Donald Rumsfeld and "unknown unknowns"

[Bill Angel]

Donald Rumsfeld's assertion about "unknown unknowns" sounds vacuous to me, and concern about such an issue could cause a military commander to "freeze up" and be unable to make good decisions about how a war should be fought, either strategically or tactically.

 

[Camp]

Rumsfield refused to take responsibility for his horrible failures. One of those failures was that he ignored American military doctrine to equip troops with the best training, equipment and weapons modern science, technology and American ingenuity available before committing troops to warfare. He sent troops into battle in Iraq with the training, weapons and equipment needed to defeat the Irag military, but not the training, weapons and equipment to fight a war of occupation. Having been caught making this drastic miscalculation and mistake he made up this stupid quote instead of admitting his blunder and submitting his resignation.

 

[Bill Angel]

... He sent troops into battle in Iraq with the training, weapons and equipment needed to defeat the Irag military, but not the training, weapons and equipment to fight a war of occupation. Having been caught making this drastic miscalculation and mistake he made up this stupid quote instead of admitting his blunder and submitting his resignation.

I would not argue with your assessment of the mistakes that were made, but Rumsfeld made the remark in February of 2002. The invasion of Iraq did not occur until March of 2003.

 

[Camp]

The mistake will cost me the price of his memior KNOWN AND UNKNOWN. I will be looking for a used or discounted copy.

 

[whitehall]

Rumsfield refused to take responsibility for his horrible failures. One of those failures was that he ignored American military doctrine to equip troops with the best training, equipment and weapons modern science, technology and American ingenuity available before committing troops to warfare. He sent troops into battle in Iraq with the training, weapons and equipment needed to defeat the Irag military, but not the training, weapons and equipment to fight a war of occupation. Having been caught making this drastic miscalculation and mistake he made up this stupid quote instead of admitting his blunder and submitting his resignation.

A "war of occupation"? Under Rumsfeld's leadership Americans went farther, faster and took less casualties than any other modern conflict. If you need to talk about "military blunders you need to consider historic perspective. It was this month in history that Marines lost 7,000 in a battle over a stinking island that didn't have to happen. Ike's invasion of an impregnable fortress cost the lives of about 50,000 Troops by the time US forces broke out of Normandy. Truman's timid lack of leadership cost Americans 50,000 in the three years of Korea.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I'm pretty sure rummy didn't know that he didn't know about a whole bunch of topics

 

[Dante]

wow! so much disinformation on this. Why?

and Rumsfeld:::::::::::::::

Defense: Rumsfeld's Lonely, Losing Battle
By Frank Pellegrini Thursday, Aug. 09, 2001

Read more: Defense: Rumsfeld's Lonely, Losing Battle - TIME Defense: Rumsfeld's Lonely, Losing Battle - TIME

 

[whitehall]

WTF is the "war of occupation"? We fought WW2 to liberate Europe and the Russians took over and murdered scores of people who were American allies. We didn't have to worry about a "war of occupation" in Korea because Harry Truman managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. LBJ never had a strategy for a "war of occupation" because he set up the rules so that Americans could win every battle in Vietnam and still lose the freaking war. And you want to pick on Rumsfeld?

 

[SmedlyButler]

Whitewash;
"A "war of occupation"? Under Rumsfeld's leadership Americans went farther, faster and took less casualties than any other modern conflict".


Rumsfeld, 2/7/03: “It (Iraqi War) could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”

What actually happened;

Cost: Over 2 Trillion Dollars

Americans Killed: 4,500+/-

Amercan Wounded: 32,000+/-

Iraqi Civilian Deaths: 120,000+/-

More inspired Rummy-speak;

"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."

"We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." –on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."

"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things." –on looting in Iraq after the U.S. invasion, adding "stuff happens"

"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

"[Osama Bin Laden is] either alive and well or alive and not too well or not alive."

"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." -asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress

"I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."

"Needless to say, the President is correct. Whatever it was he said."

 

[Dante]

there is pre 911 and post 911 Rumsfeld.

life is not as simple as most imbeciles on the internet

 

[whitehall]

Whitewash;
"A "war of occupation"? Under Rumsfeld's leadership Americans went farther, faster and took less casualties than any other modern conflict".


Rumsfeld, 2/7/03: “It (Iraqi War) could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”

What actually happened;

Cost: Over 2 Trillion Dollars

Americans Killed: 4,500+/-

Amercan Wounded: 32,000+/-

Iraqi Civilian Deaths: 120,000+/-

More inspired Rummy-speak;

"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."

"We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." –on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."

"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things." –on looting in Iraq after the U.S. invasion, adding "stuff happens"

"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

"[Osama Bin Laden is] either alive and well or alive and not too well or not alive."

"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." -asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress

"I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."

"Needless to say, the President is correct. Whatever it was he said."

I dare say that even Smedley Butler on his most sober day would not compare the tragic deaths of 120,000 Americans in Wilson's war to the liberation of Iraq in "Rumsfeld's" war. Are neo-lefties going to complain about the freaking cost to taxpayers? Hussein's cash for clunkers cost more. About 38% of democrats approved of Rumsfeld's war. How many representatives approved of Truman's war in Korea? The short answer is freaking none.

 

[SmedlyButler]

But "Liberation of Iraq"? That's just silly.