Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about "Russia"'s interference in US-elections

[Litwin]

Let me ask you a question, if Obama had come out in the summer of 2016 and said that there was concrete evidence that Russia was trying to help Trump win the election, would you have believed him or would you have thought that he was just trying to interfere so that Hillary could win?

Why must one have been of one or the other of those two minds? I suspect that a lot of folks may have been keen to believe both those things were true, and that one was true does not preclude the other from also having been true.

The reality of life, things, etc. is that a lot fewer things are "either-or" (mutually exclusive) matters than are concurrent matters. Why it is that people don't realize that is beyond me, but, judging by the nature of propositions I see and hear people present, it's clear that far too many people, IMO, do not realize it.

Right now I say about 60%-70% of the country is living in a black and white world where the validity of whatever it is in question is tied directly to how it affects their chosen political party.

Right now, USA lost the big hybrid war to "Nigeria in snow"

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, I believe it. So why didn't Obama do anything? I mean, your own link says 2016, and who was President?

There is no way you can blame Trump for this, not possible, lol.

Let me ask you a question, if Obama had come out in the summer of 2016 and said that there was concrete evidence that Russia was trying to help Trump win the election, would you have believed him or would you have thought that he was just trying to interfere so that Hillary could win?

lets me ask you a question, what this story has to with B Obama?

Well, as it was pointed out he was the POTUS when it was all going on.

Well, look at it this way--------->nobody on the left believes anything that the Trump team or people on the right are saying about this matter, do they?

So why would we believe Obama without proof?

A generic "Russia is trying to interfere," everyone would believe. But, without proof if he pointed one way or the other, nobody would have believed. That is why THIS evidence was gathered. I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to believe an opinion piece either, nor should you me. But, facts have no political leanings; facts are facts. It is exactly why this is all coming to a head, and as far as I am concerned, let the chips fall where they may.

If nothing else, win or lose on the facts, our intelligence agencies are going to be throttled back, as will the FISA courts when dealing with American citizens. That is win for all of us!

Because the fucking treasonous fat senile old orange clown has lied about everything else.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

 

[Old Rocks]

View attachment 173696

Like President Pussy Grabber, you are a liar.

 

[Litwin]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

the same Kochs who build Koba´s GULAG Like "industries "? IF SO for me they are DEVILS , for what they done in 20th and 30th
"In 1929, Koch's partner Lewis Winkler's former employer, Universal Oil Products (now UOP LLC), sued Winkler-Koch for patent infringement. Also that year, nearly three years before the patent case went to trial, Winkler-Koch signed contracts to build petroleum distillation plants in the Soviet Union, which did not recognize intellectual property rights.[12]

This extended litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. "Unable to succeed at home, Koch found work in the Soviet Union".[13] Between 1929 and 1932 Winkler-Koch "trained Bolshevik engineers[14] and helped Stalin’s regime set up fifteen modern oil refineries" in the Soviet Union....."[13]"

 

[HappyJoy]

I guess the Dutch are now on his shit list too.

 

[Litwin]

View attachment 173696

Like President Pussy Grabber, you are a liar.

the traitors try very hard to cover their treason with pulled out of ass an idiot "Uranium 1" , doesn´t work well for them

 

[Litwin]

I guess the Dutch are now on his shit list too.

Dutch can make the real bombs and rockets , the fatso can´t ...

 

[Litwin]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it , use google translate

Сталинскую индустриализацию на самом деле ковали американцы и немцы

without people like Koch who took money from hands of dying from Stalinist handmade hunger Ukrainians, and gave to the worst mass - killer in history Koba Dzhugashvili the western technology in return

 

[iceberg]

the western technologies broke Finally Cozy Bear neck. Will the reality star agree publicly that His friend Punia did it or not?

"
Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about Russia's interference in US-elections

Hackers from the Dutch intelligence service AIVD have provided the FBI with crucial information about Russian interference with the American elections. For years, AIVD had access to the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. That's what de Volkskrant and Nieuwsuur have uncovered in their investigation.
"
Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about Russia's interference in US-elections - Tech - Voor nieuws, achtergronden en columns

"AIVD spooks monitored a team of around 10 Cozy Bear hackers who worked from a university building near Red Square, according to the investigation.

The hackers’ attempts to infiltrate a classified U.S. State Department network in November 2016 prompted the AIVD to alert a U.S. National Security Agency “liaison” based in The Hague, who reportedly passed the information to American intelligence services.

The AIVD intelligence on the Democratic Party hack served as “grounds for the FBI to start an investigation into the influence of the Russian interference on the election,” according to the joint investigation."
Dutch Spies Exposed Russian Hackers in U.S. Election Meddling — Report

the literacy fail in your post makes this impossible to understand.

 

[iceberg]

I guess the Dutch are now on his shit list too.

Dutch can make the real bombs and rockets , the fatso can´t ...

last i checked no president makes the bombs. bias is showing making you a pom pom'er for your side, making all you say - irrelevant.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it , use google translate

Сталинскую индустриализацию на самом деле ковали американцы и немцы

without people like Koch who took money from hands of dying from Stalinist handmade hunger Ukrainians, and gave to the worst mass - killer in history Koba Dzhugashvili the western technology in return

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it

It simply isn't possible for the Koch brothers to have created Stalinism as "we" know it; however, it is possible for them to have done pretty much anything as you understand "it," whatever "it" happens to be. Stalinism is "the method of rule, or policies, of Joseph Stalin, Soviet Communist Party and state leader from 1929 until his death in 1953. Stalinism is associated with a regime of terror and totalitarian rule." Neither Koch brother had, by the end of Stalin's rule, reached the age of majority, and I can assure you that neither brother had any role in the conception or execution of Stalin's policies.

It is fair to say that the Koch brothers' father, Fred Koch, played a key role in building oil refineries that helped finance the USSR and the programs and policies Stalin implemented as leader of the USSR. Using hyperbolic illogic such as that implicit in your assertion that the "Kochs actually created Stalinism as we know it, one might also say that the Kochs/Stalinism ended the Holocaust because among the things partly paid for by the money Fred Koch's oil refinery revenue produced were the men and materiel the USSR used to defeat Germany in WWII.

Furthermore, it is presumptuous, thus irrational, to attribute to the Koch brothers "sins of the father." For instance, is it rational to attribute to a white person, on account of their having an ancestor who was a slave owner, the same or similar mindset regarding race as was held by their ancestor? Would one be able to credibly assert, for example, that Bryant Gumbel is a racist because his second great grandfather enlisted in the Confederate Army of New Orleans? Or that Suzanne Malveaux or other blacks who, like her have black ancestors who owned slaves, is racist because of those "sins of their forefathers?" Of course, the answer is "no."

Quite simply, it is absurd to ascribe to the Koch brothers the creation of Stalinism on account of their father having sought business profits by building oil refineries in the USSR. Moreover, given Fred and Charles Koch's own writings on the matter, such a notion is all the more absurd.

• Fred: A Businessman Looks at Communism
• Charles: The Science of Success: How Market-Based Management Built the World's Largest Private Company

Let me be clear: I am no defendere nor advocate of the Kochs. I am merely someone who has little to no tolerance for irrational lines of thought that one might air publicly and that come to my attention.

 

[g5000]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

Here are the pseudocons bragging how the leaks were helping Trump win:

WikiLeak Exposes Hillary’s Plot to Confiscate Americans’ Guns, This is TREASON!

She is done...

Wikileaks about to release the KRAKEN!-

Leak early, leak often: If WikiLeaks had obtained Clinton emails earlier, US voters could have chosen Sanders v Trump. So do it. Do it now.

ELECTION OVER! HILLARY’s ISIS EMAIL Just LEAKED & It’s WORSE THAN ANYONE COULD HAVE IMAGINED ... -

Here's another one bragging the leaks impacted the outcome of the election: New poll: 34 percent 'less likely' to vote for Clinton after new email revelations

Suck on it libs. Hillary is done for.

The Clintonites of the forum live in denial.

And how many are much more likely to vote for Trump as result? Many, many...

34% wont make a dent in the electorial vote count ... and those early voters?

yup, Trump is still fucked

34% won't make a dent in the electoral vote?

What planet do you live on?

Hillary is done. Stick a fork in her.

So you see, before they knew it was Russian meddling, the pseudocons were merrily bragging how that meddling was affecting the outcome of the election. "Hillary is done. Stick a fork in her."

Now that they know the Russians were behind it, they expect us all forget how THEY THEMSELVES said the meddling affected the outcome.

These dumb shits aren't clever by half.

 

[g5000]

Also take notice how not one pseudocon is condemning Russia's interference in our election.

Not. One.

Traitors.

 

[HappyJoy]

Also take notice how not one pseudocon is condemning Russia's interference in our election.

Not. One.

Traitors.

Come on, I'm sure one of them will prove you wrong, right?

 

[g5000]

Also take notice how not one pseudocon is condemning Russia's interference in our election.

Not. One.

Traitors.

Come on, I'm sure one of them will prove you wrong, right?

Good luck with that.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If Obama would have come out and said that the Dutch government caught Russia in the act, the Trump supporters would have gone absolutely APE SHIT saying that Obama was just trying to cheat the Republicans out of the election and it was all made up. It would have made ZERO difference.

You want us to believe Obama was more worried about Trump voters than national security?

Hahaha you're hysterical!

 

[Lewdog]

If Obama would have come out and said that the Dutch government caught Russia in the act, the Trump supporters would have gone absolutely APE SHIT saying that Obama was just trying to cheat the Republicans out of the election and it was all made up. It would have made ZERO difference.

You want us to believe Obama was more worried about Trump voters than national security?

Hahaha you're hysterical!

We KNOW Obama did do something about it behind the scenes... he just didn't come out and make it public until they had gathered more evidence.

Trump supporters still deny it happened even today with a huge pile of evidence, what in the hell makes you think they would have believed it back then?

 

[Litwin]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it , use google translate

Сталинскую индустриализацию на самом деле ковали американцы и немцы

without people like Koch who took money from hands of dying from Stalinist handmade hunger Ukrainians, and gave to the worst mass - killer in history Koba Dzhugashvili the western technology in return

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it

It simply isn't possible for the Koch brothers to have created Stalinism as "we" know it; however, it is possible for them to have done pretty much anything as you understand "it," whatever "it" happens to be. Stalinism is "the method of rule, or policies, of Joseph Stalin, Soviet Communist Party and state leader from 1929 until his death in 1953. Stalinism is associated with a regime of terror and totalitarian rule." Neither Koch brother had, by the end of Stalin's rule, reached the age of majority, and I can assure you that neither brother had any role in the conception or execution of Stalin's policies.

It is fair to say that the Koch brothers' father, Fred Koch, played a key role in building oil refineries that helped finance the USSR and the programs and policies Stalin implemented as leader of the USSR. Using hyperbolic illogic such as that implicit in your assertion that the "Kochs actually created Stalinism as we know it, one might also say that the Kochs/Stalinism ended the Holocaust because among the things partly paid for by the money Fred Koch's oil refinery revenue produced were the men and materiel the USSR used to defeat Germany in WWII.

Furthermore, it is presumptuous, thus irrational, to attribute to the Koch brothers "sins of the father." For instance, is it rational to attribute to a white person, on account of their having an ancestor who was a slave owner, the same or similar mindset regarding race as was held by their ancestor? Would one be able to credibly assert, for example, that Bryant Gumbel is a racist because his second great grandfather enlisted in the Confederate Army of New Orleans? Or that Suzanne Malveaux or other blacks who, like her have black ancestors who owned slaves, is racist because of those "sins of their forefathers?" Of course, the answer is "no."

Quite simply, it is absurd to ascribe to the Koch brothers the creation of Stalinism on account of their father having sought business profits by building oil refineries in the USSR. Moreover, given Fred and Charles Koch's own writings on the matter, such a notion is all the more absurd.

• Fred: A Businessman Looks at Communism
• Charles: The Science of Success: How Market-Based Management Built the World's Largest Private Company

Let me be clear: I am no defendere nor advocate of the Kochs. I am merely someone who has little to no tolerance for irrational lines of thought that one might air publicly and that come to my attention.

ITS a fact that Kochs have created soviet (Stalinist) industries, what we know under the name soviet industrial design , its all American . all sold to Koba by Koch and people like Koch. do your know where koba found money to pay to koch family?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Putin pushed me in the voting booth and made me vote for Trump, then we drank wodka and rode horses "bareback" and stuff...

look you believe that Soros , rules the world, no one except Pynia and Trump wants your vote

People here who are given to conspiracy theories talk ad nauseum about Soros. I bet if this were a predominantly Democratic forum, they'd be talking about the Koch brothers. I think it's ridiculous to talk about or mention any of them as none of them holds elected office.

The fact of the matter is that the three of them are highly active in politics for the same reasons most folks are: money. Anyone who thinks the country's remaining 537 billionaires are every bit as politically active as are Soros and the Kochs and for the same reason: having billions of dollars, a percentage point difference in a tax rate, or a word or two in a regulation can mean hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. At that level, in terms of personal wealth, the game is less about making more money than it is about not losing money and not not having "less discretion than before" over the money one has. Indeed, one need not even be "at that level" (or near it) for it to mostly be about that.

As of 2015: Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America’s High-Profile Political Donors Compare

• While the Kochs use their riches to advance libertarian causes, George Soros is their progressive counterpart.
  
• Charles and David Koch head Koch Industries, the nation’s second-largest private company, with an estimated annual revenue of $115 billion. The Koch brothers are tied at number 7 on the Forbes top billionaires list with $41.5 billion each.
  
• George Soros is the chairman of Soros Fund Management, a hedge fund with a value of roughly $13.4 billion. He sits at number 25 on the Forbes list with $24 billion.
  
• The Koch network includes:
  • The Cato Institute
  • Freedom Partners
  • Americans for Prosperity
  • The Reason Foundation
  • The American Legislative Exchange Council
  • The Libre Initiative Trust.
• The Soros network includes:
  • The Open Society Institute
  • The Center for American Progress
  • The Democracy Alliance
  • The Institute for New Economic Thinking.

As of 2010, when it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros’ hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

​

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it , use google translate

Сталинскую индустриализацию на самом деле ковали американцы и немцы

without people like Koch who took money from hands of dying from Stalinist handmade hunger Ukrainians, and gave to the worst mass - killer in history Koba Dzhugashvili the western technology in return

Kochs actually created stalinism as we know it

It simply isn't possible for the Koch brothers to have created Stalinism as "we" know it; however, it is possible for them to have done pretty much anything as you understand "it," whatever "it" happens to be. Stalinism is "the method of rule, or policies, of Joseph Stalin, Soviet Communist Party and state leader from 1929 until his death in 1953. Stalinism is associated with a regime of terror and totalitarian rule." Neither Koch brother had, by the end of Stalin's rule, reached the age of majority, and I can assure you that neither brother had any role in the conception or execution of Stalin's policies.

It is fair to say that the Koch brothers' father, Fred Koch, played a key role in building oil refineries that helped finance the USSR and the programs and policies Stalin implemented as leader of the USSR. Using hyperbolic illogic such as that implicit in your assertion that the "Kochs actually created Stalinism as we know it, one might also say that the Kochs/Stalinism ended the Holocaust because among the things partly paid for by the money Fred Koch's oil refinery revenue produced were the men and materiel the USSR used to defeat Germany in WWII.

Furthermore, it is presumptuous, thus irrational, to attribute to the Koch brothers "sins of the father." For instance, is it rational to attribute to a white person, on account of their having an ancestor who was a slave owner, the same or similar mindset regarding race as was held by their ancestor? Would one be able to credibly assert, for example, that Bryant Gumbel is a racist because his second great grandfather enlisted in the Confederate Army of New Orleans? Or that Suzanne Malveaux or other blacks who, like her have black ancestors who owned slaves, is racist because of those "sins of their forefathers?" Of course, the answer is "no."

Quite simply, it is absurd to ascribe to the Koch brothers the creation of Stalinism on account of their father having sought business profits by building oil refineries in the USSR. Moreover, given Fred and Charles Koch's own writings on the matter, such a notion is all the more absurd.

• Fred: A Businessman Looks at Communism
• Charles: The Science of Success: How Market-Based Management Built the World's Largest Private Company

Let me be clear: I am no defendere nor advocate of the Kochs. I am merely someone who has little to no tolerance for irrational lines of thought that one might air publicly and that come to my attention.

ITS a fact that Kochs have created soviet (Stalinist) industries, what we know under the name soviet industrial design , its all American . all sold to Koba by Koch and people like Koch. do your know where koba found money to pay to koch family?

ITS a fact that Kochs have created soviet (Stalinist) industries

ITS a fact that Kochs have created soviet (Stalinist) industries

Is it? Perhaps you'd care to provide some highly credible analysis (your own or peer reviewed content of others) that shows that to be true. Other perhaps than the oil refining industry, what industries might they be? Please be sure to show multiple industry causation/creation and not merely participation.