Due Process??

[Zincwarrior]

Due process, for what? Telling an illegal immigrant they are not welcome and escorting them out of the country is not in any way, shape, or form worthy of due process.

If they are not charged with anything, they should be able to be escorted out without any type of hearing

You might consider linking to something or forming a full statement in your initial post.

To the topic, everyone alive and standing on US territory has the right to due process. That DP may be brief and rudimentary, but every man, woman, child, and person who owns cats is entitled to that. Its a basic, fundamental precept of our republic. We are citizens, NOT subjects.

 

[Lesh]

Equating the innocent with hardened criminals is not a good look.

Innocents… like Garcia and the kid with the soccer tattoo…

 

[BackAgain]

We don’t give legal immigrants the paperwork so they don’t have to keep it handy. You keep your ID on you in case you get pulled over and need it right?

A driver’s license. Not exactly proof of my citizenship. And if I’m not driving, I’m not required to carry any “papers.”

These are simple cases, if you’re here and can’t prove you’re here legally you get deported.

Repeating yourself to any a convincing form of argumentation. And, in this case, you’re still mistaken.

 

[80zephyr]

You might consider linking to something or forming a full statement in your initial post.

To the topic, everyone alive and standing on US territory has the right to due process. That DP may be brief and rudimentary, but every man, woman, child, and person who owns cats is entitled to that. Its a basic, fundamental precept of our republic. We are citizens, NOT subjects.

There was no link. This is my original thought. I don't need to expound on it any further. I think its pretty clear.

If you are not charged with a crime, and you are simply expelled, there is no need for due process.

 

[80zephyr]

Innocents… like Garcia and the kid with the soccer tattoo…

Mistakes can be made. But I think you know what I meant.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I have some reservations about the absence of due process. What if the ICE guys or whoever grabs the wrong guy? What if the information on the guy is incorrect, what if he's a solid guy with a job and a family, should we treat him the same as a gangbanger? Or what if the person is actually here legally or in the process of being legalized? I'm all for removing the people that don't deserve to stay here, lawbreakers and troublemakers should go 1st. These guys probably already have a rap sheet of somethings they've done after they got here. I just want to make sure the guy we kick out is the right guy.

If they know he is an illegal, that is all they need. They should deport them and then figure out whether to send him to prison. GTMO would be a good place for the hearing. I'll even volunteer to send Elon Musk down there as a judge.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Reality? You wanna talk about reality? Do you really think Trump or any other president would resort to using the military, FBI, etc, to ignore SCOTUS rulings and do as he pleases? That is about as far from ever being a reality as I can imagine in this country.

For sure the SCOTUS has no enforcement authority. But you know what, they don't need it cuz we are a nation of laws and ultimately they decide what the law says. What are you implying, that Trump would destroy our gov't and declare himself dictator and then make up his own laws? You think that could be a reality? Make shit up and ignore the Courts when they rule against him?

Andrew Jackson did exactly that regarding removal of the Indian Nations in the south. The Trail of Tears Memorial is just north of here.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Which is why it so important to elect someone who can be trusted.

Welp, we sure fucked that up.

 

[Missourian]

Due process, for what? Telling an illegal immigrant they are not welcome and escorting them out of the country is not in any way, shape, or form worthy of due process.

If they are not charged with anything, they should be able to be escorted out without any type of hearing.

The same "due process" that a trespasser gets. The rightful owner says 'he has to go' and the perpetrator is escorted off the property.

In this case, "the property" is the entirety of the United States.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

A driver’s license. Not exactly proof of my citizenship. And if I’m not driving, I’m not required to carry any “papers.”

Repeating yourself to any a convincing form of argumentation. And, in this case, you’re still mistaken.

It used to be proof, before democrats decided to give licenses to illegals for whatever reason.

It’s worth repeating the obvious if the other person just doesn’t get it.

They aren’t citizens, provide the proper papers or you’re getting deported.

 

[BackAgain]

It used to be proof, before democrats decided to give licenses to illegals for whatever reason.

It’s worth repeating the obvious if the other person just doesn’t get it.

They aren’t citizens, provide the proper papers or you’re getting deported.

Still not the way it works.

 

[Lesh]

Mistakes can be made. But I think you know what I meant.

Mistakes?

Would you shrug and just say… oh well it was a mistake .. if it was you that was sent to a prison in El Salvador?

 

[80zephyr]

Mistakes?

Would you shrug and just say… oh well it was a mistake .. if it was you that was sent to a prison in El Salvador?

Of course I wouldn't. But we both know that mistakes will always be made withe every human endeavor. If we need to make sure that what we do is mistake free, we would never do anything.

 

[Lesh]

Of course I wouldn't. But we both know that mistakes will always be made withe every human endeavor. If we need to make sure that what we do is mistake free, we would never do anything.

How would you feel if that mistake were made with your freedom or your child’s freedom

 

[MagicMike]

Due process, for what? Telling an illegal immigrant they are not welcome and escorting them out of the country is not in any way, shape, or form worthy of due process.

Actually The U.S. Declaration of Independence says otherwise. You should really try to familiarize yourself with that document. It says that ALL MEN (people) are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.
The whole concept of divine rights dates back to The Magna Carta (1215), you might want to look that one up too. It put forth the idea that basic human rights are something you are born with just by virtue of being a human being, and since these rights come from "God" no king, emperor, dictator, government, or rogue U.S. President can ever take them away.
So we have things like habeus corpus and due process protecting these rights. They apply to EVERYBODY equally, "legal" or "illegal."

If they are not charged with anything, they should be able to be escorted out without any type of hearing.

Not if there is a court order in place prohibiting their removal on humanitarian or any other grounds.

Besides, Trump is already weakening in his anti-immigration stance.
Being the dimwit that he is he hasn't understood it all along when people have tried to explain to him that our economy NEEDS cheap immigrant labor to keep it afloat.
But now he is finally starting to understand so he finally stated in his cabinent meeting yesterday that his adminustration is now willing to work with employers to assist these migrants in obtaining legal work permits so they can remain here and earn a living.
That's one win for human rights....and another capitulation (loss/softening of stance) for the convicted felon and his MAGAt base.

Farm industry groups have warned that deporting large numbers of agricultural workers would grind the food system to a halt. In addition to farming, many workers without legal status are also employed in the meat and dairy industries.
"We're going to work with farmers that, if they have strong recommendations for their farms, for certain people, that we're going to let them stay in for a while and work with the farmers and then come back and go through a process, a legal process. We have to take care of our farmers and hotels and various places where they need the people," Trump said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-suggests-farmers-could-petition-keep-workers-without-legal-status-2025-04-10/

 

[80zephyr]

How would you feel if that mistake were made with your freedom or your child’s freedom

Are you listening? Would you ever put a convicted person in prison because you fear you made a mistake?

 

[80zephyr]

Actually The U.S. Declaration of Independence says otherwise. You should really try to familiarize yourself with that document. It says that ALL MEN (people) are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.
The whole concept of divine rights dates back to The Magna Carta (1215), you might want to look that one up too. It put forth the idea that basic human rights are something you are born with just by virtue of being a human being, and since these rights come from "God" no king, emperor, dictator, government, or rogue U.S. President can ever take them away.
So we have things like habeus corpus and due process protecting these rights. They apply to EVERYBODY equally, "legal" or "illegal."

Not if there is a court order in place prohibiting their removal on humanitarian or any other grounds.

Besides, Trump is already weakening in his anti-immigration stance.
Being the dimwit that he is he hasn't understood it all along when people have tried to explain to him that our economy NEEDS cheap immigrant labor to keep it afloat.
But now he is finally starting to understand so he finally stated in his cabinent meeting yesterday that his adminustration is now willing to work with employers to assist these migrants in obtaining legal work permits so they can remain here and earn a living.
That's one win for human rights....and another capitulation (loss/softening of stance) for the convicted felon and his MAGAt base.

Farm industry groups have warned that deporting large numbers of agricultural workers would grind the food system to a halt. In addition to farming, many workers without legal status are also employed in the meat and dairy industries.
"We're going to work with farmers that, if they have strong recommendations for their farms, for certain people, that we're going to let them stay in for a while and work with the farmers and then come back and go through a process, a legal process. We have to take care of our farmers and hotels and various places where they need the people," Trump said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-suggests-farmers-could-petition-keep-workers-without-legal-status-2025-04-10/

There is no due process if no crime is committed.

 

[task0778]

Are you listening? Would you ever put a convicted person in prison because you fear you made a mistake?

Our system of justice is predicated on the idea that it's better for a guilty person to go free than an innocent man getting convicted of something he/she didn't do. That is the reason why we have due process, to do the best we can to make sure that mistakes aren't made or at least eliminated as much as possible. And i believe that holds true for illegals too.

 

[80zephyr]

Our system of justice is predicated on the idea that it's better for a guilty person to go free than an innocent man getting convicted of something he/she didn't do. That is the reason why we have due process, to do the best we can to make sure that mistakes aren't made or at least eliminated as much as possible. And i believe that holds true for illegals too.

We are not imprisoning them. We are simply sending them home. A big difference.

 

[MagicMike]

There is no due process if no crime is committed.

And if no crime is committed there is no need to force deportation.
Right?

We are not imprisoning them. We are simply sending them home. A big difference.

Trump is already backing off of his mass deportation rhetoric anyway.
It won't be long before the bottom has dropped out of EVERY promise he made to his MAGAt cult to get their votes.
They probably won't even notice though.


April 10 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump suggested on Thursday that farmers will be able to petition the federal government to retain some farmworkers in the U.S. illegally, provided the workers leave the country and return with legal status.
Trump's comments during his Cabinet meeting are, though vague, the most detail the administration has provided on the fate of the nation's farmworkers without legal status - who make up half the farm sector's workforce - under his plan for mass deportations.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-suggests-farmers-could-petition-keep-workers-without-legal-status-2025-04-10/