Does it get more. wrong than this? Defying parents an ethical alternative?

[EvilEyeFleegle]

One at a time, Pledge of Allegiance--um, support of the government that you live under? Songs? To disseminate musical education? Same books? What would you suggest? Different books? One that teaches 2 + 2 = 4 and one that teaches 2 + 2 = 75? Maybe science books that teach that there are 527 different genders? Use your head. Sounds like you went to one of those alternative education schools or did you escape from the Jim Jones school of kool-aid consumption?

You missed the entire point...LOL!

it's the unwritten rules that we learn..everything from how to carry a chair to how to socialize. We learn gender identifies and the unique markers we've designed for each.
I went to as classic a 1950's elementary as you could imagine.

But I learned to read from the same book that a 1st grader anywhere in US did. We learned in lockstep..whether or not you know it.

I suspect that that changed a long time ago.

 

[braalian]

Then how did you know "several" of them?

Oh come one, don’t play dumb.

When I was in high school in the 90s we all knew certain kids were gay, it’s just that nobody (and I mean nobody) was “out” back then. At least not where I grew up. It literally would’ve been a death sentence. The very best outcome they could’ve hoped for was to be run out of the school. Getting beaten to death would’ve been a more likely outcome.

You cannot honestly tell me you were unaware of there being closeted gay kids in your high school. That’s bullshit.

 

[Concerned American]

You missed the entire point...LOL!

it's the unwritten rules that we learn..everything from how to carry a chair to how to socialize. We learn gender identifies and the unique markers we've designed for each.
I went to as classic a 1950's elementary as you could imagine.

But I learned to read from the same book that a 1st grader anywhere in US did. We learned in lockstep..whether or not you know it.

I suspect that that changed a long time ago.

I went to grade school in the 50s as well in four different states and I was NEVER in a class where the word homosexual, transexual, or any other kind of sex ual was ever discussed. I learned the proven scientific aspects of human reproduction. I was not exposed to Drag Queen Story hour. I don't know where you went to school but if they taught those subjects, you were abused.

 

[Concerned American]

When I was in high school in the 90s we all knew certain kids were gay,

We knew in the 60s HIGH SCHOOLS that there were degenerate lifestyles. No one on this thread is talking about HIGH SCHOOL. The subject is not high schools or middle schools. We are talking about the indoctrination to those degenerate lifestyles to primary grade students. Homosexuality, transexuality, Drag Queen story hours have no place in grade school education. Maybe you are playing dumb.

 

[braalian]

We knew in the 60s HIGH SCHOOLS that there were degenerate lifestyles. No one on this thread is talking about HIGH SCHOOL. The subject is not high schools or middle schools. We are talking about the indoctrination to those degenerate lifestyles to primary grade students. Homosexuality, transexuality, Drag Queen story hours have no place in grade school education. Maybe you are playing dumb.

I agree no reason to teach young kids anything about sexuality.

But once they’re old enough for sex ed, they’re probably old enough for at least the basic definitions of homosexual,heterosexual, etc.

Trust me, 12 year olds today are well aware of these terms.

As for “drag queen story hour”, that’s really not relevent. As far as I can see it’s only happening in a small number of libraries. Kids only go if their parents want them to. No one’s forcing anyones kids to attend.

I wouldn’t want my kids to go to one, I’ll admit. But if parents *choose* to take their kids to the program, well who the fuck cares?

 

[Concerned American]

No one’s forcing anyones kids to attend.

Drag queen story hours have been in Philadelphia public schools. Drag queen story hour for 1st graders at Philadelphia public school outrages parents

But if parents *choose* to take their kids to the program, well who the fuck cares?

That is the point that those that oppose public grade school sex ed are trying to make. A parent is free to raise their children any way they want. When those degenerate lifestyles are promoted to young impressionable kids in grade schools whose parents oppose those lifestyles, it becomes government-promoted degenerate sexual indoctrination.

 

[braalian]

I don’t think listening to a man in a dress read a book would necessarily “hurt” a kid. But, yes, I agree public schools should not be the place for such things.

Very, very stupid on the part of the school. Apart from everything else, it’s likely having the exact opposite effect that they wanted.

 

[Coyote]

Teaching children to turn in their parents to the authorities for wrong thinking and speech.
Is straight out of Mao/ Stalin communist playbook. ..

What is reporting children’s concerns about gender and sexual orientation to parents who are going to beat or shame the shit out of them?

 

[SweetSue92]

Or should I say the ONLY ethical alternative?

Is Defying Parents the Only Ethical Alternative?

Instead of rigid rules, educators need the freedom to finesse delicate questions about young students’ gender identity.

www.theatlantic.com

They have to be kidding with this, right?

In teaching children to avoid sexual predators, one of the key lessons is to report any adult that asks them to keep a secret or offers to keep their secrets. Those are the lessons parents need to be teaching, and any “educator” who attempts to circumvent that parental lesson for any reason, needs to experience escalating consequences including but no limited to:

Termination
De-certification
Fines
Imprisonment
Termination.

We have lost our minds that we have allowed a society in which a well-known magazine would dare to publish something like that.

Agreed 100%. And in the example in the article of 4 year old Michael, I would tell the mother, "it's free play. Key word: free. I'm too busy to constantly direct Michael away from the girl toys because you don't want him playing with them. That's a discussion you need to have at home."

And that's the truth. If it is really free play, the child is free to choose.

 

[toobfreak]

The good old days was when a teacher tried to groom a child into being gay, queer or transgendered parents would deposit pieces of that teacher all over town.

The good ol' days was back in the 1960s when teachers still actually taught kids reading, writing and arithmetic! Now the kids can't read for shit, they can't write at all, and forget about the math. And they are confused about everything else as well.

But they know how to peel a banana, shave a cucumber, and find Tik Tok on their smartphones in their sleep.

 

[Seymour Flops]

What is reporting children’s concerns about gender and sexual orientation to parents who are going to beat or shame the shit out of them?

Interesting question and it has been around long before the transgender children fad. Many old fogies like myself almost brag that when they were kids they would never tell their mom that they had gotten pops in school, because that would only mean another spanking at home.

The very first time I heard a kid tell me that if I sent a bad grade home, he would "get my ass beat," I was concerned, but also wondered how truthful the kid was. I asked my principal about it and she gave a long off-topic answer followed by "sometimes you have to use your own judgement." My judgement was to grade the kid like every other student. I heard nothing further from that particular student, but I heard that plea dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In my career, many a CPS report has been made by teachers who are required by law to report suspected child abuse. How many of those kids were actually being beaten? Who can say?

Anyway, I suppose anytime a school shares negative information with a parent, there is a non-zero chance that it will lead to a beating. Is the answer to withold information, or maybe even provide false information as the article suggests? Should the school prepare "cover" report cards with all A's for students at risk of beatings while keeping that student's real submarine grades on file? On parent night, should all the teachers agree on a cover story of how well the child is doing academically and behaviorally?

If it is a gay or transgender child who is afraid for his parent to find out, should female* students be encouraged to serve as beards on prom night, or game night to play the role of the smitten girlfriend, so dad thinks his son is the proverbial chip off the old block?

I'm guessing that you will say the last part is absurd. I agree. But I think the whole idea of teachers deceiving and defying parents is absurd. Where do you draw the line, is the question?


*If the school did recruit such female beards, must transgirls be allowed to play that role?

 

[Coyote]

Interesting question and it has been around long before the transgender children fad. Many old fogies like myself almost brag that when they were kids they would never tell their mom that they had gotten pops in school, because that would only mean another spanking at home.

The very first time I heard a kid tell me that if I sent a bad grade home, he would "get my ass beat," I was concerned, but also wondered how truthful the kid was. I asked my principal about it and she gave a long off-topic answer followed by "sometimes you have to use your own judgement." My judgement was to grade the kid like every other student. I heard nothing further from that particular student, but I heard that plea dozens, if not hundreds of times.

In my career, many a CPS report has been made by teachers who are required by law to report suspected child abuse. How many of those kids were actually being beaten? Who can say?

Anyway, I suppose anytime a school shares negative information with a parent, there is a non-zero chance that it will lead to a beating. Is the answer to withold information, or maybe even provide false information as the article suggests? Should the school prepare "cover" report cards with all A's for students at risk of beatings while keeping that student's real submarine grades on file? On parent night, should all the teachers agree on a cover story of how well the child is doing academically and behaviorally?

If it is a gay or transgender child who is afraid for his parent to find out, should female* students be encouraged to serve as beards on prom night, or game night to play the role of the smitten girlfriend, so dad thinks his son is the proverbial chip off the old block?

I'm guessing that you will say the last part is absurd. I agree. But I think the whole idea of teachers deceiving and defying parents is absurd. Where do you draw the line, is the question?


*If the school did recruit such female beards, must transgirls be allowed to play that role?

I think teachers walk a very fine line here, and because they are now routinely demonized as groomers and pedos, painted with the most extreme examples as if they were routine, children have lost an important advocate.

Teachers have always been more than simple instructors…they have often served as a non-judging person to confide in, a sounding board, an alternative to a disfunctional family and an advocate for a child to the family. What happens when you threaten teachers with poorly written laws threatening loss of job, licensure or fines is that child loses.

This isn’t about withholding things like grades, serious problems or getting a spanking. Sometimes it is as simple as a girl getting a period for the first time. Sometimes it’s more. Sometimes the teacher can convince the child talk to a family member the child trusts. Many children live in very disfunctional families or families that may not tolerate a non hetero child. The child has learned he cannot confide in any adults. Where does he turn to?

 

[JohnDB]

Just because a 4 year old boy likes skirts or dolls does not mean anything other than these things catch his eye. He might enjoy the textures of ribbons as well as the bright colors they have.
Because 4 year old boys are unconcerned about sex or genders yet. They are curious and learning. Of course they want what they can't have....who doesn't? But these behaviors in no way define the child as being transgendered or even gender confused.

A little boy playing with dolls is consumed with learning interpersonal relationships of others...a needed skill for many careers in the future. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his gender or his sexual desires....because four year olds don't have a sex drive or a sexual identity....unless someone begins to brainwash this future leader into focusing on sexual confusion.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Stepping away from the trans issue for a moment--the real controversy here is some fairly reputable educators...proposing that in certain ethical cases..they have not only the duty, but the right...to honor the student's requests..and deliberately disobey the clearly stated intent of the parents. To the point of not even notifying the Parents of the request!

That's pretty much the same thing that the OP said, but you're describing it from the point of view of a soulless sociopath who somehow believes that this is in any way ethical or acceptable.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Blah, Blah, Blah.
Maybe it's time to ditch Christianity..or at least the toxic forms of it.
Repulsive is in the eye of the beholder--actually that's the crux of the matter eh?

Given the sick, fucked-up shit that you are defending, you're really not in any credible position to condemn any part of Christianity as “toxic”.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I went to grade school in the 50s as well in four different states and I was NEVER in a class where the word homosexual, transexual, or any other kind of sex ual was ever discussed. I learned the proven scientific aspects of human reproduction. I was not exposed to Drag Queen Story hour. I don't know where you went to school but if they taught those subjects, you were abused.

Of course they didn't address these issues..that is the point. Yeah, now they're mentioning the words homosexual, transexual. You have huge issues with this, I get it. You think that the educational system was better then..but it wasn't. We both know what would have happened to a kid who actually stated and acted Gay in your schools, now don't we. I get that you think that's a good thing..or at least, a normal thing. I do not. In our 1950's classrooms..pedophile parents, 'Uncles' and Preachers were predating upon the children without let or hindrance.
The rights of the parents resulted in thousands of victims of child sexual and physical abuse. Bullying was normalized, "Boys will be boys', right?
It was not better in those days, far from it..just more well hidden.

Teaching children acceptance of others choices..and that their choices should be accepted--is not a bad thing.

..and it's not grooming. Despite all your spin, that's just not going to wash.

If you want a real issue..and i get that you don't---how much porn do you think the average kid has seen on the internet..by the age of 12 or 14.
That should be a HUGE concern, but I hear very little. After all..if your contention is that children are being 'groomed' for sexual abuse by the mere conversation..how much more destructive must be pictures and videos?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Given the sick, fucked-up shit that you are defending, you're really not in any credible position to condemn any part of Christianity as “toxic”.

Oh I disagree..this is pretty toxic, of course, I could hardly put all the links down..since that would be prohibitive in terms of space.

Which is to say, given the sick, fucked-up shit YOU"RE defending--perhaps you might tend to your own, widely known and discussed issues in the LDS church..long-known enablers of child sexual abuse.

Daughter of LDS Church president at center of decades-old sex abuse cover-up allegations

(KUTV) — At least six people are suing the daughter and son-in-law of Russell M. Nelson, the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Neither Nelson nor the Church is named as defendants in this 79-page lawsuit filed in federal court on Wednesday. The allegations of sexual...

kutv.com

LDS Church named in lawsuit alleging sexual abuse of Navajo children in foster program

WINDOW ROCK, Ariz. — Two members of the Navajo Nation have sued The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, alleging the church placed Native American children in Mormon foster homes where they were sexually abused and that LDS leaders did not take adequate steps to protect those children. The

www.fox13now.com

Families speak out against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over sex abuse allegations

Multiple families are suing the Church and several Church officials for allegedly failing to take steps to adequately protect their children from a teen predator.

abcnews.go.com

Six Mormon families suing LDS church over alleged cover up of child sexual abuse

SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) - A group of families are suing the LDS church, alleging it covered up child sex abuse by another member in West Virginia.A total of six families with nine children filed the lawsuit against The Corporation of the First Presidency of

kutv.com

Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

12,000 pages of sealed court records. A so-called help line. Sex abuse kept secret. AP reveals system that can hide accusations from authorities — and the public eye.

apnews.com

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What is reporting children’s concerns about gender and sexual orientation to parents who are going to beat or shame the shit out of them?

well, of course a pedophile isn't going to want to do that. After all, to tell a child's parents that their young child has any such “concerns” is to admit that they've been allowing some sick pedophile to fill that child's head with that sick shit.

The one withholding such information isn't concerned about what the parents will do to the child; such a piece of shit is concerned for its own safety, about what the parents will do to it.

Pedophiles should be put death, and so should sick fucks such as yourself who take the side of pedophiles against the side of the victims thereof.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Just because a 4 year old boy likes skirts or dolls does not mean anything other than these things catch his eye. He might enjoy the textures of ribbons as well as the bright colors they have.
Because 4 year old boys are unconcerned about sex or genders yet. They are curious and learning. Of course they want what they can't have....who doesn't? But these behaviors in no way define the child as being transgendered or even gender confused.

A little boy playing with dolls is consumed with learning interpersonal relationships of others...a needed skill for many careers in the future. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his gender or his sexual desires....because four year olds don't have a sex drive or a sexual identity....unless someone begins to brainwash this future leader into focusing on sexual confusion.

You're right, of course, and the article actually addresses a lot of that.
Nobody is saying any different..in the vast majority of cases. However, kids are NOT the Tabula Rosa--the blank slate--that a lot of people like to think. Some few do identify with the other sex, in all ways and at a very young age. I get that you might think that Gender Dysphoria is B.S.....most experts disagree.

The whole Trans thing is a bit of a distraction, anyway. It's the normalization of Gay and Lesbian relationships and behaviors that is at the heart of this.

 

[Papageorgio]

Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4,500 years ago document priests known as gala who may have been transgender. Likely depictions occur in art around the Mediterranean from 9,000 to 3,700 years ago. In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and Rome, there were galli priests that some scholars believe to have been trans women.

Transgender history - Wikipedia​

Michael Dillon

Michael Dillon (1915-1962) was the first person in the world to transition from female-to-male through hormones and surgery. From an aristocratic family, Dillon led the women's rowing team to many victories while at Oxford University in the 1930s.

Trans Pioneers – Trans and Gender-Nonconforming Histories​

May have been? Nice proof there knucklehead.