Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism

[Shusha]

On the second - I disagree. The issue is that it unilaterally removes that area from negotiations on a future state of Palestine, much as Jerusalem was unilaterally removed from the table.

Yes. But again -- you keep skipping the WHY. The WHY is ALWAYS because of anti-Jewish discrimination. Why must Israel keep East Jerusalem? Why must Israel keep the specific areas with large Jewish populations? What is the REASON behind it?

...here is another why - WHY has Israel been systematically and deliberately changing the demographics of those areas to favor Jews and disenfranchise Arabs?

I think there is a too-quick labeling of this as anti-Jewish discrimmination.

Go ahead. Give a shot at the WHY.

Facts on the ground. It makes it that much easier to gain all of Jerusalum. Isn't that discriminatory? Jewish settlement activities in Jerusalum are government funded or supported in many cases. Are Arab expansions?

Arab expansions are supported not only by Palestine, but also by the US, the EU and the international community generally. THAT is the double standard.

WHY does Israel want (need) Jerusalem?

 

[Coyote]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ What BDS is all about. Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land. Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]


The “three D” test is a definition of antisemitism crafted by Natan Sharansky, the former head of the Jewish Agency. In 2004, Sharansky outlined what he called “new antisemitism”.

Demonization, he wrote, is when Israel’s actions are blown out of all sensible proportion and comparisons are made, for example, between Israelis and Nazis, and between Palestinian refugee camps and Auschwitz. Double standard is when criticism of Israel is applied selectively and the Jewish state is singled out, for example, by the United Nations. Delegitimization, Sharansky wrote, is when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied.

The BDS campaign does not call for the boycott and divestment from Israel because it wants peace. It calls for a one-state solution, one which BDS supporters envisage will one day end the Zionist enterprise that led 70 years ago to the establishment of the world’s only Jewish state.

(full article online)

New antisemitism

I'm going to disagree a bit here, not because I particularly agree with BDS (it's frequent comparison's to apartheid are questionable, as is an insistence on right to return) - BUT, I went to their main webpage to see what they had to say about themselves. They don't call for a one state solution or any solution nor do they call for an end to Israel proper.

FAQs

The BDS movement aims to pressure Israel to respect international law by:


1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.


2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.


3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.


These are three basic rights without which the Palestinian people cannot exercise its inalienable right to self-determination.​

The BDS movement does not advocate for a particular solution to the conflict and does not call for either a “one state solution” or a “two state solution”. Instead, BDS focuses on the realization of basic rights and the implementation of international law.

[1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.]

They may not be telling people this BUT All of Israel is considered Arab land.

Arab Israelis have full rights, to vote, work, etc

So, 1 and 2 are kind of confusing for those who do not know what is really on the mind of the Arab leaders, who have made it very clear in their Charters, that their final goal is the destruction of Israel by any means available.

 

[Coyote]

On the second - I disagree. The issue is that it unilaterally removes that area from negotiations on a future state of Palestine, much as Jerusalem was unilaterally removed from the table.

Yes. But again -- you keep skipping the WHY. The WHY is ALWAYS because of anti-Jewish discrimination. Why must Israel keep East Jerusalem? Why must Israel keep the specific areas with large Jewish populations? What is the REASON behind it?

...here is another why - WHY has Israel been systematically and deliberately changing the demographics of those areas to favor Jews and disenfranchise Arabs?

I think there is a too-quick labeling of this as anti-Jewish discrimmination.

Go ahead. Give a shot at the WHY.

Facts on the ground. It makes it that much easier to gain all of Jerusalum. Isn't that discriminatory? Jewish settlement activities in Jerusalum are government funded or supported in many cases. Are Arab expansions?

Arab expansions are supported not only by Palestine, but also by the US, the EU and the international community generally. THAT is the double standard.

WHY does Israel want (need) Jerusalem?

Are they supported in response to the long-standing Israeli settlement building and expansions? One that is for Jews only? How many Arab settlments have been created? No one has yet answered that. How many Arab settlers have come in from elsewhere to live in those communities? No one answered that. How many Jewish settlements have been created? How many Jews have come in from elsewhere to live in those communitees? I don't think we can talk about double standards with out answers.

 

[Coyote]

[ What BDS is all about. Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land. Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]


The “three D” test is a definition of antisemitism crafted by Natan Sharansky, the former head of the Jewish Agency. In 2004, Sharansky outlined what he called “new antisemitism”.

Demonization, he wrote, is when Israel’s actions are blown out of all sensible proportion and comparisons are made, for example, between Israelis and Nazis, and between Palestinian refugee camps and Auschwitz. Double standard is when criticism of Israel is applied selectively and the Jewish state is singled out, for example, by the United Nations. Delegitimization, Sharansky wrote, is when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied.

The BDS campaign does not call for the boycott and divestment from Israel because it wants peace. It calls for a one-state solution, one which BDS supporters envisage will one day end the Zionist enterprise that led 70 years ago to the establishment of the world’s only Jewish state.

(full article online)

New antisemitism

I'm going to disagree a bit here, not because I particularly agree with BDS (it's frequent comparison's to apartheid are questionable, as is an insistence on right to return) - BUT, I went to their main webpage to see what they had to say about themselves. They don't call for a one state solution or any solution nor do they call for an end to Israel proper.

FAQs

The BDS movement aims to pressure Israel to respect international law by:


1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.


2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.


3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.


These are three basic rights without which the Palestinian people cannot exercise its inalienable right to self-determination.​

The BDS movement does not advocate for a particular solution to the conflict and does not call for either a “one state solution” or a “two state solution”. Instead, BDS focuses on the realization of basic rights and the implementation of international law.

[1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.]

They may not be telling people this BUT All of Israel is considered Arab land.

Arab Israelis have full rights, to vote, work, etc

So, 1 and 2 are kind of confusing for those who do not know what is really on the mind of the Arab leaders, who have made it very clear in their Charters, that their final goal is the destruction of Israel by any means available.

For a discussion we can really only go by what they say and do, and they specified "West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights" - if you have evidence that they want to "de-occupy" Israel proper - show me.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, I take that back. We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

 

[Sixties Fan]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

Settler violence on Arabs is not sanctioned by Israel, at all.

On the other hand, take a look on what Hamas and others are doing in Gaza and Area C and Jerusalem, inciting any new possible ways to terrorize or kill Jews.

What does one think they have been doing since March with the March of Return?

And, yes, a ONE State solution where Muslims are the only ones in power.....is the ultimate solution they seek. Always has been

 

[Sixties Fan]

Actually, I take that back. We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

Finish that sentence. Who is being restricted?

 

[Shusha]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

A million Arabs live in Israel. They do not fear for their lives. As you said, numbers matter.

 

[Coyote]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

Settler violence on Arabs is not sanctioned by Israel, at all.

On the other hand, take a look on what Hamas and others are doing in Gaza and Area C and Jerusalem, inciting any new possible ways to terrorize or kill Jews.

What does one think they have been doing since March with the March of Return?

And, yes, a ONE State solution where Muslims are the only ones in power.....is the ultimate solution they seek. Always has been

It's not sanctioned but it OCCURS and little is done to prevent it or seek justice compared to violence on settlers. This is a long standing problem, and Israel only recently awoke to the fact that settler violence was potentially an issue to take seriously. Despite that, they still tend to be handled with kid gloves because of the political clout they carry.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, I take that back. We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

Finish that sentence. Who is being restricted?

Arabs from moving into Israel.

 

[Coyote]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

A million Arabs live in Israel. They do not fear for their lives. As you said, numbers matter.

I said numbers matter little.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ What BDS is all about. Please tell me that it is only about Israel, and that Russians, Turks, British, go through the same thing for occupying another people's land. Although, of course, is not "occupying" any other people's land]


The “three D” test is a definition of antisemitism crafted by Natan Sharansky, the former head of the Jewish Agency. In 2004, Sharansky outlined what he called “new antisemitism”.

Demonization, he wrote, is when Israel’s actions are blown out of all sensible proportion and comparisons are made, for example, between Israelis and Nazis, and between Palestinian refugee camps and Auschwitz. Double standard is when criticism of Israel is applied selectively and the Jewish state is singled out, for example, by the United Nations. Delegitimization, Sharansky wrote, is when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied.

The BDS campaign does not call for the boycott and divestment from Israel because it wants peace. It calls for a one-state solution, one which BDS supporters envisage will one day end the Zionist enterprise that led 70 years ago to the establishment of the world’s only Jewish state.

(full article online)

New antisemitism

I'm going to disagree a bit here, not because I particularly agree with BDS (it's frequent comparison's to apartheid are questionable, as is an insistence on right to return) - BUT, I went to their main webpage to see what they had to say about themselves. They don't call for a one state solution or any solution nor do they call for an end to Israel proper.

FAQs

The BDS movement aims to pressure Israel to respect international law by:


1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.


2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.


3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.


These are three basic rights without which the Palestinian people cannot exercise its inalienable right to self-determination.​

The BDS movement does not advocate for a particular solution to the conflict and does not call for either a “one state solution” or a “two state solution”. Instead, BDS focuses on the realization of basic rights and the implementation of international law.

[1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.]

They may not be telling people this BUT All of Israel is considered Arab land.

Arab Israelis have full rights, to vote, work, etc

So, 1 and 2 are kind of confusing for those who do not know what is really on the mind of the Arab leaders, who have made it very clear in their Charters, that their final goal is the destruction of Israel by any means available.

For a discussion we can really only go by what they say and do, and they specified "West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights" - if you have evidence that they want to "de-occupy" Israel proper - show me.

Syrian Golan, is between Israel and Syria and not with the Palestinians.

Gaza is not in dispute, it is fully controlled by a Muslim government.

Areas A and C are controlled by the PA.

"East" Jerusalem ( The Jewish Quarter until 1948) will never be returned, divided, sliced or anything else, ever again )

 

[Coyote]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

Settler violence on Arabs is not sanctioned by Israel, at all.

On the other hand, take a look on what Hamas and others are doing in Gaza and Area C and Jerusalem, inciting any new possible ways to terrorize or kill Jews.

What does one think they have been doing since March with the March of Return?

And, yes, a ONE State solution where Muslims are the only ones in power.....is the ultimate solution they seek. Always has been

Then show me where they state that.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Actually, I take that back. We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

Finish that sentence. Who is being restricted?

Arabs from moving into Israel.

Which Arabs are not allowed to move to Israel?

And can you show us where Jews are allowed to return or move to any part of Gaza or Jordan where they used to live until 1920 (Gaza) or TranJordan (1925) ?

 

[Coyote]

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

Finish that sentence. Who is being restricted?

Arabs from moving into Israel.

Which Arabs are not allowed to move to Israel?

And can you show us where Jews are allowed to return or move to any part of Gaza or Jordan where they used to live until 1920 (Gaza) or TranJordan (1925) ?

I'm going to wait until some of my questions get answered. I seem to be answering a lot, but not getting answers in return.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

In ancient Western Europe women were property, Jews were frequently expelled, subject to pogroms and restrictions and periodically killed.

You have dodged my question. I answered yours. In a conversation it is polite to answer each other's questions. Islam again is very tough not to judge very negatively. My Muslim friends here in the US. Great guys. Treat their women as 2nd class. Both had arranged marriages.

"My Muslim friends here in the US. Great guys"



....is this what their wives look like? seriously.






i know the same muslims you know.




"great guys."



ohhhhhhh yeah.......

​

​

They're.Grrrrrrrrrreeaat !

​

​

​

What does that have to do with anything?

Why do you always answer questions with questions. Can we agree that Islam is indeed the "mother load of bad ideas"?

Because that post asked me no questions and made little sense in relation to the topic - hence my question - what does it have to do with the discussion? Member can always choose to actually converse should he want to instead of posting pictures of women in burkhas which is rarely worn by Palestinian women.

No. Because you are essentially broadbrushing an entire religion and on top of that - providing erroneous information. You claimed in historical Western Europe women were treated like queens. That is laughable. All religions in their conservative sects and history have treated women like shit and like property. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism - but you ignore that. Now I will agree that in the modern world, in many countries Islam is more conservative, more restrictive and much in need of enlightenment but that is also tied to the culture. Muslims in America for example, are no different than their Christian counterparts but that is ignored in the broad brushing and it is in that where I have an issue. Are you questions sufficiently answered?

Nope. Why do you think in the modern world every majority Muslim country is socially backwards where compared to Western nations? Coincidence or is that ideology extremely flawed? Do tell.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I would disagree with the second - I suspect they too would fear for their lives.

Oh come on. There are a million Arab Israelis. They don't fear for their lives.

Israel has the power to squash them and does little to restrict settler violence. Numbers matter little in comparison to power.

Settler violence on Arabs is not sanctioned by Israel, at all.

On the other hand, take a look on what Hamas and others are doing in Gaza and Area C and Jerusalem, inciting any new possible ways to terrorize or kill Jews.

What does one think they have been doing since March with the March of Return?

And, yes, a ONE State solution where Muslims are the only ones in power.....is the ultimate solution they seek. Always has been

Then show me where they state that.

Google the Hamas Charter. Or the PLO charter. Or the Fatah charter.

Here is a hint:

Belgium funded school formerly named after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi changes name and logo – logo now includes PA map presenting all of Israel as “Palestine”
Source: Facebook page of the Dalal Mughrabi Beit Awwa Coed Elementary School, Aug. 25, 2018

Logo posted on the Facebook page of the Dalal Mughrabi Coed School

The name of the Facebook page has not been changed even though the school was officially renamed The Belgian School – Tala’ei Al-Janoub instead of the Dalal Mughrabi Coed School in August 2018. The Facebook page still features the name of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who led the murder of 37, 12 of them children.

The school's new logo (above right) contains the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas, covered by a Palestinian flag, an open book at the bottom of the map, and to its right, a face with a keffiya (Arab headdress) around it. At the top is the new name of the school: "The Belgian School – Tala’ei Al-Janoub." The school's previous logo (above left), containing a picture of terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, still appears in the photo album associated with the Facebook page as of Aug. 29, 2018.
Click to view bulletin

Click "full article" for more information

http://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=466&doc_id=26308
Oslo mayor awarded with “Jibril Rajoub” plaque with map erasing Israel on it
Source: Official PA daily, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Aug. 3, 2018

Headline: “The Al-Quds Girls team gave the mayor of Oslo the Rajoub Plaque”

The article includes a picture of Al-Quds Girls team administrative manager Khitam Mahmoud giving Oslo Mayor Marianne Borgen the “Jibril Rajoub Plaque,” which includes the PA map of “Palestine” that presents all of Israel as “Palestine” together with the PA areas, and on top of it what appears to be the Al-Aqsa Mosque and a Palestinian flag.

"Palestine" replaces Israel | PMW

 

[Coyote]

You have dodged my question. I answered yours. In a conversation it is polite to answer each other's questions. Islam again is very tough not to judge very negatively. My Muslim friends here in the US. Great guys. Treat their women as 2nd class. Both had arranged marriages.

"My Muslim friends here in the US. Great guys"



....is this what their wives look like? seriously.






i know the same muslims you know.




"great guys."



ohhhhhhh yeah.......

​

​

They're.Grrrrrrrrrreeaat !

​

​

​

What does that have to do with anything?

Why do you always answer questions with questions. Can we agree that Islam is indeed the "mother load of bad ideas"?

Because that post asked me no questions and made little sense in relation to the topic - hence my question - what does it have to do with the discussion? Member can always choose to actually converse should he want to instead of posting pictures of women in burkhas which is rarely worn by Palestinian women.

No. Because you are essentially broadbrushing an entire religion and on top of that - providing erroneous information. You claimed in historical Western Europe women were treated like queens. That is laughable. All religions in their conservative sects and history have treated women like shit and like property. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism - but you ignore that. Now I will agree that in the modern world, in many countries Islam is more conservative, more restrictive and much in need of enlightenment but that is also tied to the culture. Muslims in America for example, are no different than their Christian counterparts but that is ignored in the broad brushing and it is in that where I have an issue. Are you questions sufficiently answered?

Nope. Why do you think in the modern world every majority Muslim country is socially backwards where compared to Western nations? Coincidence or is that ideology extremely flawed? Do tell.

Most complex problems do not have simple answers - that is one of them. Why is every majority Buddhist country socially backwards compared to Western nations? Why is every majority Hindu country socially backwards compared to Western nations? Why are Christian majority countries in Africa socially backwards compared to Western nations?

Religion? Something else? I vote for something else since it's clearly not just Islam.

 

[Shusha]

Actually, I take that back. We should include Israel as well, since BDS calls for Arab return to Israel "proper".

That would confuse things since few think that Israel proper is in dispute.

BDS does. Gaza does (March of Return ring a bell?)

If Jews should not be permitted to move to Arab Palestine, then Arabs should not be permitted to move to Israel.

Actually...they are heavily restricted from doing so...

Which is the RIGHT and PROPER thing to do, according to those who would restrict Jews from certain places. The double standard occurs when one people demands presence while the other people is restricted in presence. Which do you think it SHOULD be? And then WHY isn't it?