Does raising the minimum wage reduce poverty?

[Grumblenuts]

CBO

 

[Anomalism]

It argues both being possible, then mysteriously concludes with a "net reduction." Obvious BS is obvious.

Maybe we should stop trying to control wages. Maybe there are more practical ways to help the poor.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Sure, if everyone here miraculously formed or joined a union we might just catch up with the Scandinavians!

 

[Couchpotato]

Sure, if everyone here miraculously formed or joined a union we might just catch up with the Scandinavians!

Is there something preventing them from doing so? Why does this have to happen by force of Government? That seems to be the least advantageous way of going about it for everyone frankly.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sure, if everyone here miraculously formed or joined a union we might just catch up with the Scandinavians!

We had a lot of unions years ago. They chased all the jobs to China and led industry to outsource and ignited the automation companies. That's why we don't have unions anymore.

 

[DBA]

Sure, if everyone here miraculously formed or joined a union we might just catch up with the Scandinavians!

Yeah and we can all live in expensive, oversized closets like them too. Oh the joy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Maybe we should stop trying to control wages. Maybe there are more practical ways to help the poor.

We could start teaching kids in high school about the basics of economics. Make it a required course. I bet if you go to any lower income school, not one student knows the cost to raise a child in this country (not including college) is over $230,000. That's just one child. But these kids go out, start having children that of course they can't afford, and even with social programs, entered a world of poverty they'll never be able to climb out of.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No mystery where you plucked that "dollar an hour increase" from.

Just providing an example. What's your idea, $15.00 an hour?

Okay, lets go with that. We are going to raise the MW to $15.00 an hour that will effect only 1.5% of our entire workforce. We discussed all the negatives that would also take place for everybody else. Do you think that inflation, increase in cost of living, places barely staying open closing down, the elimination of starting jobs due to automation would be worth it?

 

[XponentialChaos]

It argues both being possible, then mysteriously concludes with a "net reduction." Obvious BS is obvious.

I’m just using the source that they sent me.

It’s from the CBO so it seems credible to me.

 

[Anomalism]

We could start teaching kids in high school about the basics of economics. Make it a required course. I bet if you go to any lower income school, not one student knows the cost to raise a child in this country (not including college) is over $230,000. That's just one child. But these kids go out, start having children that of course they can't afford, and even with social programs, entered a world of poverty they'll never be able to climb out of.

They're not going to stop having sex. Maybe the public could help more with contraception.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They're not going to stop having sex. Maybe the public could help more with contraception.

I'm sure free clinics all over the country do that already. And what makes you think the kids they have are all accidental? Have a kid, government provides free food, welfare, a HUD house, perhaps in the suburbs, if you work or just don't want to deal with the kids, a daycare voucher as well.

Now if you have a kid accidentally, then no big deal either. No financial responsibility to worry about. It's all on the taxpayers.

 

[Anomalism]

I'm sure free clinics all over the country do that already. And what makes you think the kids they have are all accidental? Have a kid, government provides free food, welfare, a HUD house, perhaps in the suburbs, if you work or just don't want to deal with the kids, a daycare voucher as well.

Now if you have a kid accidentally, then no big deal either. No financial responsibility to worry about. It's all on the taxpayers.

I think kids might not be as much of a free ride as you suppose. I'd be interested to know how many pregnancies are accidental. I don't think a lot of poor people are actually thinking like that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think kids might not be as much of a free ride as you suppose. I'd be interested to know how many pregnancies are accidental. I don't think a lot of poor people are actually thinking like that.

Oh please. I seen them in the store all the time with their SNAP's card. Seldom do I see a woman with less than three kids.

 

[Anomalism]

Oh please. I seen them in the store all the time with their SNAP's card. Seldom do I see a woman with less than three kids.

How much are these people actually getting from the government?

 

[LuckyDuck]

They mandated $15.00 per hour in Seattle and the result was that employers cut back on employee hours to offset the pay increase, thus the employees didn't make more.

 

[AntonToo]

How is a reduction in average family income a good thing?

It doesn't seem you are hearing what I'm saying.

I specifically explained that minimum wage is not a free lunch. That it has downsides, such as decreased purchasing power for higher end income brakets.

Yes, my family will get a slightly reducted real income if the minimum wage is raised, BUT it's well worth making sure that in America we minimally compensate people for the their labor.

To me and what I consider right and wrong in this world, anything less is un-civilized.

 

[dblack]

You think there will be jobs that just don't get done? That's just goofy.

Not at all. If the market value of those jobs is below minimum wage, the jobs are effectively banned.

 

[AntonToo]

They mandated $15.00 per hour in Seattle and the result was that employers cut back on employee hours to offset the pay increase, thus the employees didn't make more.

Yep, unemployment got out of controll in Seatle since minimum wage increases were passed in 2015:

The horror.

 

[XponentialChaos]

It doesn't seem you are hearing what I'm saying.

I specifically explained that minimum wage is not a free lunch. That it has downsides, such as decreased purchasing power for higher end income brakets.

Yes, my family will get a slightly reducted real income if the minimum wage is raised, BUT it's well worth making sure that in America we minimally compensate people for the their labor.

To me and what I consider right and wrong in this world, anything less is un-civilized.

Ok so we agree that there are some negative aspects to raising the minimum wage. We just disagree on the severity of them.

To me, it’s at best a minimal improvement. At best.

 

[dblack]

If the answer is no, and I'm pretty sure it is, then why have a minimum wage at all? If you raise the minimum wage to $15 all you're doing is ensuring that any job worth less than that won't exist legally, and that means unskilled people will have less job opportunities and less possibilities for expanding their value in the market. Grown people should not be inhibited by the government when it comes to their ability to negotiate their own labor. It's immoral, patronizing and it doesn't actually achieve its intended effect. It does ensure less jobs and less business opportunities though.

The minimum wage is well-intentioned, and our economy can survive despite it, but all it really does is limit the people that are worth the least. The impact a $15/hr minimum wage would have on the job market, particularly in more rural states, is no doubt massive. I consider myself left wing. I support a lot of left wing ideas. This is not one of them though. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It's not actually helping poor people. I think it's bad for everybody.

Minimum wage laws are, essentially, union style protectionism. The idea is to prevent poor people, most especially poor immigrants, from competing for jobs with what is often the only advantage they have - their willingness to work harder for less.