Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism

[rylah]

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

Then boycott Arab product from the area as well,
moral relativism all the way ...

No need to. We have the most powerful country in the world already disinvesting them don’t we?

And how many countries are there in the world?
Let alone, how many Muslim countries have been boycotting Israel since its' reconstitution?

You see the problem with moral relativism is that it only postpones the need for a simple moral decision,
at some point someone either chooses to condemn antisemitism, or attempt to invent excuses to keep the disease alive. Jews are the canary of the world, nations that suffer periods of antisemitism they don't survive too long - especially the big heavy empires...

But here is where I see the issue: too often any criticism of Israeli policy gets branded anti Semitic.

Example?
And we're back to blame the victim for the crime...

 

[Coyote]

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

"Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.."

Too much money being...funneled to the terrorist government to make bomb kites and rockets and toys for terrorists. Not toys for tots.

but you know this already - the world is sick & tired of writing checks to terrorists.




you see the news about it all the time [unless you really are naïve about it) ....i'm all for sending pallets of food/water/medicine/bibles/soap/toilet paper.....and helpful items to the women and children and the elderly.....

terrorists are the palestinian people's government......dispute that ?

The disenvestment includes a cessation of money given to Jerusalem hospitals serving Palestinians. How is that supporting terrorists? If that aid were withdrawn from Jewish hospitals it would be branded anti Semitic would it not?

 

[Coyote]

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

Then boycott Arab product from the area as well,
moral relativism all the way ...

No need to. We have the most powerful country in the world already disinvesting them don’t we?

And how many countries are there in the world?
Let alone, how many Muslim countries have been boycotting Israel since its' reconstitution?

You see the problem with moral relativism is that it only postpones the need for a simple moral decision,
at some point someone either chooses to condemn antisemitism, or attempt to invent excuses to keep the disease alive. Jews are the canary of the world, nations that suffer periods of antisemitism they don't survive too long - especially the big heavy empires...

But here is where I see the issue: too often any criticism of Israeli policy gets branded anti Semitic.

Example?

I can’t think of specifics at the moment, I will need to look through threads.

 

[Shusha]

But here is where I see the issue: too often any criticism of Israeli policy gets branded anti Semitic.

What criticism of Israeli policy? I've seen too little of that.

 

[rylah]

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

"Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.."

Too much money being...funneled to the terrorist government to make bomb kites and rockets and toys for terrorists. Not toys for tots.

but you know this already - the world is sick & tired of writing checks to terrorists.




you see the news about it all the time [unless you really are naïve about it) ....i'm all for sending pallets of food/water/medicine/bibles/soap/toilet paper.....and helpful items to the women and children and the elderly.....

terrorists are the palestinian people's government......dispute that ?

The disenvestment includes a cessation of money given to Jerusalem hospitals serving Palestinians. How is that supporting terrorists? If that aid were withdrawn from Jewish hospitals it would be branded anti Semitic would it not?

Here's an idea, read the article.
It deals with definitions, there's an official working definition of antisemitism, You know?

 

[Coyote]

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements?

The term "settlements" itself assumes all sorts of things, though. Did you want to compare it to a boycott of Morocco?

Why?

Because Morocco is comparable and yet no one is boycotting Morocco. Why is that, do you think?

Cuba is has boycotts. Russia is boycotting Ukrainian goods. Disinvestment policies have targeted Iran, Cuba, Northern Ireland, Sudan, and Myanmar.

Clearly there are other countries as bad or worse than some of these which are ignored.

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is. It is a means of putting pressure on the country to change something. It is in fact the rationale the Trump Administration is giving for total disinvesting of the Palestinians. How is putting pressure on Israel bad but putting that same pressure on Palestinians good?

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

 

[Shusha]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

 

[Coyote]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

 

[Shusha]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live? Examples?

 

[member]

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

"Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.."

Too much money being...funneled to the terrorist government to make bomb kites and rockets and toys for terrorists. Not toys for tots.

but you know this already - the world is sick & tired of writing checks to terrorists.




you see the news about it all the time [unless you really are naïve about it) ....i'm all for sending pallets of food/water/medicine/bibles/soap/toilet paper.....and helpful items to the women and children and the elderly.....

terrorists are the palestinian people's government......dispute that ?

The disenvestment includes a cessation of money given to Jerusalem hospitals serving Palestinians. How is that supporting terrorists? If that aid were withdrawn from Jewish hospitals it would be branded anti Semitic would it not?

...I feel bad for the palestinians.


pt blankmore and his theatre-group people & face-painting folks....I know he was trying to show another side of the palestinans. in 7 a.d., the land was stolen from the jews....then the muslims stole palestine ....now...well, you see.

thank Goodness israel hasn't really levelled the place...

....the terrorists have to go. if not, you're going to have to monitor this board then...forever.....

 

[rylah]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live? Examples?

A whole bunch of them. Wouldn't get closer than a gun range.
Is it a problem?

 

[Shusha]

Let me put this another way in order to make it perfectly clear, with respect to settlements.

IF the presence of Jewish people on "Palestinian land" is fundamentally a problem, then the presence of Arabs on "Jewish land" is ALSO fundamentally a problem.

BDS, which calls for the presence of Arabs in both territories, while denying the presence of Jews in ALL areas, demonstrates its inherent discrimination of Jews.

 

[Coyote]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live? Examples?

According to Wikipedia: On 30 June 2014, according to the Yesha Council, 382,031 Israeli citizens lived in the 121 officially recognised Israeli settlements in the West Bank, almost exclusively Jewish citizens of Israel.

The law might say discrimination isn’t allowed but it de facto occurs and there seems little effort to discourage it or encourage diversity.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Education Dept. : BDS activity against Israel will be defined as anti-Semitism
※→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

I think we are tending to mix the apples with the oranges.

BDS can never confront their own anti-semitism. To do so would be to destroy the very goals that BDS was created to achieve -- which is to deny Jewish national independence. That goal is fundamentally discriminatory.

Isn’t there a legitimate non anti Semitic reason to boycott products from settlements? I think there is. Right now we have the US government practicing complete disinvestment of Palestinians...no outcry.

(COMMENT)

IF the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement were to stick to the legal and moral debate about the Israeli Occupation and the legitimacy of Israeli seizures of [Annexation and Settlements (two different types of seizure)] real estate and territory, THEN that would not be anti-Semetic. That would be perfectly acceptable. Provided that the treatise used is not anti-Semitic - in and by itself.

BUT! WHEN the BDS Movement breaks that barrier of justifying the purpose and arranges the objectives as a means of hostility to - or - prejudice against Jews (religious ferver) THEN you run up against anti-Semetism.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

A whole bunch of them. Wouldn't get closer than a gun range.
Is it a problem?

Nope. Not a problem. As long as:

1. It is not entrenched in law. (And its not. In fact, its prohibited by law)
2. This condition only occurs during periods of active conflict. (Which currently exists)

 

[rylah]

FOR CONTEXT:

TEXTS ADOPTED
P8_TA(2017)0243 - Combating anti-semitism European Parliament
resolution of 1 June 2017 on combating anti-Semitism

2.Calls on the Member States and the Union institutions and agencies to adopt and apply the working definition of anti-Semitism employed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) in order to support the judicial and law enforcement authorities in their efforts to identify and prosecute anti-Semitic attacks more efficiently and effectively, and encourages Member States to follow the example of the UK and Austria in this regard;

WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

English (English) | European Forum on Antisemitism

 

[Shusha]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live? Examples?

According to Wikipedia: On 30 June 2014, according to the Yesha Council, 382,031 Israeli citizens lived in the 121 officially recognised Israeli settlements in the West Bank, almost exclusively Jewish citizens of Israel.

The law might say discrimination isn’t allowed but it de facto occurs and there seems little effort to discourage it or encourage diversity.

Likewise, ALL of Areas A and B and Gaza and all Arab villages and towns in Area C are exclusively Arab. We are AGREEING that this is discriminatory, yes? Therefore, your arguments AGAINST places where Jews live, without an equal and opposite argument AGAINST places where Arabs, live is discriminatory.

 

[Coyote]

I am not sure that in and of itself disenvestment and boycotts against settlements is anti Semitic, in fact I don’t think it is.

The very idea of "settlements" (places where Jews are not permitted to live) is anti-semitic.

I do think however that BDS movement attracts anti semites to its ranks because it allows them to legitimize their anti Semitism.

We agree.

Well, these are settlements where non Jews are not allowed to live.

There are settlements where non-Jews are not permitted to live? Examples?

According to Wikipedia: On 30 June 2014, according to the Yesha Council, 382,031 Israeli citizens lived in the 121 officially recognised Israeli settlements in the West Bank, almost exclusively Jewish citizens of Israel.

The law might say discrimination isn’t allowed but it de facto occurs and there seems little effort to discourage it or encourage diversity.

Likewise, ALL of Areas A and B and Gaza and all Arab villages and towns in Area C are exclusively Arab. We are AGREEING that this is discriminatory, yes? Therefore, your arguments AGAINST places where Jews live, without an equal and opposite argument AGAINST places where Arabs, live is discriminatory.

How many of those are newly created in occupied/disputed territory vs long established? Not all Jewish or Arab towns are settlements, the term has a specific meaning.

 

[P F Tinmore]

IF the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement were to stick to the legal and moral debate about the Israeli Occupation and the legitimacy of Israeli seizures of [Annexation and Settlements (two different types of seizure)] real estate and territory, THEN that would not be anti-Semetic. That would be perfectly acceptable. Provided that the treatise used is not anti-Semitic - in and by itself.

Criticizing government policy and actions is not anti Semitic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

FOR CONTEXT:

TEXTS ADOPTED
P8_TA(2017)0243 - Combating anti-semitism European Parliament
resolution of 1 June 2017 on combating anti-Semitism

2.Calls on the Member States and the Union institutions and agencies to adopt and apply the working definition of anti-Semitism employed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) in order to support the judicial and law enforcement authorities in their efforts to identify and prosecute anti-Semitic attacks more efficiently and effectively, and encourages Member States to follow the example of the UK and Austria in this regard;

WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

English (English) | European Forum on Antisemitism

Cool, that leaves BDS off the hook.