Does it get more. wrong than this? Defying parents an ethical alternative?

[Bob Blaylock]

The whole Trans thing is a bit of a distraction, anyway. It's the normalization of Gay and Lesbian relationships and behaviors that is at the heart of this.

It's all part of the same underlying evil.

 

[JohnDB]

You're right, of course, and the article actually addresses a lot of that.
Nobody is saying any different..in the vast majority of cases. However, kids are NOT the Tabula Rosa--the blank slate--that a lot of people like to think. Some few do identify with the other sex, in all ways and at a very young age. I get that you might think that Gender Dysphoria is B.S.....most experts disagree.

The whole Trans thing is a bit of a distraction, anyway. It's the normalization of Gay and Lesbian relationships and behaviors that is at the heart of this.

I come from the Mr Roger's and Rosie Greer era....
Where a guy can be a high end pastry chef AND a Construction Foreman at the same time....and a bit of a skirt chaser.
Because I like what I like. I don't allow others to pigeon hole me into anything I don't want to be.
Which is true independent thought. Which is what we need more of....especially by those who are getting groomed into confused sexuality.

I've traveled extensively....attitudes and behaviors are trained by the culture.

In some places holding hands is a sign of affection...in others it's nothing more than a sign of traveling together. (The two may not even like or know the other person)

Gender dysforia is a result of nurture and not nature. Where there is an almost demand for it to be otherwise....the science is rather clear and absolute. It's always nurture that has caused the dysphoria. (The .00001% genetic anomalies notwithstanding)

 

[Seymour Flops]

I think teachers walk a very fine line here, and because they are now routinely demonized as groomers and pedos, painted with the most extreme examples as if they were routine, children have lost an important advocate.

Have they?

I know that transgender activists have complained that anti-grooming would have a chilling effect on teachers but I haven't seen any data suggesting that this has actually happened. I teach in a pretty conservative Texas district and we have an LGBT club sponsored by teachers and a counselor. Even outside of that club there are plenty of teachers that are very open to having students talk to them about personal issues.

Teachers have always been more than simple instructors…they have often served as a non-judging person to confide in, a sounding board, an alternative to a disfunctional family and an advocate for a child to the family. What happens when you threaten teachers with poorly written laws threatening loss of job, licensure or fines is that child loses.

Poorly written laws are poorly written. You don't provide examples but I'll guess that you mean Florida's Parental Rights in Education Act, incorrectly called "Don't say gay" by anti-parent activists.

I find that law very well written. If I'm a Florida teacher, I know exactly how to comply with it. Don't teach third grade M below about gender orientation or other sexual topics. Don't secretly provide Mental Health care to children behind their parents back. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

This isn’t about withholding things like grades, serious problems or getting a spanking. Sometimes it is as simple as a girl getting a period for the first time. Sometimes it’s more. Sometimes the teacher can convince the child talk to a family member the child trusts. Many children live in very disfunctional families or families that may not tolerate a non hetero child. The child has learned he cannot confide in any adults. Where does he turn to?

How do you propose it be determined that a student's family is dysfunctional and therefore should be cut out of the process? If it is to be school staff who make that decision, will there be any check and balance on School staff? Are you aware that school staff is just as capable of being dysfunctional as parents?

 

[Concerned American]

We both know what would have happened to a kid who actually stated and acted Gay in your schools, now don't we.

No we don't. I attended school in IL, TX, NM and AZ during grade school and I was totally oblivious to any degenerates in our schools. Important things in grade schools were marbles, yoyos, tops, baseball etc. as it should be. Young children should not be saddled with adult prejudices.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Again, why is the school involved at all? Dress how you want, go by whatever nickname you want. The rest in on the student. Schools don't have to say or not say anything. To quote the wife: "that sounds like a you problem."

 

[Concerned American]

Interesting question and it has been around long before the transgender children fad. Many old fogies like myself almost brag that when they were kids they would never tell their mom that they had gotten pops in school, because that would only mean another spanking at home.

The very first time I heard a kid tell me that if I sent a bad grade home, he would "get my ass beat," I was concerned, but also wondered how truthful the kid was. I asked my principal about it and she gave a long off-topic answer followed by "sometimes you have to use your own judgement." My judgement was to grade the kid like every other student. I heard nothing further from that particular student, but I heard that plea dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In my career, many a CPS report has been made by teachers who are required by law to report suspected child abuse. How many of those kids were actually being beaten? Who can say?

Anyway, I suppose anytime a school shares negative information with a parent, there is a non-zero chance that it will lead to a beating. Is the answer to withold information, or maybe even provide false information as the article suggests? Should the school prepare "cover" report cards with all A's for students at risk of beatings while keeping that student's real submarine grades on file? On parent night, should all the teachers agree on a cover story of how well the child is doing academically and behaviorally?

If it is a gay or transgender child who is afraid for his parent to find out, should female* students be encouraged to serve as beards on prom night, or game night to play the role of the smitten girlfriend, so dad thinks his son is the proverbial chip off the old block?

I'm guessing that you will say the last part is absurd. I agree. But I think the whole idea of teachers deceiving and defying parents is absurd. Where do you draw the line, is the question?


*If the school did recruit such female beards, must transgirls be allowed to play that role?

I think sight has been lost to the fact that the educational process is designed to be collaborative effort between the parent and the educator. Parental rights are sacrosanct, and it is definitely in the teachers responsibility to relate to the parent areas of concern socially and academically. This is not to say that there are not dysfunctional families, but they are not nearly as prevalent as these current grooming fad proponents would have you believe. When they arise and the educator becomes aware of them, it is incumbent on them to report to CPS or the pertinent dept. In no way should the education system attempt to judge or keep a parent in the dark with any concern about their child. We already have social programs in place to address these concerns and they are NOT the schools.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Again, why is the school involved at all? Dress how you want, go by whatever nickname you want. The rest in on the student. Schools don't have to say or not say anything. To quote the wife: "that sounds like a you problem."

Oh, I agree.

I don't think the school needs to call home and say, "Johnny is dressing pretty effeminate these days. You might want to check if he's getting light the loafers."

But if johnny is getting counseling from a school staffer who is telling him that he might be transgender and the staffer can help him get on the transistion train and his parents will never know.

 

[Coyote]

Have they?

I know that transgender activists have complained that anti-grooming would have a chilling effect on teachers but I haven't seen any data suggesting that this has actually happened. I teach in a pretty conservative Texas district and we have an LGBT club sponsored by teachers and a counselor. Even outside of that club there are plenty of teachers that are very open to having students talk to them about personal issues.

Poorly written laws are poorly written. You don't provide examples but I'll guess that you mean Florida's Parental Rights in Education Act, incorrectly called "Don't say gay" by anti-parent activists.

I find that law very well written. If I'm a Florida teacher, I know exactly how to comply with it. Don't teach third grade M below about gender orientation or other sexual topics. Don't secretly provide Mental Health care to children behind their parents back. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Is it?

Don’t teach gender orientation. OK.

What if a child asks about it?
What if the want to know why Heather has two mommies?

Don’t provide mental health care to kids behind the parent’s backs.

What exactly does that mean? Can a teacher console a child? Listen to a child’s problems? Offer reassurance? Maintain any confidentiality? (this assumes it is not a life threatening issue like suicide).

More to the point, will they need to distance themselves from their pupils rather than risk saying something that could be construed wrongly and lead to loss of licensure, lawsuits, loss of job.

How do you propose it be determined that a student's family is dysfunctional and therefore should be cut out of the process? If it is to be school staff who make that decision, will there be any check and balance on School staff? Are you aware that school staff is just as capable of being dysfunctional as parents?

How is it handled now?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Is it?

Don’t teach gender orientation. OK.

Don't teach gender orientation to 3rd graders is the Florida law, and it makes perfect sense to me.

In high school talking about gender as part a discussion of current controversies in which the differing viewpoints on the subject are presented and students allowed to give opinions without being shamed, censored, or punished, would benefit them. But teachers will be tempted to present their own opinion, whatever it may be, as the authoritative last word. That does not encourage critical thinking.

What if a child asks about it?
What if the want to know why Heather has two mommies?

Heather with two mommies is a character in a book. What reason to give that book to a Pre-K through 2nd grader, as Amazon rates it other than to prompt the child to ask the question? So teachers can't claim that they are being stifled by not being able to answer questions that they deliberately tried to illicit. I'm not sure that question would even come up if the teacher read the book aloud to second graders. I think the teacher would have to prompt them by saying, "do you find it interesting that Heather has two mommies?"

If the book were "Heather Sings in the Choir Concert," and it talked about Heather singing, being nervous, etc, and her mommies being proud of her, I doubt the kids would notice that it was "mommies" instead of parents. The book is intended to be in-your-face. To seven year-olds.

If the Book was "Heather has Two Mommies" but the subtitle was "They're Sister Wives, and they both love Heather's Daddy!" you would not be so keen to get that book into the hands of children. I'm guessing that you would demand it be removed along with the teacher who read it to them.

Don’t provide mental health care to kids behind the parent’s backs.

What exactly does that mean? Can a teacher console a child? Listen to a child’s problems? Offer reassurance?

Sure. Those are the kind of things that a teacher can use to help the child focus on learning rather than being distracted by personal problems. So, it is part of the job, just like giving them peanut butter crackers if they come to school having missed breakfast. That's basic Maslow.

Even then, I believe that teachers can easily take that too far - I see it too often. Encouraging a child to become dependent on a perceived personal interest can lead to trauma when the child moves up to another school, and the teacher turns focus to the new students. I don't believe that teachers should tell their students that they love them, even though sometimes teachers cannot help but love their students.

That is teacher love, not family love. Some students won't know the difference, especially if they have emotional disability. I hope I don't have to explain the pitfalls of male teachers getting emotionally involved with students, but it should be no different for females.

Maintain any confidentiality? (this assumes it is not a life threatening issue like suicide).

The counselor at my school has a sign above her desk that says, "What you say in here stays in here . . . unless you tell me that someone is hurting you or about to hurt you, you are hurting someone or about to hurt someone, or you are hurting yourself, or about to hurt yourself." I'm fine with that.

Let the kid tell the counselor that they are confused about their gender, or orientation. If the counselor isn't pushing the transgender activist agenda, they will tell the kid truthfully that nearly all kids have confusion. If the counselor hides that truth advises the student to pursue realizing another gender, that turns into mental health care and the parents have a right to know.

If the counselor decides that the child needs to be referred to a school psychologist, any kind of medical provider, or any outside agency or NGO, the parents should be informed.

Listening to a kid express their confusion is different from a school conspiring to keep a child's claim of different gender identity from the parents by calling the student by their name to parents, and by the student's chosen name at school. If Andrew asks the teachers to call him Andrea, fine. But call him that when you talk to parents. It is rare that adults hide what they are doing with a parent's child and it is for the good of the child.

More to the point, will they need to distance themselves from their pupils rather than risk saying something that could be construed wrongly and lead to loss of licensure, lawsuits, loss of job.

Yes, that would be wise advice for the protection of themselves and the children.

How is it handled now?

Comes up all the time. We talk in "staffings" about how the parents are not a help and even a hinderance to our work with the student. Then we say, "ok, but that is what we cannot change, let's talk about what we can change." If we suspect abuse, we report it as required by law, but we don't stop working with the parent in the interest of the child. If CPS steps in and removes the child, then we deal with foster parents.

I've never been in a situation in which any teacher or administrator made the decision to cut a custodial parent out of their child's education process. How in the world would we presume to do that?

 

[SweetSue92]

I come from the Mr Roger's and Rosie Greer era....
Where a guy can be a high end pastry chef AND a Construction Foreman at the same time....and a bit of a skirt chaser.
Because I like what I like. I don't allow others to pigeon hole me into anything I don't want to be.
Which is true independent thought. Which is what we need more of....especially by those who are getting groomed into confused sexuality.

I've traveled extensively....attitudes and behaviors are trained by the culture.

In some places holding hands is a sign of affection...in others it's nothing more than a sign of traveling together. (The two may not even like or know the other person)

Gender dysforia is a result of nurture and not nature. Where there is an almost demand for it to be otherwise....the science is rather clear and absolute. It's always nurture that has caused the dysphoria. (The .00001% genetic anomalies notwithstanding)

This is one of the saddest aspects of this gender panic: a girl who loves sports and climbing trees is now suspect of not being a GIRL, and a boy who loves clothing and sparkles is suspect of not being a BOY.

It's bogus. It robs humanity of our....yeah, diversity. Ironically.