Drive by shooting in England just days after mass public shooting in England. 5 shooters on the scene of barbecue.

[BULLDOG]

Shithead...easily...when the guy lies on the background check form at the gun store, he is committing a crime......

What part of the fact that normal people selling their private property are not where criminals get their illegal guns do you not understand?


You want gun registration, to get gun registration you need to get universal background checks.......that is your goal....so you lie to hide what you actually want.

No, you idiot gun nut. If he is free to buy a gun, he can legally buy a gun. The crime doesn't happen until he gives it to someone he knows is not allowed to have a gun. Of course, he can always say "I didn't know", and walk away scott free. Unless you have a recording of them planning the deal, how are you going to prove different? Of course, a required background check before the crook gets the gun would solve a lot of that. A background check that you are against. You are just wrong, no matter how much you want your excuse to work. You should be ashamed.

 

[2aguy]

No, you idiot gun nut. If he is free to buy a gun, he can legally buy a gun. The crime doesn't happen until he gives it to someone he knows is not allowed to have a gun. Of course, he can always say "I didn't know", and walk away scott free. Unless you have a recording of them planning the deal, how are you going to prove different? Of course, a required background check before the crook gets the gun would solve a lot of that. A background check that you are against. You are just wrong, no matter how much you want your excuse to work. You should be ashamed.

Wrong. You fill out a form at a gun store, a legal form. You state you are buying the gun for yourself, not for someone else.....by lying on the form you are committing a felony.

And as I keep stating...you don't care about criminals getting guns, because we already have laws that allow us to arrest criminals......you guys keep letting them out after we catch them...that is the problem......

You want gun registration. You want it so bad you will lie, cheat and steal to get it...because you understand that if you one day get the power to confiscate guns ..... you need to know who has them, or they will be hidden ....and you can't stand that thought.

Background checks are just the lie you need to get registration, your true goal.

 

[2aguy]

No, you idiot gun nut. If he is free to buy a gun, he can legally buy a gun. The crime doesn't happen until he gives it to someone he knows is not allowed to have a gun. Of course, he can always say "I didn't know", and walk away scott free. Unless you have a recording of them planning the deal, how are you going to prove different? Of course, a required background check before the crook gets the gun would solve a lot of that. A background check that you are against. You are just wrong, no matter how much you want your excuse to work. You should be ashamed.

Background checks are a lie..........you don't believe in them, but you do know that if you get them, you can then demand gun registration....

Do Universal Background Checks Prevent Gun Violence?

But other research has found different outcomes. The state of California has had a comprehensive background check law on the books for 10 years. Researchers at UC Davis School of Medicine have studied gun violence in CA during that period and found there was no change in the number of gun homicides or gun suicides. The researchers use the term “comprehensive background check” instead of universal background check. And another study by the same authors found that the repeal of comprehensive background check laws in Tennessee and Indiana had no effect on gun homicides or suicide rates in either state.
Johns Hopkins School of Public Health looked at comprehensive background check laws in large, urban counties in the U.S. and found they were actually associated with an increase in firearm homicides in those counties. That study found “no benefit” of a CBC law without an accompanying permit-to-purchase law.
-------
Colorado: Universal Background Checks, 'High Capacity' Mag Ban, and 10 Officers Shot in Five Weeks

Colorado has universal background checks, a “high capacity” magazine ban, and 10 officers shot in five weeks, three fatally.
The Democrats persuaded the state that it would not be this way when they passed their California-style gun controls in the wake of the attack on Sandy Hook Elementary. Rank and file lawmakers, and Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) too, jumped on gun control as a way of preventing violence in Colorado yet the state has experienced violence against officers and high profile attacks on the public since gun control was implemented.

On October 31, 2015, Noah Harpman opened fire on the streets of Colorado Springs, killing three innocents before he was killed by police. Moreover, Harpman complied with all gun controls in acquiring the firearms he possessed at the time of the attack.

Less than a month later, on November 27, 2015, Robert L. Dear opened fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing two civilians and a police officer before being apprehended by police.


During the last five weeks alone 10 officers have been shot in Colorado. The Denver Postreports that El Paso County Deputy Micah Flick was shot and killed on February 5, Adams County Deputy Heath Gumm was shot and killed on January 24, and Douglas County Deputy Zack Parrish was killed on December 31, 2017.

Colorado has universal background checks, which Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) described as the gun control “North Star” for Democrats. They also have a “high capacity” magazine ban, regulations on how long a gun can be loaned to a friend before a another background check must required, and other controls.

And so far, these gun controls have simply correlated with high profile shootings and a war on police.

 

[2aguy]

No, you idiot gun nut. If he is free to buy a gun, he can legally buy a gun. The crime doesn't happen until he gives it to someone he knows is not allowed to have a gun. Of course, he can always say "I didn't know", and walk away scott free. Unless you have a recording of them planning the deal, how are you going to prove different? Of course, a required background check before the crook gets the gun would solve a lot of that. A background check that you are against. You are just wrong, no matter how much you want your excuse to work. You should be ashamed.

A side benefit to gun background checks for gun grabbers....

Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.
If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The minuscule exemption for self-defense does not cover stalking victims. None of the exemptions cover farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, or storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws.


And this......they love this...

The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by
regulation.
-----
The narrowness of the self-defense exemption endangers domestic violence victims. For example, a former domestic partner threatens a woman and her children. An attack might come in the next hour, or the next month, or never. The victim and her children cannot know. Because the attack is uncertain—and is certainly not "immediate"—the woman cannot borrow a handgun from a neighbor for her defense. Many domestic violence victims do not have several hundred spare dollars so that they can buy their own gun. Sometimes, threats are manifested at night, when gun stores are not open.
-------

HR8 requires almost all firearms sales and loans to be conducted by a federally-licensed dealer. Because federal law prohibits licensed dealers from transferring handguns to persons under 21 years, HR8 prevents young adults from acquiring handguns. This is a clever way to enact a handgun ban indirectly.

HR8 would prohibit a 20-year-old woman who lives on her own from acquiring a handgun for self-defense in her home, such as by buying it from a relative or borrowing it from a friend.
-----

Exorbitant fees may be imposed by regulation

"(3)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this sub-section with regulations."

"(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (1)."

Regulators may set a minimum fee, but not "a cap on a fee." The Attorney General is allowed to require that every gun store charge a fee of $30, $50, $150, or more. Even a $20 fee can be a hard burden to a poor person.

------
Family members

You can make a "a loan or bona fide gift" to some family members. In-laws and cousins are excluded.

The family exemption vanishes if one family member pays the other in any way. If a brother trades an extra shotgun to his sister in exchange for her extra television, both of them have to go to a gun store. Their exchange will have all the fees and paperwork as if she were buying a gun from the store.

 

[Mac-7]

I thought guns were forbidden in dreary old England?

lets ask one of our limey lib interlopers to ‘splain it for is

 

[2aguy]

No, you idiot gun nut. If he is free to buy a gun, he can legally buy a gun. The crime doesn't happen until he gives it to someone he knows is not allowed to have a gun. Of course, he can always say "I didn't know", and walk away scott free. Unless you have a recording of them planning the deal, how are you going to prove different? Of course, a required background check before the crook gets the gun would solve a lot of that. A background check that you are against. You are just wrong, no matter how much you want your excuse to work. You should be ashamed.

And more.....you don't care about criminals with guns...otherwise you wouldn't keep releasing the actual gun criminals from jail and prison over and over again...

What you really want, along with gun registration?

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.

For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

 

[BULLDOG]

Wrong. You fill out a form at a gun store, a legal form. You state you are buying the gun for yourself, not for someone else.....by lying on the form you are committing a felony.

And as I keep stating...you don't care about criminals getting guns, because we already have laws that allow us to arrest criminals......you guys keep letting them out after we catch them...that is the problem......

You want gun registration. You want it so bad you will lie, cheat and steal to get it...because you understand that if you one day get the power to confiscate guns ..... you need to know who has them, or they will be hidden ....and you can't stand that thought.

Background checks are just the lie you need to get registration, your true goal.

You are getting more stupid by the day. He is buying the gun for himself, dumb ass. No crime is committe until the gun is actually given to the crook. Even if he does eventually give the gun to a crook, he can still say at that time, he intended to keep it. It's up to the courts to determine what his plans were, and without recordings of the buyer and seller discussing it, how can anything be proven either way. Still, the only difference between a straw buyer and an individual seller is the crook was known before the sale. With an individual seller the crook isn't even known after the sale. There is no obligation to even ask his name.

You've made it clear that you don't care about criminals getting guns. You want to make sure they get all they want you disgusting piece of crap.

Quit whining about registration. That has nothing to do with your efforts to arm more crooks.

 

[BULLDOG]

Background checks are a lie..........you don't believe in them, but you do know that if you get them, you can then demand gun registration....

Now you're just mumbeling shit.

 

[BULLDOG]

And more.....you don't care about criminals with guns...otherwise you wouldn't keep releasing the actual gun criminals from jail and prison over and over again...

What you really want, along with gun registration?

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.

For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

Oh shut up. You already proved you are an idiot. Massive cut and paste crap won't make that go away.

 

[Vagabond63]

They didn't have many before they banned and confiscated guns, and now, after they banned and confiscated guns, they have the same.....

Banning guns doesn't reduce gun crime......the U.S. and Britain show us this.

Well, if you look at recorded murders in the UK from all types, the number has halved from 2002 to 2015. Clearly not having handguns freely reaadily available has helped, but unfortunately we don't record gun crime as a seperate offence here.

 

[2aguy]

Well, if you look at recorded murders in the UK from all types, the number has halved from 2002 to 2015. Clearly not having handguns freely reaadily available has helped, but unfortunately we don't record gun crime as a seperate offence here.

Moron.......criminals in Britain have guns.......the British police state they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns onto the island.........what you don't have is criminals who commit murder.....you didn't have a high number of murders before they had guns, you don't have that now...but again, that is changing....your criminal gangs are controlled by 3rd world immigrants, who don't care about your culture or values....

When they need to kill they will. They also have all the guns they want to do it with....as they are now shooting up barbecues and shooting people in the streets during daylight hours.

 

[Vagabond63]

....criminals in Britain have guns.......the British police state they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns onto the island...

*sigh* Criminals in the UK have always had guns, throughout our history, since guns were invented. A decade of Right wing Conservative governments have cut police numbers and resources, that said, it's not the police's job to prevent gun smuggling, that's a matter for HM Customs and Excise.

you didn't have a high number of murders before they had guns, you don't have that now...

Well as it happens our murder rate has dropped by 50% from the 2002 to 2015, from 1047 to 534, so you are still full of BS.

 

[Vagabond63]

your criminal gangs are controlled by 3rd world immigrants, who don't care about your culture or values....

Well 78% are from the native born Black community, you just cherry pick from sensationalist right wing media articles, as suits your agenda.

 

[ESay]

Well 78% are from the native born Black community, you just cherry pick from sensationalist right wing media articles, as suits your agenda.

What does this figure mean? That 78% of all gang members are people from the Black British community?

 

[2aguy]

Well 78% are from the native born Black community, you just cherry pick from sensationalist right wing media articles, as suits your agenda.

Link.......

Middle Eastern gangs and gangs from other 3rd world countries are causing your growing crime rates...

 

[2aguy]

What does this figure mean? That 78% of all gang members are people from the Black British community?

It is called a dodge...since I do not think black individuals came over from Ireland....

 

[ESay]

It is called a dodge...since I do not think black individuals came over from Ireland....

Well, that doesn't matter where they came from. If they are British citizens they will stay there as well as their kids will. And the main question how to integrate them into the society.

 

[BULLDOG]

Link.......

Middle Eastern gangs and gangs from other 3rd world countries are causing your growing crime rates...

But you're so determined that those people be allowed to buy all the guns they want here.

 

[2aguy]

But you're so determined that those people be allowed to buy all the guns they want here.

Are you really this stupid? Childish, yes....but are you this stupid?

Now....answer these questions...

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

You are given the ability to travel in time......knowing this woman is about to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered.....do you go back in time and take that gun away from her before the rape?

 

[BULLDOG]

Are you really this stupid? Childish, yes....but are you this stupid?

Now....answer these questions...

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

You are given the ability to travel in time......knowing this woman is about to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered.....do you go back in time and take that gun away from her before the rape?

Stupid questions unrelated to anything being discussed. You gun nuts sure have problems staying on subject.