Does God Exist?

[Indeependent]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

Where's the water? Its still here! What you are missing is early earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature when Genesis 1:2 was occurring. Not to mention what God's spirit was doing going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure. The boiling point of water is much higher under great pressure.

The amount of carbon in earth's crustal carbonates is over 64 million petagrams as Britannica has stated. That is roughly the same amount as the carbon in Venus' atmosphere - what is the air pressure on the surface of Venus?

Remember, earth's crustal carbonates were deposited by the geologic carbon cycle which removes CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere as CO3 (carbonate) ions and combines it with Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) ions to form carbonates.

See:

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle: The biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration mediate the exchange of carbon between the atmosphere or hydrosphere and the biosphere, In these reactions, CH2O crudely represents organic material, the biomass of bacteria...

www.britannica.com

I will post more on this in my next post.

I missed the parts where Genesis provides a description of the earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature.

Could you elaborate on God's spirit going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure?

BTW, Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle you described.

Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began. I did elaborate concerning what I think Genesis 1:2 is referring to.

So, what do you believe early earth's atmospheric content was? And how do you think earth accreted its water?

If Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began, how many water cycles are there? Where in the Bible are we given a description of evapotranspiration?

The problems with Biblical cosmology are profound. In several places in the Bible, the sky is referred to as a vault, with the stars stuck on it. Genesis 1 refers to water above this vault (an idea no doubt borrowed from the Babylonian cosmology, which pictured the Earth as a flat disk inside a cosmic bubble in a cosmic sea). The Bible says little about the shape of the Earth, referring in one place to the "circle" of the Earth (a disk shape), and in another place to the "four corners" of the Earth (a rectangular surface shape). In one of the Gospels, the Devil tempted Jesus by taking him up a mountain where he could see "all the kingdoms of the world" (no further info on this remarkable mountain). This would only be possible if the Earth was flat.

Inaccurate post - e.g. "vault?" Satan gave Jesus a vision. What are the definitions of Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22?

The current water cycle is stated simply here:

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the winter torrents+ are going forth to the sea,+ yet the sea itself is not full.+ To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth.+

See:

Creation Says, “They Are Inexcusable” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

You haven't studied your Bible'ology.
Genesis 1:6-8 6And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Genesis 1:20 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky."

Ecclesiastes 1:7 says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground.

We're still left with nothing in the Bible describing the water cycle (evapotranspiration). The water going to sea describes rivers. Nothing really godly about water flowing downstream. Evapotranspiration is the process of evaporation, condensation in the atmosphere, cooling and rainfall. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells us nothing of that.

Job 38:22 says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses.

"Riv" means vault?
You better switch dictionaries.
"Riv" is a separation that does not necessarily indicate a complete separation.

I’m not clear you understand what you’re replying to.

Oh, I do.
You are an atheist...I don't care.
You mangle Hebrew...I care.
You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The fact is that you are filled with hate and have never bothered to inquire.

 

[Hollie]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

Where's the water? Its still here! What you are missing is early earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature when Genesis 1:2 was occurring. Not to mention what God's spirit was doing going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure. The boiling point of water is much higher under great pressure.

The amount of carbon in earth's crustal carbonates is over 64 million petagrams as Britannica has stated. That is roughly the same amount as the carbon in Venus' atmosphere - what is the air pressure on the surface of Venus?

Remember, earth's crustal carbonates were deposited by the geologic carbon cycle which removes CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere as CO3 (carbonate) ions and combines it with Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) ions to form carbonates.

See:

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle: The biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration mediate the exchange of carbon between the atmosphere or hydrosphere and the biosphere, In these reactions, CH2O crudely represents organic material, the biomass of bacteria...

www.britannica.com

I will post more on this in my next post.

I missed the parts where Genesis provides a description of the earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature.

Could you elaborate on God's spirit going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure?

BTW, Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle you described.

Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began. I did elaborate concerning what I think Genesis 1:2 is referring to.

So, what do you believe early earth's atmospheric content was? And how do you think earth accreted its water?

If Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began, how many water cycles are there? Where in the Bible are we given a description of evapotranspiration?

The problems with Biblical cosmology are profound. In several places in the Bible, the sky is referred to as a vault, with the stars stuck on it. Genesis 1 refers to water above this vault (an idea no doubt borrowed from the Babylonian cosmology, which pictured the Earth as a flat disk inside a cosmic bubble in a cosmic sea). The Bible says little about the shape of the Earth, referring in one place to the "circle" of the Earth (a disk shape), and in another place to the "four corners" of the Earth (a rectangular surface shape). In one of the Gospels, the Devil tempted Jesus by taking him up a mountain where he could see "all the kingdoms of the world" (no further info on this remarkable mountain). This would only be possible if the Earth was flat.

Inaccurate post - e.g. "vault?" Satan gave Jesus a vision. What are the definitions of Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22?

The current water cycle is stated simply here:

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the winter torrents+ are going forth to the sea,+ yet the sea itself is not full.+ To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth.+

See:

Creation Says, “They Are Inexcusable” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

You haven't studied your Bible'ology.
Genesis 1:6-8 6And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Genesis 1:20 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky."

Ecclesiastes 1:7 says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground.

We're still left with nothing in the Bible describing the water cycle (evapotranspiration). The water going to sea describes rivers. Nothing really godly about water flowing downstream. Evapotranspiration is the process of evaporation, condensation in the atmosphere, cooling and rainfall. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells us nothing of that.

Job 38:22 says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses.

"Riv" means vault?
You better switch dictionaries.
"Riv" is a separation that does not necessarily indicate a complete separation.

I’m not clear you understand what you’re replying to.

Oh, I do.
You are an atheist...I don't care.
You mangle Hebrew...I care.
You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The fact is that you are filled with hate and have never bothered to inquire.

I "mangled" nothing. You need to control your anger and frustration

 

[mamooth]

Your link is on themodynamics, not chemistry. I was not posting on the section on thermodynamics. Have you found any errors Thaxton et al made on chemistry?

Much better. I've found a fundamental logic error.

He shows that a 1952 experiment wasn't good enough, and thus declares evolution must be impossible without divine guidance. The problem there is incorrectoy assuming that the Mille experiment was the final word on the matter. It wasn't. The Miller experiment is obsolete. It didn't even use the right atmospheric as a starting point. Thus, Thaxton's supposed debunking is obsolete.

Can you explain why most peer reviewed scientific journals do not give the actual chemical reaction product proportions in MIller's famous experiment?

You tell us. Don't ask me to explain your theories.

I suggest you look at more modern prebiotic chemistry theories. For example, we now know primitive earth contained iron and carbonites that would have neutralized acids, so a formic acid buildup wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[Indeependent]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

Where's the water? Its still here! What you are missing is early earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature when Genesis 1:2 was occurring. Not to mention what God's spirit was doing going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure. The boiling point of water is much higher under great pressure.

The amount of carbon in earth's crustal carbonates is over 64 million petagrams as Britannica has stated. That is roughly the same amount as the carbon in Venus' atmosphere - what is the air pressure on the surface of Venus?

Remember, earth's crustal carbonates were deposited by the geologic carbon cycle which removes CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere as CO3 (carbonate) ions and combines it with Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) ions to form carbonates.

See:

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle: The biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration mediate the exchange of carbon between the atmosphere or hydrosphere and the biosphere, In these reactions, CH2O crudely represents organic material, the biomass of bacteria...

www.britannica.com

I will post more on this in my next post.

I missed the parts where Genesis provides a description of the earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature.

Could you elaborate on God's spirit going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure?

BTW, Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle you described.

Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began. I did elaborate concerning what I think Genesis 1:2 is referring to.

So, what do you believe early earth's atmospheric content was? And how do you think earth accreted its water?

If Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began, how many water cycles are there? Where in the Bible are we given a description of evapotranspiration?

The problems with Biblical cosmology are profound. In several places in the Bible, the sky is referred to as a vault, with the stars stuck on it. Genesis 1 refers to water above this vault (an idea no doubt borrowed from the Babylonian cosmology, which pictured the Earth as a flat disk inside a cosmic bubble in a cosmic sea). The Bible says little about the shape of the Earth, referring in one place to the "circle" of the Earth (a disk shape), and in another place to the "four corners" of the Earth (a rectangular surface shape). In one of the Gospels, the Devil tempted Jesus by taking him up a mountain where he could see "all the kingdoms of the world" (no further info on this remarkable mountain). This would only be possible if the Earth was flat.

Inaccurate post - e.g. "vault?" Satan gave Jesus a vision. What are the definitions of Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22?

The current water cycle is stated simply here:

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the winter torrents+ are going forth to the sea,+ yet the sea itself is not full.+ To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth.+

See:

Creation Says, “They Are Inexcusable” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

You haven't studied your Bible'ology.
Genesis 1:6-8 6And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Genesis 1:20 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky."

Ecclesiastes 1:7 says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground.

We're still left with nothing in the Bible describing the water cycle (evapotranspiration). The water going to sea describes rivers. Nothing really godly about water flowing downstream. Evapotranspiration is the process of evaporation, condensation in the atmosphere, cooling and rainfall. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells us nothing of that.

Job 38:22 says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses.

"Riv" means vault?
You better switch dictionaries.
"Riv" is a separation that does not necessarily indicate a complete separation.

I’m not clear you understand what you’re replying to.

Oh, I do.
You are an atheist...I don't care.
You mangle Hebrew...I care.
You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The fact is that you are filled with hate and have never bothered to inquire.

I "mangled" nothing. You need to control your anger and frustration

I'm amused by your lack of education.

Do you know what it takes to be a renowned atheist?
Every atheist in the circuit knows their history cold (without looking it up) and knows Tanach forwards and backwards.
It's obvious you haven't studied the short history of atheism.
Even Israel has institutes of higher learning dedicated to pushing their agenda.

The only problem these "scholars" have is that they have to sneak in lies and hope the audience doesn't notice.

 

[Indeependent]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

Where's the water? Its still here! What you are missing is early earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature when Genesis 1:2 was occurring. Not to mention what God's spirit was doing going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure. The boiling point of water is much higher under great pressure.

The amount of carbon in earth's crustal carbonates is over 64 million petagrams as Britannica has stated. That is roughly the same amount as the carbon in Venus' atmosphere - what is the air pressure on the surface of Venus?

Remember, earth's crustal carbonates were deposited by the geologic carbon cycle which removes CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere as CO3 (carbonate) ions and combines it with Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) ions to form carbonates.

See:

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle: The biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration mediate the exchange of carbon between the atmosphere or hydrosphere and the biosphere, In these reactions, CH2O crudely represents organic material, the biomass of bacteria...

www.britannica.com

I will post more on this in my next post.

I missed the parts where Genesis provides a description of the earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature.

Could you elaborate on God's spirit going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure?

BTW, Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle you described.

Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began. I did elaborate concerning what I think Genesis 1:2 is referring to.

So, what do you believe early earth's atmospheric content was? And how do you think earth accreted its water?

If Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began, how many water cycles are there? Where in the Bible are we given a description of evapotranspiration?

The problems with Biblical cosmology are profound. In several places in the Bible, the sky is referred to as a vault, with the stars stuck on it. Genesis 1 refers to water above this vault (an idea no doubt borrowed from the Babylonian cosmology, which pictured the Earth as a flat disk inside a cosmic bubble in a cosmic sea). The Bible says little about the shape of the Earth, referring in one place to the "circle" of the Earth (a disk shape), and in another place to the "four corners" of the Earth (a rectangular surface shape). In one of the Gospels, the Devil tempted Jesus by taking him up a mountain where he could see "all the kingdoms of the world" (no further info on this remarkable mountain). This would only be possible if the Earth was flat.

Inaccurate post - e.g. "vault?" Satan gave Jesus a vision. What are the definitions of Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22?

The current water cycle is stated simply here:

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the winter torrents+ are going forth to the sea,+ yet the sea itself is not full.+ To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth.+

See:

Creation Says, “They Are Inexcusable” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

You haven't studied your Bible'ology.
Genesis 1:6-8 6And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Genesis 1:20 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky."

Ecclesiastes 1:7 says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground.

We're still left with nothing in the Bible describing the water cycle (evapotranspiration). The water going to sea describes rivers. Nothing really godly about water flowing downstream. Evapotranspiration is the process of evaporation, condensation in the atmosphere, cooling and rainfall. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells us nothing of that.

Job 38:22 says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses.

"Riv" means vault?
You better switch dictionaries.
"Riv" is a separation that does not necessarily indicate a complete separation.

I’m not clear you understand what you’re replying to.

Oh, I do.
You are an atheist...I don't care.
You mangle Hebrew...I care.
You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The fact is that you are filled with hate and have never bothered to inquire.

I "mangled" nothing. You need to control your anger and frustration

Richard Dawkins - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

See your hero.
He mentions verses that don't exist.
Why?
It's his job.

And he knows far more than you know.

 

[mamooth]

You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The ancient Hebrews didn't know. That would be why they thought the world looked like this:

Later biblical authors were no doubt aware of a round earth. And I don't fault them for using metaphors like "the four corners of the earth". But being that I'm consistent, I also recognize the same sorts of metaphors are being used here proof that the bible is scientific, when that's clearly not the case. They're just metaphors, and claims of the scientific bible are nonsense.

 

[Indeependent]

You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The ancient Hebrews didn't know. That would be why they thought the world looked like this:

Later biblical authors were no doubt aware of a round earth. And I don't fault them for using metaphors like "the four corners of the earth". But being that I'm consistent, I also recognize the same sorts of metaphors are being used here proof that the bible is scientific, when that's clearly not the case. They're just metaphors, and claims of the scientific bible are nonsense.

I see you haven't been doing your daf yomi...
That's your problem, not mine.

 

[ding]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

 

[Indeependent]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

Where's the water? Its still here! What you are missing is early earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature when Genesis 1:2 was occurring. Not to mention what God's spirit was doing going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure. The boiling point of water is much higher under great pressure.

The amount of carbon in earth's crustal carbonates is over 64 million petagrams as Britannica has stated. That is roughly the same amount as the carbon in Venus' atmosphere - what is the air pressure on the surface of Venus?

Remember, earth's crustal carbonates were deposited by the geologic carbon cycle which removes CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere as CO3 (carbonate) ions and combines it with Sodium (Na), Potassium (K) and Calcium (Ca) ions to form carbonates.

See:

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle

Evolution of the atmosphere - Biological Carbon Cycle: The biological processes of photosynthesis and respiration mediate the exchange of carbon between the atmosphere or hydrosphere and the biosphere, In these reactions, CH2O crudely represents organic material, the biomass of bacteria...

www.britannica.com

I will post more on this in my next post.

I missed the parts where Genesis provides a description of the earth's atmosphere and a more precise estimate of early earth's temperature.

Could you elaborate on God's spirit going to and fro over earth's hot primordial waters in darkness and under great atmospheric pressure?

BTW, Genesis 2:5-6 contradicts the water cycle you described.

Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began. I did elaborate concerning what I think Genesis 1:2 is referring to.

So, what do you believe early earth's atmospheric content was? And how do you think earth accreted its water?

If Genesis 2:5,6 is way before the current water cycle began, how many water cycles are there? Where in the Bible are we given a description of evapotranspiration?

The problems with Biblical cosmology are profound. In several places in the Bible, the sky is referred to as a vault, with the stars stuck on it. Genesis 1 refers to water above this vault (an idea no doubt borrowed from the Babylonian cosmology, which pictured the Earth as a flat disk inside a cosmic bubble in a cosmic sea). The Bible says little about the shape of the Earth, referring in one place to the "circle" of the Earth (a disk shape), and in another place to the "four corners" of the Earth (a rectangular surface shape). In one of the Gospels, the Devil tempted Jesus by taking him up a mountain where he could see "all the kingdoms of the world" (no further info on this remarkable mountain). This would only be possible if the Earth was flat.

Inaccurate post - e.g. "vault?" Satan gave Jesus a vision. What are the definitions of Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22?

The current water cycle is stated simply here:

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the winter torrents+ are going forth to the sea,+ yet the sea itself is not full.+ To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth.+

See:

Creation Says, “They Are Inexcusable” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

You haven't studied your Bible'ology.
Genesis 1:6-8 6And God said, "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water." 7So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God called the vault "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Genesis 1:20 20And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky."

Ecclesiastes 1:7 says that water returns to the source of streams; it does not say how. It was once believed that the water returned underground.

We're still left with nothing in the Bible describing the water cycle (evapotranspiration). The water going to sea describes rivers. Nothing really godly about water flowing downstream. Evapotranspiration is the process of evaporation, condensation in the atmosphere, cooling and rainfall. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells us nothing of that.

Job 38:22 says that snow and hail are kept in storehouses.

"Riv" means vault?
You better switch dictionaries.
"Riv" is a separation that does not necessarily indicate a complete separation.

I’m not clear you understand what you’re replying to.

Oh, I do.
You are an atheist...I don't care.
You mangle Hebrew...I care.
You state that the Jews and Romans didn't know the earth was a globe...I care.

The fact is that you are filled with hate and have never bothered to inquire.

I "mangled" nothing. You need to control your anger and frustration

Jewish commentaries on the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here you go...
All the answers you are looking for.
I know you won't bother.
Either buy the books or find the commentaries online.
A tidbit on these gentlemen...
Most were scientists, MDs, financiers, etc...
and their advice was, and is, sought out by Kings, leading scientists, and political leaders.

 

[BreezeWood]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

 

[ding]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

 

[BreezeWood]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

I understand you very well.

.
proof coming from a makebeliever of a forged religion the symptoms of an overly stretched imagination. too bad the clinicians are unable to take appointments during the pandemic.

 

[ding]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

I understand you very well.

.
proof coming from a makebeliever of a forged religion the symptoms of an overly stretched imagination. too bad the clinicians are unable to take appointments during the pandemic.

Thanks for not disappointing my understanding.

 

[ding]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

I understand you very well.

.
proof coming from a makebeliever of a forged religion the symptoms of an overly stretched imagination. too bad the clinicians are unable to take appointments during the pandemic.

^Accuses Christians of persecution while persecuting Christians.

Doesn't get irony.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Haha, what a bunch of contrived, retro fitted horseshit.

 

[BreezeWood]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

I understand you very well.

.
proof coming from a makebeliever of a forged religion the symptoms of an overly stretched imagination. too bad the clinicians are unable to take appointments during the pandemic.

^Accuses Christians of persecution while persecuting Christians.

Doesn't get irony.

^Accuses Christians of persecution while persecuting Christians.

Doesn't get irony.

.
- persecution and victimization of the innocent. to be exact.

you seem to have a stuttering issue, bing is it just on the internet or are you as compulsive in real life ... the latter, purely rhetorical.

accusation implies without proof, an obvious error as provided by the uninterrupted recorded history of all three forged desert religions, christianity since its creation in the 4th century ...

and as bing proves, unrepentant each and everyone of them.

 

[ding]

Genesis 1

Fact...Every scientist on YouTube, when asked where the first piece of matter came about, always answers, "It's almost as though a god created it"

Hahahaha


Dude.

That is not a "fact". You literally just pulled that right out of your ass.

How many lectures on this subject and how many YouTube videos have you watched where someone asked this question.
It's a simple question...answer it.

I am not your assistant. Tell us the lie about "almost all" of the scientists again. That was a good one.

Wow!
You haven't changed a bit in the last year.
Tell us again from which University you received your Science Degree.

Irrelevant.

This is how you frauds always act when you are caught in a silly lie. Ding, you, this newtonian fellow...all operating from the same charlatan playbook...

I didn't think Indeependent or Ding were quoting from the book "The Mystery of Life's Origin - reassessing current theories" by Charles B. Thaxton Walter L. Bradley Roger L. Olsen:

https://www.krusch.com/books/evolution/Mystery_of_Lifes_Origin.pdf

So, do you disagree with any of the evidence from chemistry presented in that book?

Yes, the entire book is a verbose, beguiling attempt at reiteration of hoyle's fallacy. Which is itself just a tired reiteration of zeno's paradoxes. These mysteries vanished when we learned how to sum infinite series. But the specious reasoning at it's heart did not, and clearly it still persists inside religious circles, just like other archaic, vestigial philosophy from the bronze age. But i am sure the people at the fraud clearinghouse Discovery Institute are quite amazed and beguiled. The global scientific community? Not so much.

Say what???

Job 26:7 is really remarkable because most people believed earth was supported by something while the verse says Earth is hung upon nothing in empty space.

An example is the beliefs about Atlas (not Rand McNally's) - that Earth rested on the shoulders of Atlas:

The Bible—A Reliable Source of Truth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"About 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) This differed greatly from the myths that described the earth as floating on water or being carried by a giant tortoise. Some 1,100 years after the book of Job was written, people continued to believe that the earth could not just hang in midair; it had to have something to rest upon. Only three hundred years ago, in 1687, Isaac Newton published his work on gravity and explained that the earth is held in orbit by an invisible force. This scientific milestone confirmed what the Bible had stated more than 3,000 years earlier!"

How Science Affects Your Life — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"How the earth is suspended

The Bible describes the earth as suspended “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) There is no mention of our planet resting on the shoulders of a giant or on the backs of elephants that stand on a turtle, as some popular myths of ancient times had it. Rather, the Bible leaves the door open to scientific discovery. In time, Nicolaus Copernicus and Johannes Kepler described how the planets move around the sun driven by an invisible force. Isaac Newton later showed how gravitation governs the movement of all objects in space."

Ummmm, lets be honest, here. The Bible is not 3,500 years old. Job is a part of Hebrew scripture, the Tanakh, which was stolen by Christianity and made a part of the Christian Bible.

The Bible contains 66 books (depending on how they are counted) with different writers and different dates of writing spanning about 1600 years. The book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible - written by Moses about the same time as the written Torah/Pentateuch about 1513 BCE.

Why do you say the Hebrew Scriptures were stolen by Christianity? Jesus was a Jew and the only Bible he quoted was the Hebrew Scriptures - he did not steal the Hebrew Scriptures!

Tanach was kidnapped and raped by the early self-hating Jews.
Take a year or two to read the Torah and this will be obvious.
But you won't.

See my thread on Genesis - we are going pretty slow. When I joined our ministry school in 1958 we were on the book of Job. We have read and studied the entire Bible in our assigned Bible reading many times since then - this time we are actually going quite slowly.

Btw - no one ever graduates that school - we just keep learning!

Can you document what you are referring to?

The document is there...it's called the verses.

Tanach is impossible to read without going to the yeshiva called Gemara.
The English translations are purposefully horrendous...
No Jew from the moment of the completion of the Septuagint could read it and believe for a second that it was faithful because each verse can be read in an overwhelming number of ways and the Genesis 1:1 is completely wrong.

The closet you will get is from the Pritzger Edition Zohar available from Amazon.
When I first read it many years ago I thought I got ripped off.
Then I started learning Hebrew and realized the Artscroll is sort of a joke...to much catering to the King James Crowd.

Genesis 1:1 is accurate scientifically - the universe had a beginning contrary to what Aristotle taught and many believed for centuries.

You don't need any other book to read the Hebrew Scriptures in Hebrew, or in any good Hebrew-English interlinear.

It's a mistake to suggest that there is anything scientifically accurate about Genesis. A common mistake of religionists is to presume their holy texts are science journals.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, disagrees with you.

He told The Times of Israel, this discovery “isn’t going to make anyone who wasn’t a believer in God into one, or vice versa, but one thing the announcement does do is make it clear that the universe had a definite starting point — a creation — as described in the Book of Genesis,” said Aviezer. “To deny this now is to deny scientific fact.”

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

“It’s an example of Divine irony that it took atheistic scientists like [Nobel laureate Paul] Dirac and all the others to point out the truth of the Torah. At this point I think we can say that creation is a scientific fact.”

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly.

In the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

.
the jew the christian and jehova witness - who's kidding who.

primordial Earth ...

View attachment 333006

10 billion years after "the beginning" - other than the book of forgeries, where's the water -

what water, howabout it newtonian ... is it "holy water".

Thank you for the research ding! .

.
doesn't take a whole lot to make some people happy or slightly intoxicated, the coincidental in depth research by - bing.

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?
Are you retarded?

The Big Bang could not have eventually produced H2O?

.
certainly, within the evolutionary time table - far from the beginning - BB

and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

that water(s) ... where is that indeepedent.

How much time elapsed between the Big Bang and the 1st period of mixture followed by clarity.
Oh, I get it...You don't know Hebrew so you're reading the King James Version.
Look up the Hebrew for the "Mixed Multitude" that left Egypt with the Children of Israel.
You know how to say "Mixed Multitude" in Hebrew?
Of course you don't...Eruv (Mixture) Rav (Multitude).
Guess how to say Evening and Morning in Hebrew?
Erev (mixture) V'Boker (clarity).
Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

I also like the fact that you make believe that you believe God can create a universe but can't cool down unbearable heat in an instant.

So tell us, can God create a universe in a moment?

Blame the Greeks and Romans for the bad translation.

the translation of what independent - the religion of antiquity is but a few words in length - that is all there is - to the religion - believe your story all you want where really has it gotten you.

- no doubt however long it took the moment for creation was spontaneous.

500 words that you don't know.
For a religion of antiquity, we Jews built a little US in a rather hostile region in 72 years.
Not bad for backwards people, huh?

500 words that you don't know.

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

the religion of antiquity is six words long - the triumph of good vs evil - precribed by the Almighty in no uncertain terms - - spoken in any language will remain the same - you have abandoned that religion for your idolatrous books. idols.

Is that the secular humanist’s anthem?

.
is there anything about the religion of antiquity that includes a messiah, sinner.

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

Then God said: “Let there be an expanse+ between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.”+ 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse.+ And it was so.

.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

those waters ...

Did you notice at the end of Devarim that God told Moshe he was correct for smashing the Tablets?
The Tablets were never meant for fallible humans.

.
then why are they in your book - moses is a liar - from the beginning to the end. you also have no idea what they were and have substituted your own - obviously where your religion abandoned the true religion for your own.

Fraud says what?

Fraud says what?

your obsession with socialism is unhealthy.

.
just curious, what did you not comprehend ...

I understand you very well.

I understand you very well.

.
proof coming from a makebeliever of a forged religion the symptoms of an overly stretched imagination. too bad the clinicians are unable to take appointments during the pandemic.

^Accuses Christians of persecution while persecuting Christians.

Doesn't get irony.

^Accuses Christians of persecution while persecuting Christians.

Doesn't get irony.

.
- persecution and victimization of the innocent. to be exact.

you seem to have a stuttering issue, bing is it just on the internet or are you as compulsive in real life ... the latter, purely rhetorical.

accusation implies without proof, an obvious error as provided by the uninterrupted recorded history of all three forged desert religions, christianity since its creation in the 4th century ...

View attachment 333730

and as bing proves, unrepentant each and everyone of them.

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over your aggression towards Christians.

Do you need some fire starter?

 

[luchitociencia]

You're not going to like this answer: "Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent." Psalm 104:2

That is a song. A song express metaphoric sentences.

True - compare Isaiah 40:22,26 which not only refers to the expansion/stretching out of the heavens but also links the existence of stars (v.26) to God's power (Hebrew singular koach) and dynamic energy (Hebrew plural ohnim). It is therefore to be expected that plural forms of God's energy are involved with the expansion rate of our universe. Also, since God is invisible it comes as no surprise (to me) that 2 forms of energy involved, gravity and dark energy, are invisible.

No doubt that you ignore WHY those are invisible.

Such an ignorance is making you to invent disparate and good for nothing hypothesis.

Concerning 'tent' it should be noted that the tent of meeting/tabernacle in Scripture is geometrically described as a rectangular prism wherein only 2 dimensions of the relatively flat tent cloths are specified. This may be a hint to how the singularity at the so-called Big Bang was formed since the corner points of the intersection of these tentcloths have no dimensions (reminds me of a singularity).

The description omits lots of information. Hello?

Did they use screws, bolts, or other methods to assemble and disassemble such tent to move it from here to there? No.

Then, because the method of construction to such a portable construction is not mentioned you are going to deduce that such is an indication they resemble how gravity works or similar nonsense?

Your imagination is an offense to the biblical narrative.

Also, these tentcloths were relatively flat which is a hint that our universe is 'flat' as many scientists are coming to believe. Quite in contrast with the earth being round (Hebrew chuwg in verse 22 = circle in 2 dimensions, sphere in 3 dimensions).

You are writing peanuts. Just follow the instructions of the building of the tent. Lets use the drawing made by many who followed the instructions given. (from YouTube)

Had the tabernacle tent cloths two or three dimensions?

Three dimensions, of course.

Let me give you a good example which will discard your vain approach.

The piece of paper you use when you print documents usually is 11" x 8.5" x 0.002" or 11" x 8.5" x 0.004"

See?

Three dimensions.

You really enjoy a fantastic infantile imagination.

 

[luchitociencia]

How convenient, really. When the authors of the Bibles write 7 days and that becomes an inconvenient timeframe, just change "days" to mean 7,000 years or whatever timeframe fits the fable.

Try to understand the Hebrew and how it used. Today, we are familiar with the expression, "In my grandfather's day..." Certainly no one takes that to mean their grandfather lived one day.

It seems you need to have a discussion of Biblical references to what a day means with James Bond. Per post 859, one (or both) of you are wrong.

What a shame the Gods didn't bother to make things clear. That's quite a paradox. Your eternal soul is at stake here and the Gods neglected to make their message understandable.

It seems to me that you need to read the dictionaries. The context and cross references make the definitions in Genesis clear - you clearly do not care to research this.

I do not have an eternal soul, btw. See Ezekiel 18:4,20. Why do you think I have an immortal soul????

That is your great mistake.

The approach made by the other poster saying "Try to understand the Hebrew and how it used. Today, we are familiar with the expression, "In my grandfather's day..." Certainly no one takes that to mean their grandfather lived one day." is certainly more accurate than your interpretations based in fixed definitions.

You are insulting the biblical scriptures by saying ancient Hebrew lacks of expressions.

I guess in your poor understanding, you think the biblical narration is a legal document where the sentences must narrate events and facts with pure technically legal language.

Biblical Hebrew is like a friend talking to you telling you lots of things. This friend will use lots of expressions for you to catch up with his story.

 

[luchitociencia]

Kaballah...
I will hopefully have the time to break the words out.
I have actually done this by spending about 20 or so hours with the first 7 words after our last discussion.
The "secret" is that every Hebrew words has a 2 letter root, not a 3 letter root.

Go and tell about it to Samsom Raphael Hirsch.

B'Rayshis, for instance, means "Within The Pristine".
Rayshis does not mean "In the beginning" in any way whatsoever, and a careful study of the ever elusive Midrash keeps defining Rayshis as a "Pristine" fruit or crop.

I can interpret it as "when it was opened" and my interpretation is as valid as "in the beginning".

Just stick with the "beginning" interpretation which fits OK anyway.

B means within something's essence...
This is the concept of Tzimtzum...cause a "gap", so to speak within one's own essence to allow for something else to exist.
The attribute within the sfree-irote that expresses this "giving to another" is G'dow-lah, erroneously translated outside of Kabbalah as "Physically Big".

It is clear that God is the one "giving to another". The structure of the whole text describes it that way.

For instance, when God tell Avraham he will become a Great (Gah-dole) Nation, Gos doesn't mean large in number or able to kick some {insert your own word here), it means that Avraham's descendants will have room for the rest of the world to survive and thrive.
That's why Jews are generally identified with charities.

Identified with charities because such is the way to make easy money, evade tax, and avoid IRS audits.

Come on, you are talking peanuts here.

"The Pristine" is the unknowable Creator who's lack of duplicity is so perfect that it's creation cannot comprehend it's existence in any manner whatsoever.
No creation falls outside of Pristine's Created Laws of Physics...
Which automatically infers movement and give and take.

And here you finally are going in the right path.

The dictionaries came about due to the Septuagint and, later on, the KJV.
Prior to that, no Jew ever learned in any language but Hebrew and Aramaic, which means that Aramaic is a divine language that has an intrinsic role to play in existence.

When is about languages, England English is the mother language and American English is the daughter language. While mother language pronounces Quarter with "t" on the other hand the daughter language pronounces is as "Quarer".

Besides this common observation between Hebrew and Aramaic, there are also other obvious influences like the inclusion of other languages which caused Aramaic to have their own identity and having different meanings for their hybrid language.

I typed that pretty fast so it may be messy.

This is how research works: trial and error (with some mess from time to time), same as scientific approaches. I think your initiative is great.

I know it hurts when people don't use the dictionaries.
It used to annoy me.
But I spent the last six years in the Torah portion cycle and a lot of the English, which I relied on heavily, started to not make any sense in light of the explanations from the sages.

Best way to start is to ignore the traditional interpretation, to make your own, and compare.

The first verse translation also leave out the Hebrew word "et", which is mentioned twice, and God, that English translation sucks!
"Et" is a huge word.

You have two scenarios.

You make lemonade with water, lemon juice and sugar.

The first scenario is to decipher the meaning of lemonade by using the ingredients alone.

The second scenario is deciphering the method used to make lemonade using those ingredients.

From here, you know there are two other factors, which are the physical (stirring) and the chemical (compounds mixtures) which gave as a result a NEW compound.

Then, you must realize that lemonade is not separate water, lemon and sugar, but a new compound.

This is like conception. The Zygote is no more the sperm and the egg but a totally different being.

Then, defining words by their roots is fine, that is a correct approach, but you simply can't make lots of definitions to the formed word in base of the definition of each letter which formed it.

Such, excuse me but... such is lunacies.

Mysticism is praised because is a good entertainment. But mysticism is way from the narration, mysticism is like Christmas lights in the streets, with a meaning other than the remembrance of the birth of a famous historical person. Celebrating in the wrong date, using the wrong name of the individual, etc.

When a word is formed, the meaning of each letter of that word have been distorted, like atoms forming molecules, sharing electrons, those atoms are no more their original status.

Hope your research to bring better approaches, but you won't go far if you stick with the letter by letter own definitions giving bunches of meaning to the formed word.