Election Day 2019

Uncensored2008

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zaangalewa

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That's why the USA liked to isolate GB and was sucessful in manipulating the Brits to do so?
"the times they are a changing"
Again this "argument"? You should perhaps really sing this song to find out how strange this sounds in my ears in this context. Specially because it were the young Brits, who liked to stay in Europe. The Old Brits forgot their own youth, I fear.

 
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Tommy Tainant

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As the negotiations drag on he will have to deal with problems in Ireland where he has united both sets of bigots against him. This will soon acquire a body count. On his alternate days he will have to deal with the exit of Scotland. These will create problems for him. The unionist campaign against the scots has already started.

There is a theory that the tories will use him as the clownish front man whilst the real villains work behind the scenes to drag the country back. Bit like in the US.

Dont underestimate the sheer shitness of some of these new tory constituencies. Their mps will find it a full time job dealing with the problems of the poor. Not something they usually have to deal with. Meanwhile the nhs will continue to collapse and crime will continue to rocket. As the economy continues to contract tax revenue will decline and the noose will tighten.

It wont be fun to watch but it should kill off the tories for good.
There is, I am sure, a lot to the above. I fully agree he'll be the PR clown - while others do the hard policy work - which leaves him a lot of time scheming and manipulating, where he's on his home turf. That's my argument. He will do irreparable damage to the UK in pursuit of his aims, which extend far beyond merely dealing with Scotland (no referendum for them) and Northern Ireland, as he's trying to shape the UK Constitution (such as it is) and the electoral map in the Tories' favor. I think we can also agree that BoJo is looking attentively over The Pond, watching Trump trying to emasculate or weaponize the courts and and diminish Congress. In other words, BoJo will work as the PR clown while trying to secure the Tories' power in office, the rest be damned, and that includes (in my view) the poverty and misery in the Tories' newly won constituencies.

I am also pretty sure the world has yet to grasp that new phenomenon, the first two alternate-reality clowns masquerading as heads of state (yeah, I know, the queen, but). There is, I think, no one as of yet who has a firm, solidly grounded understanding how that was possible, and how to deal with it. There is no explanation, as far as I have seen, how things worked out in a way that both Trump and BoJo could make it that far. How was it possible they could, in mature democracies, mobilize sycophancy and authoritarian subservience to such a degree they not only made it into their respective offices, they might, despite their obvious ridiculousness, even do it again?

We may well have declining living standards for those at or near the bottom, a declining middle class, deteriorating health, declining life expectancy in the U.S. (which never happened outside of times of major wars), and we may well have a far bigger problem in the form of frontal assaults on democracy and the rule of law itself. And let's not even talk about the even bigger challenge, though related, of climate change. It sure won't be fun to watch, and the British press, I find, is even less prepared to deal with it all than is the American.
Well I am trying to be positive in a challenging environment. It will take a while for the dust to settle, at the moment the left is ripping into itself looking for a scapegoat.

I suppose we should now stop laughing at US stupidity in voting for Trump, Johnson is even lower calibre if that were possible. People with shit lives vote for more shitness. How do you rationalise that ?

One thing I picked up on from this and the brexit debacle. The areas that made intelligent choices were generally places that had better educated electorates. University cities,High Tec hubs and so on.

Blyth Valley voted tory for the first time ever. Ive cutnpasted this from a tweet.

Due to austerity,
Blyth Valley has 14,847 (24.18%) children living in poverty.
26.7% of households are classed as fuel poor.
The unemployment rate is 31%.
They have just voted for #Conservative
... Unbelievable.

Its a former mining community that hasnt even recovered from Thatcher.

Now, these idiots believe that brexit is going to transform their lives. It will make them worse. Their new tory MP is going to have to deal with the backlash at some point. Incidentally, he was found to have lied about his job on his CV so he is prime tory. The question now is how bad do things have to get before people this stupid realise that an election is not some form of reality show.

I suppose the really scary thing is not knowing if we have reached bottom yet. 2020 should tell us that.

nb - worth pointing out that more people voted for left-wing politics than right-wing. Over 3m more, same as the US did in 16. All hope not lost.
 

CrusaderFrank

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As the negotiations drag on he will have to deal with problems in Ireland where he has united both sets of bigots against him. This will soon acquire a body count. On his alternate days he will have to deal with the exit of Scotland. These will create problems for him. The unionist campaign against the scots has already started.

There is a theory that the tories will use him as the clownish front man whilst the real villains work behind the scenes to drag the country back. Bit like in the US.

Dont underestimate the sheer shitness of some of these new tory constituencies. Their mps will find it a full time job dealing with the problems of the poor. Not something they usually have to deal with. Meanwhile the nhs will continue to collapse and crime will continue to rocket. As the economy continues to contract tax revenue will decline and the noose will tighten.

It wont be fun to watch but it should kill off the tories for good.
There is, I am sure, a lot to the above. I fully agree he'll be the PR clown - while others do the hard policy work - which leaves him a lot of time scheming and manipulating, where he's on his home turf. That's my argument. He will do irreparable damage to the UK in pursuit of his aims, which extend far beyond merely dealing with Scotland (no referendum for them) and Northern Ireland, as he's trying to shape the UK Constitution (such as it is) and the electoral map in the Tories' favor. I think we can also agree that BoJo is looking attentively over The Pond, watching Trump trying to emasculate or weaponize the courts and and diminish Congress. In other words, BoJo will work as the PR clown while trying to secure the Tories' power in office, the rest be damned, and that includes (in my view) the poverty and misery in the Tories' newly won constituencies.

I am also pretty sure the world has yet to grasp that new phenomenon, the first two alternate-reality clowns masquerading as heads of state (yeah, I know, the queen, but). There is, I think, no one as of yet who has a firm, solidly grounded understanding how that was possible, and how to deal with it. There is no explanation, as far as I have seen, how things worked out in a way that both Trump and BoJo could make it that far. How was it possible they could, in mature democracies, mobilize sycophancy and authoritarian subservience to such a degree they not only made it into their respective offices, they might, despite their obvious ridiculousness, even do it again?

We may well have declining living standards for those at or near the bottom, a declining middle class, deteriorating health, declining life expectancy in the U.S. (which never happened outside of times of major wars), and we may well have a far bigger problem in the form of frontal assaults on democracy and the rule of law itself. And let's not even talk about the even bigger challenge, though related, of climate change. It sure won't be fun to watch, and the British press, I find, is even less prepared to deal with it all than is the American.
Well I am trying to be positive in a challenging environment. It will take a while for the dust to settle, at the moment the left is ripping into itself looking for a scapegoat.

I suppose we should now stop laughing at US stupidity in voting for Trump, Johnson is even lower calibre if that were possible. People with shit lives vote for more shitness. How do you rationalise that ?

One thing I picked up on from this and the brexit debacle. The areas that made intelligent choices were generally places that had better educated electorates. University cities,High Tec hubs and so on.

Blyth Valley voted tory for the first time ever. Ive cutnpasted this from a tweet.

Due to austerity,
Blyth Valley has 14,847 (24.18%) children living in poverty.
26.7% of households are classed as fuel poor.
The unemployment rate is 31%.
They have just voted for #Conservative
... Unbelievable.

Its a former mining community that hasnt even recovered from Thatcher.

Now, these idiots believe that brexit is going to transform their lives. It will make them worse. Their new tory MP is going to have to deal with the backlash at some point. Incidentally, he was found to have lied about his job on his CV so he is prime tory. The question now is how bad do things have to get before people this stupid realise that an election is not some form of reality show.

I suppose the really scary thing is not knowing if we have reached bottom yet. 2020 should tell us that.

nb - worth pointing out that more people voted for left-wing politics than right-wing. Over 3m more, same as the US did in 16. All hope not lost.
Thank the Good Lord the Internet itself has provided the very forum from which Progressives completely destroy their self-proclamation notion that they are the elites, the intellectuals.
 

Olde Europe

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Well I am trying to be positive in a challenging environment. It will take a while for the dust to settle, at the moment the left is ripping into itself looking for a scapegoat.

I suppose we should now stop laughing at US stupidity in voting for Trump, Johnson is even lower calibre if that were possible. People with shit lives vote for more shitness. How do you rationalise that ?

One thing I picked up on from this and the brexit debacle. The areas that made intelligent choices were generally places that had better educated electorates. University cities,High Tec hubs and so on.

Blyth Valley voted tory for the first time ever. Ive cutnpasted this from a tweet.

Due to austerity,
Blyth Valley has 14,847 (24.18%) children living in poverty.
26.7% of households are classed as fuel poor.
The unemployment rate is 31%.
They have just voted for #Conservative
... Unbelievable.

Its a former mining community that hasnt even recovered from Thatcher.

Now, these idiots believe that brexit is going to transform their lives. It will make them worse. Their new tory MP is going to have to deal with the backlash at some point. Incidentally, he was found to have lied about his job on his CV so he is prime tory. The question now is how bad do things have to get before people this stupid realise that an election is not some form of reality show.

I suppose the really scary thing is not knowing if we have reached bottom yet. 2020 should tell us that.

nb - worth pointing out that more people voted for left-wing politics than right-wing. Over 3m more, same as the US did in 16. All hope not lost.
I hear you.

Try to make your argument without disparaging THEM as idiots. Assume, for the sake of the debate, they made a rational decision, maybe from a limited point of view, and taking a rather near-term perspective. What were they trying to accomplish? Doing so, I think, would be more instructive than your frustration-driven argument. A swing of that magnitude needs a proper explanation, and assuming they've turned into idiots between the last two elections, aiming "for more shitness", doesn't cut it.
 
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Tommy Tainant

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Well I am trying to be positive in a challenging environment. It will take a while for the dust to settle, at the moment the left is ripping into itself looking for a scapegoat.

I suppose we should now stop laughing at US stupidity in voting for Trump, Johnson is even lower calibre if that were possible. People with shit lives vote for more shitness. How do you rationalise that ?

One thing I picked up on from this and the brexit debacle. The areas that made intelligent choices were generally places that had better educated electorates. University cities,High Tec hubs and so on.

Blyth Valley voted tory for the first time ever. Ive cutnpasted this from a tweet.

Due to austerity,
Blyth Valley has 14,847 (24.18%) children living in poverty.
26.7% of households are classed as fuel poor.
The unemployment rate is 31%.
They have just voted for #Conservative
... Unbelievable.

Its a former mining community that hasnt even recovered from Thatcher.

Now, these idiots believe that brexit is going to transform their lives. It will make them worse. Their new tory MP is going to have to deal with the backlash at some point. Incidentally, he was found to have lied about his job on his CV so he is prime tory. The question now is how bad do things have to get before people this stupid realise that an election is not some form of reality show.

I suppose the really scary thing is not knowing if we have reached bottom yet. 2020 should tell us that.

nb - worth pointing out that more people voted for left-wing politics than right-wing. Over 3m more, same as the US did in 16. All hope not lost.
I hear you.

Try to make your argument without disparaging THEM as idiots. Assume, for the sake of the debate, they made a rational decision, maybe from a limited point of view, and taking a rather near-term perspective. What were they trying to accomplish? Doing so, I think, would be more instructive than your frustration-driven argument. A swing of that magnitude needs a proper explanation, and assuming they've turned into idiots between the last two elections, aiming "for more shitness", doesn't cut it.
Why Labour lost - and how it can recover from an epic defeat
This is a decent summation. The tories hired better people whilst labour strategy was akin to student politics.
 

Toro

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The young Corbynistas were canvassing, telling people “This isn’t the party of Tony Blair.”

Yeah, the only guy to win an election for Labour in 40+ years, and they’re running away from him.

The party has gone too far to the left. Unless they pull their heads out of the backsides, the Tories are going to be in power for a long, long time.
 

gtopa1

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Well I am trying to be positive in a challenging environment. It will take a while for the dust to settle, at the moment the left is ripping into itself looking for a scapegoat.

I suppose we should now stop laughing at US stupidity in voting for Trump, Johnson is even lower calibre if that were possible. People with shit lives vote for more shitness. How do you rationalise that ?

One thing I picked up on from this and the brexit debacle. The areas that made intelligent choices were generally places that had better educated electorates. University cities,High Tec hubs and so on.

Blyth Valley voted tory for the first time ever. Ive cutnpasted this from a tweet.

Due to austerity,
Blyth Valley has 14,847 (24.18%) children living in poverty.
26.7% of households are classed as fuel poor.
The unemployment rate is 31%.
They have just voted for #Conservative
... Unbelievable.

Its a former mining community that hasnt even recovered from Thatcher.

Now, these idiots believe that brexit is going to transform their lives. It will make them worse. Their new tory MP is going to have to deal with the backlash at some point. Incidentally, he was found to have lied about his job on his CV so he is prime tory. The question now is how bad do things have to get before people this stupid realise that an election is not some form of reality show.

I suppose the really scary thing is not knowing if we have reached bottom yet. 2020 should tell us that.

nb - worth pointing out that more people voted for left-wing politics than right-wing. Over 3m more, same as the US did in 16. All hope not lost.
I hear you.

Try to make your argument without disparaging THEM as idiots. Assume, for the sake of the debate, they made a rational decision, maybe from a limited point of view, and taking a rather near-term perspective. What were they trying to accomplish? Doing so, I think, would be more instructive than your frustration-driven argument. A swing of that magnitude needs a proper explanation, and assuming they've turned into idiots between the last two elections, aiming "for more shitness", doesn't cut it.
The Tommy Ts of this world are why we have conservatives in all sorts of places. Sometimes people just want common decency and jobs. For that they're the "scum of the earth"??? lmao

As for Wrexham going Tory; lmao. Tommy can't blame "northern shitholes" neglected by Labour when they want to get back to work...something he obviously doesn't want.

Greg
 

Olde Europe

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Why Labour lost - and how it can recover from an epic defeat
This is a decent summation. The tories hired better people whilst labour strategy was akin to student politics.
Yeah, I read quite similar accounts before. It's how pundits would describe Corbyn's defeat, and the reasons for it.

It enrages me no end how none fails to mention the much-hyped "anti-Semitism" charge. Apparently, BoJo's islamophobia, homophobia, misogyny, and racism play no role at all, and neither his mendacity. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Of course, one who might become PM and - horrendous as it is - would even sit down with, and talk to, Palestinians, would have expect being decried that way, no?

The article doesn't even begin to answer what I thought would be the natural, salient question: "Assume, for the sake of the debate, they made a rational decision, maybe from a limited point of view, and taking a rather near-term perspective. What were they (long-time Labour voters checking 'Tory' this time) trying to accomplish?"

Here's my take: They wanted Brexit done, out of the way, "bag" the advantages derived from less freedom of movement across British borders, and the national attention back to national problems (as opposed to the endless Brexit procedures, or EU rules and regulations). They didn't exactly, in my reading, endorse the Tories, neither reject Labour, ideologically, they just chose "get Brexit done" in order to put an end to the endless haggling. Period.

Their first disappointment will be that it's going to take a long time actually to negotiate the final status agreement. They will not be particularly disappointed over the Tories' continued austerity for the bottom half of society, and neither the Tories' generosity with the top 10%. It's rather what they would expect.

What that means is, with the personally not especially appealing Corbyn out of the way, and Britain in need of a lot of reconstruction after what the Tories are going to inflict on the nation, Corbyn's Labour platform might get a second look. If they streamline it somewhat, it may well turn out to become a winning formula. If my reading of the electorate is half-ways correct, and Labour losses concentrated in pro-Leave regions really tell us something, this was a one-off, and the Tories must know they do not stand a chance of winning all, or even most, of these traditional Labour constituencies again.
 

zaangalewa

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For Boris Johnson voted 43.1% from 67.3% of the eligible population => that's only 29% of the population, who had the right to vote. So 71% of the Brits did not vote for Boris Johnson and his way. Did GB really vote for the answer "Brexit" and is ready to offer their "blood, sweat and tears" for this vital question of the British nation? What is manipulation in this question - and what is the true will of the Brits? What is the future for the next generation of young Brits? What has Boris Johnson to offer them?

 
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ding

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The young Corbynistas were canvassing, telling people “This isn’t the party of Tony Blair.”

Yeah, the only guy to win an election for Labour in 40+ years, and they’re running away from him.

The party has gone too far to the left. Unless they pull their heads out of the backsides, the Tories are going to be in power for a long, long time.
You are a linear thinker trapped inside a cyclical universe.
 

ding

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The ship is going down. Does it matter who’s piloting it?
 

zaangalewa

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id GB really vote for the answer "Brexit"
Yes ... for the second time.
No. Also the referendium was manipulated - specially from the USA. Including the Brits, whose right to vote was stolen, because they lived longer than 15 years not in GB, the manipulated result of the referendum was abhout 50:50. So the true result was for sure not for the Brexit. In best case the result was "We don't know, what to do". For a vital question for a whole country a 50:50 answer was not enough consent.

By the way. Why is it for the manipulating USA so important, that the UK leaves the EU?
 
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fncceo

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id GB really vote for the answer "Brexit"
Yes ... for the second time.
No. Also the referendium was manipulated - specially from the USA. Including the Brits, whose right to vote was stolen, because they lived longer than 15 years not in GB, the manipulated result of the referendum was abhout 50:50. So the true result was for sure not for the Brexit. In best case the result was "We don't know, what to do". For a vital question for a whole country a 50:50 answer was not enough consent.

By the way. Why is it for the manipulating USA so important, that the UK leaves the EU?
At least you didn't blame the Russians. Everyone else, but not the Russians.
 

zaangalewa

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The ship is going down. Does it matter who’s piloting it?
Sure, captain. Call "Mayday" - or was it "Christmas day"? Bring the passengers into the dinghies ... and so blubb and so on and so SOS.
 
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zaangalewa

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id GB really vote for the answer "Brexit"
Yes ... for the second time.
No. Also the referendium was manipulated - specially from the USA. Including the Brits, whose right to vote was stolen, because they lived longer than 15 years not in GB, the manipulated result of the referendum was abhout 50:50. So the true result was for sure not for the Brexit. In best case the result was "We don't know, what to do". For a vital question for a whole country a 50:50 answer was not enough consent.

By the way. Why is it for the manipulating USA so important, that the UK leaves the EU?
At least you didn't blame the Russians. Everyone else, but not the Russians.
The Russians manipulated perhaps too - but this was not effective. I fear the US secret services were effective with their mind manipulations. Tell me: Why is it for you personally important, that the UK leaves the EU?

 
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PoliticalChic

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Tommy, Wales is in real trouble. The EU will no longer provide Wales with the huge financial assistance it has been giving it and Boris Johnson doesn't have the budget to match what the EU was giving Wales. How will Wales survive?

Does this mean you may have to get a job and start supporting yourself?

.


Well....they can always sell some of the extra letters they put in Welsh names......
 

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