE
[email protected]
United States President Barack Obama does not believe there needs to be any discussion of his country's 47-year-old trade embargo against Cuba when he attends the Fifth Summit of the Americas here later this month.

"The policy of the United States on Cuba is that we hope that the Cuban people will someday be able to share the same kind of democracy that the people of Trinidad have," [ambassador Jeffrey] Davidow, who is overseeing preparations for Obama's participation in the summit, said.

In a radio address last week, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez, a strong ally of Cuba, called for Cuba's inclusion in the summit and urged Obama to lift his country's 47-year-old trade embargo on that country.

Commenting on this yesterday, Davidow said, "We do not believe that Cuba should be at the summit because the summit is for the community of democratically elected heads of state. I don't think anybody in Trinidad would argue that Raul Castro was democratically elected."

"Certainly, the American president is coming to the summit with the intention of meeting and talking with all of his democratically-elected colleagues in the hemisphere. It is not our intention to have difficulties with any of these countries or with their leaders," Davidow said.

No discussion on Cuba trade, says Obama - Summit of the Americas - MiamiHerald.com

Now one might argue that we are trying to impose our democratic beliefs on others. However, it seems that only the leader(s) of Cuba are not in favor of this -- Cuba's people certainly seem to anxious for the opportunity. On the other hand, we, the U.S., have big mouths and wallets when it comes to leaders/countries in which physical genocide takes place. Why close our mouths and wallets when it comes to mental/emotional genocide? It doesn't appear that we have closed our mouths -- only our wallets.

 

[eots]

the casino comment was in reference to the fact that before the revolution Cuba was used as Americas off shore Vegas/whorehouse...but now we all live in a one party socialist state the embargo does seem redundant...I mean cuba won right ?

 

[foggedinn]

Looks like allbiz is well connected to a very slick propaganda pusher. A lot of disingenuous facts that establish nothing. Allegations of brutality that our own govt. engages in on a regular basis; claims of political prisoners that can be justifiably made against every govt. on the planet; demands for the return of unlawfully appropriated property that can only be negotiated if and when the embargo is lifted.

What a bunch of cow flop.

 

[Toro]

I agree. We should scrap this anachronism. It does more harm than good since the regime uses it to whip up anti–Americanism as a way of maintaining power. Plus American businesses are being left behind.

 

[DamnYankee]

Looks like allbiz is well connected to a very slick propaganda pusher. A lot of disingenuous facts that establish nothing. Allegations of brutality that our own govt. engages in on a regular basis; claims of political prisoners that can be justifiably made against every govt. on the planet; demands for the return of unlawfully appropriated property that can only be negotiated if and when the embargo is lifted.

What a bunch of cow flop.

Feel free to point out the "propaganda" and "disingenuous facts that establish nothing" in what was posted:

Why the Cuban Trade Embargo Should Be Maintained

"The list of those who favor lifting the embargo goes beyond the United States, though. NAFTA partners Mexico and Canada, two of Cuba's largest trading partners, also are among the most forceful proponents of ending the embargo."

Hmm... NAFTA. That surprise anyone?

"Those who favor lifting the embargo often point to the examples of Vietnam and China to justify their position, claiming that eliminating the embargo will encourage the growth of a free-market economy which will undermine the communist regime. Such comparisons are not valid. Capitalism is destroying communism in China, but the driving force is not international trade. It is a strong domestic market economy tolerated by the communist government."

"the Castro regime is not willing to liberalize the economy and create a free market. Cuban exile communities in the United States, Latin America, and Europe are not willing to work with Castro, and market initiatives by the Castro regime to encourage them to do so are very recent, dating from 1993 for the most part. The basic orientation of the hard-liners surrounding Castro is to contain and restrict all initiatives that unleash individual entrepreneurship and creativity. For example, the government has arrested people for earning "too much" money in the dollarized informal economy, the variety of legally permitted "family businesses" has been restricted, and tax rates on the income of self- employed Cubans have been increased. Moreover, Cuba's constitution and legislation specifically prohibit all private initiative, notwithstanding recent reforms allowing self-employment by Cubans in approximately 140 categories of economic activity from which all professionals (the core of any middle class) are expressly barred. For over three decades, the regime has operated on the basis of divide and rule."

"Castro's recent comments and actions make it clear how fruitless it would be for the United States to make concessions now. Even without access to U.S. markets and investments, there are many steps Castro could take to improve economic and political conditions within his country, but he refuses to do so. These include:

Adopting free-market policies that include a reform of Cuba's constitution and passage of laws to abolish all legal prohibition of private enterprise and property ownership.

Holding democratic elections in the context of a politically pluralist society in which the Communist Party is compelled to compete with democratic organizations and political parties.

Freeing all political prisoners currently in Cuban jails.

Disbanding the Interior Ministry's security police and the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, which function as thought-control police and as spies in every neighborhood in Cuba.

Eliminating the Marxist political indoctrination, which is a central feature of Cuba's education system.

Restoring all confiscated assets and properties to their rightful owners, or agreeing to pay appropriate compensation for what the regime has stolen from them.

Without these steps, lifting the embargo would only assure Castro's continuing repression of the Cuban people. Those who advocate doing so are violating their own professed commitment to hemispheric democracy and the individual's right to self-determination. Castro is a ruthless, charismatic dictator and is a potential danger to all democratic, freedom-loving nations. He is an anachronism, but a dangerous one. The embargo, however, is not an anachronism; it is a legitimate instrument for achieving the goal of a free and democratic Cuba."

"The Cuban people must understand that it is up to them to solve the social, economic, and political crisis caused by the Castro regime. U.S. taxpayers should no longer be compelled to finance the costs of Castro's unremitting tyranny. The Cuban people have the power to determine their own government. The energy and courage invested in braving the shark- filled Florida Straits would be spent better in Cuba, working to bring down Castro.

Demand that U.S. allies in the Western Hemisphere, including Mexico and Canada, stop coddling Castro and start calling for real changes."

"CONCLUSION

The 32-year-old trade embargo against Cuba may finally be producing its intended results of destabilizing the island's communist government and weakening Fidel Castro's control of the Cuban people. Castro has resisted change for over five years since losing the Soviet Union's financial support, but his final collapse may be closer than ever before. Nevertheless, he continues his visceral loathing of democracy and the free market, all the while demanding the embargo be lifted without condition. It seems clear that Castro believes his survival hinges on the embargo's elimination. Paradoxically, just as Castro's communist government may be close to falling, a chorus of voices in the U.S. has risen to call for the lifting of the embargo. They cite several reasons: to ease the suffering of the Cuban people, to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities other countries allegedly are enjoying in Cuba, and to establish the bases of a free-market economy that in time will compel democratic reforms as well. But the greatest beneficiary would be Fidel Castro, whose 35-year-old communist dictatorship would be fortified overnight if he were allowed access to the billions of dollars in financial aid from multilateral agencies, credit guarantees, and investment that would start flowing into Cuba.

The United States must not abandon the Cuban people by relaxing or lifting the trade embargo against the communist regime. Instead, the U.S. government must reject all pressures to ease the embargo until all of the objectives for which it was imposed are achieved. Anything less would constitute an unacceptable breach of faith with the Cuban people, who today are among the very few people left in the world who still suffer the brutality of a communist dictatorship."

This was written during the Clinton administration. Do you see that anything has changed? What has Obama said on this issue?

No discussion on Cuba trade, says Obama
BY JUHEL BROWNE
[email protected]
United States President Barack Obama does not believe there needs to be any discussion of his country's 47-year-old trade embargo against Cuba when he attends the Fifth Summit of the Americas here later this month.

"The policy of the United States on Cuba is that we hope that the Cuban people will someday be able to share the same kind of democracy that the people of Trinidad have," [ambassador Jeffrey] Davidow, who is overseeing preparations for Obama's participation in the summit, said.

In a radio address last week, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez, a strong ally of Cuba, called for Cuba's inclusion in the summit and urged Obama to lift his country's 47-year-old trade embargo on that country.

Commenting on this yesterday, Davidow said, "We do not believe that Cuba should be at the summit because the summit is for the community of democratically elected heads of state. I don't think anybody in Trinidad would argue that Raul Castro was democratically elected."

"Certainly, the American president is coming to the summit with the intention of meeting and talking with all of his democratically-elected colleagues in the hemisphere. It is not our intention to have difficulties with any of these countries or with their leaders," Davidow said.

No discussion on Cuba trade, says Obama - Summit of the Americas - MiamiHerald.com

Now one might argue that we are trying to impose our democratic beliefs on others. However, it seems that only the leader(s) of Cuba are not in favor of this -- Cuba's people certainly seem to anxious for the opportunity. On the other hand, we, the U.S., have big mouths and wallets when it comes to leaders/countries in which physical genocide takes place. Why close our mouths and wallets when it comes to mental/emotional genocide? It doesn't appear that we have closed our mouths -- only our wallets.

 

[Silver Diva]

I have to add my voice to those who say that it is time to lift the embargo on Cuba. For the longest time, the only reason the embargo existed was political. Castro remained in power for the next several decades. There is no one in the world who can show that the regime in Cuba is more totalitarian, and that Cuba has a worse human rights record than many of our so-called "allies". Think Saudi Arabia, or even Egypt!! Certainly, China has a worse record than Cuba does - think Tianamen!! Yet, we have an embargo against Cuba and China has Most Favored Nation status. What appears to be happening now is that the Bay of Pigs generation of Cuban immigrants in the US is slowly disappearing, and the children of that generation appear to be more open to normalizing relations with Cuba.

 

[mightypeon]

Precisly what should be the motivation for Castro et. al. to so such steps?
the Cuban education system is properly quite good, since Cuba regularly exports its Doctors.
Given the stuff that the USA have already attempted against Cuba and the stuff the USA are currently doing on other fronts, you cannot fault Castro for having a strong secret police.
Resotring confiscated assets to their reightful owners?
Bunch of Bull, as if Cuba was a wealthy country before Castro took power. That is about as likely as Russia restoring East Prussia to Germany. Actually it is less likely, restoring east Prussia to Germany would totally divide the Nato and the EU, meaning the Russians may employ that if they want to mess up EU and NATO.

Why should Castro even care if exiliants are willing to work with them? If Castro would have wanted to work with the exiles, he wouldnt have exiled them in the first place.

Concerning political prisoners, the "political prisoner" of the one side tends to be the "unlawfull combatant" of the other side. It is not as if exil Cubans are above blowing up people.

Removing the sanction would allow foreing contact, it would also help to establish a Cuban Middle class. This Cuban middle class, which would not have a lot in common with the Cuban exiles, would propably reform cuba, but in a way that would leave the exiles out of power.
This is the other reasons why the Exiles and their propaganda say what they are saying.

P.S. regarding Marxist propaganda, I am not aware of Cuban Banks loosing Billions of Dollars in the subprime Crisis.

 

[Mad Scientist]

P.S. regarding Marxist propaganda, I am not aware of Cuban Banks loosing Billions of Dollars in the subprime Crisis.

Uh, and why would they? The Cuban government owns everything. They don't have an economy, they have a dictatorship. People can't refi their houses because they don't own them. You think that's a plus? It's still Cuba and life still sucks there in spite of what the National Black Caucus says.

And did you know MightyPeon that Cuba (meaning Castro) still trades with the rest of the world, just not the U.S.? If Cuba can trade with the rest of the world then why is it still a shitehole? Hint: His last name starts with a "C".

 

[mightypeon]

Well, given some life quality indexes its not much more of a shithole than lets say Columbia.
Mind you, I wasnt personally there yet (although its fairly easy to get there, Tourism from Europe is met with few restrictions), but I totally dont get the hype about Castro beeing the heinous evil Uberdictator, there are a lot of dictators worse than him.
For instance, Cuba has political prisoners, other countrys have political cementaries.

P.S. I think the equation "Cuba= East German Republic" may not be that far fetched, I did live in East Germany, and, provided you had no funny ideas about annoying the gouverment, one could live a fairly productive and happy live there, Marx bless FKK (Frei-Körper-Kultur, Predominantly East German practice of bathing totally naked)

P.P.S. Do you know what most former Stasi officials (Stasi= East German KGB) are doing now? Beeing employed by various cooperations, they spy on trade unions and independent minded employees.