Does the creation of space and time qualify as a miracle?

[ding]

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

There are no interviews from people who were at the beginning.

You would ignore what a world renowned physicist has to say on the subject.

You missed the word theory...…………………

I have a theory that you are mentally not more then 12 years old, no matter how many calendar years you have

You are also a follower, you do not think on your own. You will never be at the helm, of anything

Did you listen to Vilinken's interview?

Did you hear the language he used?

I wonder if you did, actually. Vilenkin says that the idea of a spontaneously created universe suggests that the laws which govern its creation existed prior. He certainly does not state it as any sort of indisputable fact, as you have done in this thread. Do you not believe Vilenkin?

In a different interview and a Discover article he does and I'm pretty sure he did it in the one you watched too.

Did you see my last post from NASA which says inflation is a period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual Big Bang expansion?

 

[Montrovant]

Well, some further reading shows that the timing is often presented in a contradictory fashion; some places show inflation as immediately after the Big Bang, some immediately prior. In neither case, however, do I see anything indicating that inflation shows matter and energy being created. From my reading of the concept, it is about the extremely rapid expansion of the universe either immediately after or immediately before the BB, not about how the energy that was expanding came into being. I could well be missing things, however; do you have any links I might go to where it explains how inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe?

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

 

[ding]

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

 

[Rosy]

The Inflation Theory, developed by Alan Guth, Andrei Linde, Paul Steinhardt, and Andy Albrecht, offers solutions to these problems and several other open questions in cosmology. It proposes a period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual Big Bang expansion, during which time the energy density of the universe was dominated by a cosmological constant-type of vacuum energy that later decayed to produce the matter and radiation that fill the universe today.

WMAP Inflation Theory

Theory is not reality. A theory is a way to explain what you have no idea of. There is a concept here that you can not grasp, see a doctor or at least try the Natrol DHEA

Natrol DHEA at Bodybuilding.com: Best Prices for DHEA

50mg twice per day morning and mid afternoon.

 

[ding]

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

“...Yet the explanation still leaves a huge mystery unaddressed. Although a universe, in Vilenkin’s scheme, can come from nothing in the sense of there being no space, time or matter, something is in place beforehand — namely the laws of physics....”

What Came Before the Big Bang? | DiscoverMagazine.com

Which ironically was a link you provided.

 

[Rosy]

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

But the big bang if it happened had to have a precursor set of rules to happen. Or did the rules come out of nothing as well? You actually want to claim that everything came from nothing and call it science

 

[Montrovant]

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

 

[Montrovant]

Nothing in that discussion indicates that cosmic inflation describes the creation of the energy of the universe, at least not that I could tell.

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

“...Yet the explanation still leaves a huge mystery unaddressed. Although a universe, in Vilenkin’s scheme, can come from nothing in the sense of there being no space, time or matter, something is in place beforehand — namely the laws of physics....”

What Came Before the Big Bang? | DiscoverMagazine.com

Which ironically was a link you provided.

There is no irony. Nothing there says that inflation describes how the energy of the universe came to be. It describes how that energy expanded rapidly at the beginning of the universe.

 

[ding]

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

No, you have that totally wrong. Inflation is how matter and energy got into the universe. Can you show me where anyone says otherwise than you?

Here's the interview where Vilenkin said we started with the laws of physics. Starting at 4:57 they begin that part of the discussion.

 

[Rosy]

Click on Vilenkin's interview.

Did our Universe have a Beginning? | Closer to Truth

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

There are people saying that everything was created in the big bang, which means prior to the big bang there was no time, no space, no matter of anykind. This is not science, it is a desperate attempt from academia to kill God, because God is a far more plausible answer for many things, certainly the complexity of DNA

 

[Likkmee]

Does the creation of space and time qualify as a miracle?

Approximately 14 billion years ago all of the matter and energy in the universe popped into existence out of nothing and occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

A "miracle" only within a race of animals who cry when a movie star drops dead. To a real society of intelligent beings, simpy a project of sorts. Your great grandma would have called tap-a-talk a "miracle".

 

[ding]

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

There are people saying that everything was created in the big bang, which means prior to the big bang there was no time, no space, no matter of anykind. This is not science, it is a desperate attempt from academia to kill God, because God is a far more plausible answer for many things, certainly the complexity of DNA

I think the problem is that you are confusing the big bang singularity with the beginning of space and time. The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That's just a mathematical thing. Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing. So logically that occurred before the so called big bang singularity.

I think of the big bang as the beginning of the expansion and cooling. Inflation is the build up of energy and matter before the expansion and cooling of the universe.

 

[Montrovant]

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

No, you have that totally wrong. Inflation is how matter and energy got into the universe. Can you show me where anyone says otherwise than you?

Here's the interview where Vilenkin said we started with the laws of physics. Starting at 4:57 they begin that part of the discussion.

It's already been brought up, but sure.

"The discovery, if confirmed, will also lend support to the inflation model in cosmology – the hypothesis that the universe underwent a brief period of exponential expansion immediately after the big bang"
What is cosmic inflation?| Explore | physics.org

"According to the theory of inflation, the early Universe expanded exponentially fast for a fraction of a second after the Big Bang."
Centre for Theoretical Cosmology: The Origins of the Universe: Inflation Introduction

"Cosmic inflation is the idea that the very early universe went through a period of accelerated, exponential expansion during the first 10-35 of a second before settling down to the more sedate rate of expansion we are still experiencing, so that all of the observable universe originated in a small (indeed, microscopic) causally-connected region."
Cosmic Inflation - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

"Inflation is a general term for models of the very early Universe which involve a short period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion"
Inflation for Beginners

"Inflation is the mysterious force that blew up the scale of the infant universe from sub-microscopic to gargantuan in a fraction of a second."
Cosmic Inflation: How It Gave the Universe the Ultimate Kickstart (Infographic)

Note that in every definition, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe after the energy which expanded already existed.

Note further that in a couple of the definitions it describes it as happening after the Big Bang. Apparently the Big Bang is defined slightly different by different people, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[ding]

Vilenkin pretty clearly states that the idea of the universe appearing spontaneously is NOT part of inflation. He points out that inflation has the same problem as the Big Bang, the question of what came before...that question is answered by the spontaneous appearance of the universe, not inflation.

It's a minor point, really. I have searched about inflation and everything I've seen on it says that inflation deals with the extremely rapid expansion of the universe prior to the more gradual expansion that has occurred since. It is separate from the creation of the universe, even if it does deal with what are believed to be the first moments of the universe's existence.

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

There are people saying that everything was created in the big bang, which means prior to the big bang there was no time, no space, no matter of anykind. This is not science, it is a desperate attempt from academia to kill God, because God is a far more plausible answer for many things, certainly the complexity of DNA

It is quite the opposite for me. It absolutely is science and it is absolutely compatible with a Creator.

 

[ding]

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

No, you have that totally wrong. Inflation is how matter and energy got into the universe. Can you show me where anyone says otherwise than you?

Here's the interview where Vilenkin said we started with the laws of physics. Starting at 4:57 they begin that part of the discussion.

It's already been brought up, but sure.

"The discovery, if confirmed, will also lend support to the inflation model in cosmology – the hypothesis that the universe underwent a brief period of exponential expansion immediately after the big bang"
What is cosmic inflation?| Explore | physics.org

"According to the theory of inflation, the early Universe expanded exponentially fast for a fraction of a second after the Big Bang."
Centre for Theoretical Cosmology: The Origins of the Universe: Inflation Introduction

"Cosmic inflation is the idea that the very early universe went through a period of accelerated, exponential expansion during the first 10-35 of a second before settling down to the more sedate rate of expansion we are still experiencing, so that all of the observable universe originated in a small (indeed, microscopic) causally-connected region."
Cosmic Inflation - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

"Inflation is a general term for models of the very early Universe which involve a short period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion"
Inflation for Beginners

"Inflation is the mysterious force that blew up the scale of the infant universe from sub-microscopic to gargantuan in a fraction of a second."
Cosmic Inflation: How It Gave the Universe the Ultimate Kickstart (Infographic)

Note that in every definition, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe after the energy which expanded already existed.

Note further that in a couple of the definitions it describes it as happening after the Big Bang. Apparently the Big Bang is defined slightly different by different people, as I mentioned earlier.

I am reposting this.

I think the problem is that you are confusing the big bang singularity with the beginning of space and time. The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That's just a mathematical thing. Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing. So logically that occurred before the so called big bang singularity.

I think of the big bang as the beginning of the expansion and cooling. Inflation is the build up of energy and matter before the expansion and cooling of the universe.

 

[ding]

Does the creation of space and time qualify as a miracle?

Approximately 14 billion years ago all of the matter and energy in the universe popped into existence out of nothing and occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

A "miracle" only within a race of animals who cry when a movie star drops dead. To a real society of intelligent beings, simpy a project of sorts. Your great grandma would have called tap-a-talk a "miracle".

If you could cram all of the matter in the universe into a space that is a fraction of a single atom, that would qualify as a miracle to me.

 

[Rosy]

I don't know what you heard, can you tell me in your own words what you thought he said?

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

There are people saying that everything was created in the big bang, which means prior to the big bang there was no time, no space, no matter of anykind. This is not science, it is a desperate attempt from academia to kill God, because God is a far more plausible answer for many things, certainly the complexity of DNA

I think the problem is that you are confusing the big bang singularity with the beginning of space and time. The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That's just a mathematical thing. Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing. So logically that occurred before the so called big bang singularity.

I think of the big bang as the beginning of the expansion and cooling. Inflation is the build up of energy and matter before the expansion and cooling of the universe.

The big bang is not based on anything other then the observation that the universe is expanding. Nothing about this observation gives any clue as to the reason for the expansion or what preceded it. Though in a free society anyone is free to speculate anything. Colleges have to have something to teach, so they make up shit, then the students burn the college after Trump wins and the professors and the dean say great job to the arsonist.

Great program huh

 

[Rosy]

Does the creation of space and time qualify as a miracle?

Approximately 14 billion years ago all of the matter and energy in the universe popped into existence out of nothing and occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

A "miracle" only within a race of animals who cry when a movie star drops dead. To a real society of intelligent beings, simpy a project of sorts. Your great grandma would have called tap-a-talk a "miracle".

If you could cram all of the matter in the universe into a space that is a fraction of a single atom, that would qualify as a miracle to me.

But there is zero evidence that this ever existed, and no human has ever shown a scintilla of evidence that it happened this way

 

[Montrovant]

I'll quote him, instead (beginning at 0:50):
"Still, the question remains what happened before inflation, if anything, and it appears that a satisfactory answer can never be given because I can keep asking "And what happens before". There is one scenario that breaks out of this infinite regress and that is somewhat popular now among the cosmologists and this is the scenario that the universe could originate spontaneously out of nothing."

He says that inflation leaves a question about what occurred before, and the answer which is now popular among cosmologists is that the universe came about spontaneously from nothing. He describes it as something separate from inflation.

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

No, you have that totally wrong. Inflation is how matter and energy got into the universe. Can you show me where anyone says otherwise than you?

Here's the interview where Vilenkin said we started with the laws of physics. Starting at 4:57 they begin that part of the discussion.

It's already been brought up, but sure.

"The discovery, if confirmed, will also lend support to the inflation model in cosmology – the hypothesis that the universe underwent a brief period of exponential expansion immediately after the big bang"
What is cosmic inflation?| Explore | physics.org

"According to the theory of inflation, the early Universe expanded exponentially fast for a fraction of a second after the Big Bang."
Centre for Theoretical Cosmology: The Origins of the Universe: Inflation Introduction

"Cosmic inflation is the idea that the very early universe went through a period of accelerated, exponential expansion during the first 10-35 of a second before settling down to the more sedate rate of expansion we are still experiencing, so that all of the observable universe originated in a small (indeed, microscopic) causally-connected region."
Cosmic Inflation - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

"Inflation is a general term for models of the very early Universe which involve a short period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion"
Inflation for Beginners

"Inflation is the mysterious force that blew up the scale of the infant universe from sub-microscopic to gargantuan in a fraction of a second."
Cosmic Inflation: How It Gave the Universe the Ultimate Kickstart (Infographic)

Note that in every definition, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe after the energy which expanded already existed.

Note further that in a couple of the definitions it describes it as happening after the Big Bang. Apparently the Big Bang is defined slightly different by different people, as I mentioned earlier.

I am reposting this.

I think the problem is that you are confusing the big bang singularity with the beginning of space and time. The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That's just a mathematical thing. Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing. So logically that occurred before the so called big bang singularity.

I think of the big bang as the beginning of the expansion and cooling. Inflation is the build up of energy and matter before the expansion and cooling of the universe.

Well, I just gave you definitions of inflation from multiple sources indicating that you are incorrect about what it entails. I'm not sure what else to say. It's just a matter of mislabeling.

Just consider the name inflation. To inflate is not to create, it is to expand. A balloon can only be inflated after the balloon exists.

 

[ding]

So first of all that doesn't say that inflation after happened after the big bang which is what you claimed, right?

We already discussed that. Depending on how you define the Big Bang, inflation happened just prior to or just after the BB.

In either case, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe, but not the creation of the energy of the universe, from everything I've seen. Think of it as similar to evolution: you can have evolutionary theory without explaining how life was created, because evolution only deals with how life acts once it already exists. Inflation deals with how the universe rapidly expanded after the energy which began the universe already existed.

No, you have that totally wrong. Inflation is how matter and energy got into the universe. Can you show me where anyone says otherwise than you?

Here's the interview where Vilenkin said we started with the laws of physics. Starting at 4:57 they begin that part of the discussion.

It's already been brought up, but sure.

"The discovery, if confirmed, will also lend support to the inflation model in cosmology – the hypothesis that the universe underwent a brief period of exponential expansion immediately after the big bang"
What is cosmic inflation?| Explore | physics.org

"According to the theory of inflation, the early Universe expanded exponentially fast for a fraction of a second after the Big Bang."
Centre for Theoretical Cosmology: The Origins of the Universe: Inflation Introduction

"Cosmic inflation is the idea that the very early universe went through a period of accelerated, exponential expansion during the first 10-35 of a second before settling down to the more sedate rate of expansion we are still experiencing, so that all of the observable universe originated in a small (indeed, microscopic) causally-connected region."
Cosmic Inflation - The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

"Inflation is a general term for models of the very early Universe which involve a short period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion"
Inflation for Beginners

"Inflation is the mysterious force that blew up the scale of the infant universe from sub-microscopic to gargantuan in a fraction of a second."
Cosmic Inflation: How It Gave the Universe the Ultimate Kickstart (Infographic)

Note that in every definition, inflation is about the rapid expansion of the universe after the energy which expanded already existed.

Note further that in a couple of the definitions it describes it as happening after the Big Bang. Apparently the Big Bang is defined slightly different by different people, as I mentioned earlier.

I am reposting this.

I think the problem is that you are confusing the big bang singularity with the beginning of space and time. The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That's just a mathematical thing. Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing. So logically that occurred before the so called big bang singularity.

I think of the big bang as the beginning of the expansion and cooling. Inflation is the build up of energy and matter before the expansion and cooling of the universe.

Well, I just gave you definitions of inflation from multiple sources indicating that you are incorrect about what it entails. I'm not sure what else to say. It's just a matter of mislabeling.

Just consider the name inflation. To inflate is not to create, it is to expand. A balloon can only be inflated after the balloon exists.

Inflation theory explains how matter and energy were created from nothing through a quantum tunneling event without violating the law of conservation. It has absolutely nothing to do with the expansion and cooling of the universe.

The big bang singularity is where Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations yield infinities. That is the point where all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. At this point in the timeline all of the matter is in place and then it began to expand and cool.

But if you want to characterize it that the big bang came first and then inflation occurred, please do so. That makes no sense to me. If people are characterizing it that way, I believe they are characterizing it wrong. Inflation theory was discovered after Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's equations so I can see how confusion occurred, but Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's equations never explained how matter and energy were created. Inflation does.