Do you support abolishing the Federal Dept of Education?

[Foxfyre]

And the ones that can't move? What about them?

Oh wait, they're poor, so you don't care about them.

They can home school.

Your compassion knows no ends.

That's certainly what a lot of parents around here do. We have an AWANA group of almost 500 kids who meet regularly for activities at our church--a large percentage of them are not members of our church--but they are an amazing group of kids. And almost all are homeschooled. That is just one of several AWANA groups in our areas. The Albuquerque school system is so deficient in so many of the schools that the parents who for whatever reason do not want to or can't leave choose to go that route. The kids benefit enormously.

As the Albuquerque Public School District is one of the largest in the country, this is not substantially affecting it yet. But if you pull enough kids out of any school to start affecting its funding, the school will wake up and pay attention. And start correcting some things.

Hopefully we will return to a time when the public schools provided as good an education as you could get anywhere. That will require getting the federal government out of it.

 

[DontBeStupid]

My questions were a direct responce to your quotes, or are you having trouble remembering your position on this topic?

(my phone is crappy when using the "quote funchion" it formats quite badly)

Your questions were:

why I should care about the rest of the world education systems

why you think biology and science can not coexist with religion

First off, I am assuming you mean these "questions". I'm guessing that due to them starting with "why" but, you know, with no question mark at the end you could have been making some weird statement. Anyway, if you meant some other "questions" let me know.

1) You should care only if you want America to be competitive with the rest of the world.
2) I have no idea why you think I said this. I didn't. I said nothing close to it. I firmly believe Science and Religion can co-exist in public schools. It's the Right that thinks they can't.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Home schooled children almost always rank higher in math and science then their public or private school counterparts ... Of course your depth of knowledge on the subject would suggest that you knew this and are simply ignoring the facts

I do know this and I also happen to know why.

And it's not due to them simply being home schooled.

 

[Firehorse]

Exactly! No need for Biology or any Science classes! If you don't understand something in the world, meh, God made it happen! If you get sick or injured, meh, pray it away!

Imagine the spending cuts!

Rick Perry would be proud.

could have sworn that was you that said that ... My bad

 

[Firehorse]

Not caring about the rest of the world school systems and not caring about how we rank in relation to other countries systems are two different things

 

[Firehorse]

If I build a better race car, I don't care what other racers are driving

 

[DontBeStupid]

If I build a better race car, I don't care what other racers are driving

And that is why you would fail.

 

[freedombecki]

Schools in this nation began when churches offered their spacious buildings to be used during the week for the schooling of young children until they had sufficient knowledge to live life well; to govern; and to engage a community to benefit others in the region, the state, and the greater world. That's what parents wanted for their children.

Nowadays, we have websites showing 200 teachers a year being sentenced to jail terms for statutory rapes of the minor children they are teaching, not to mention physical or mental abuse. For every one that gets a sentence, just like any other crime, there are likely 50-100 who didn't get caught.

Children ignore parents and other people because they are busy texting their will upon their friends in secret. Some children actually attack anyone interrupting this bad habit.

The Columbine School murders in Colorado happened as a result of two otherwise normal boys becoming fascinated with power crimes over other people, and they learned how to control the group that bullied them and others with weaponry and bomb-making equipment. They murdered 13 people before committing suicide, bringing the day's horror to 15. Such an event is likely not to happen, but they do happen, and none of us has any control over such a thing unless we are fit, armed, trained security personnel.

Violence in Schools

 

[francoHFW]

Unfortunately, your race car suqs...and you don't even know it...

 

[Flopper]

You can probably find about 10,000 posts and articles about why we don't need a Dept of Educations at the federal level. Here's one that says we definitely do need one.

There needs to be some commonality between the educational system in Maine and Mississippi. Employers and colleges expect it.

Much of what the DOE does is to monitor educational programs to determine what works, then to encourage local schools systems throughout the country via grants to pickup these programs and try them in their schools. Much of 69 billion dollars in the DOE budget goes to local school districts.

State DOE's and local school districts are very dependent on federal leadership in the development of new programs and curriculum. You need only look at your local school district and state DOE to see that without a federal Dept of Education costs would increase in every state and local school district.

 

[Charles_Main]

Much of what the DOE does is to monitor educational programs to determine what works, then to encourage local schools systems throughout the country via grants to pickup these programs and try them in their schools. Much of 69 billion dollars in the DOE budget goes to local school districts.

First off judging by our kids Test results I think we can say the DOE sucks ASS at "determining what works". The education level of our graduating students has steadily declined since the DOE came into Existence 40 Plus Years ago.

Second, Tied to the Billions of dollars the DOE hands out to states are All sorts of Mandates, and Regulations and strings that force the states to spend about 1.25 for every dollar they get in Federal Funds.

So sorry dude that dog don't hunt. They do not fund our schools, they give them money with strings attached that force them to spend more then they get, and impose standards and Techniques that have led to a decline in the quality of Education our students get, not an Improvement.

So both the basic Ideas of your Pro DOE post are both BS.

The only valid thing you said is that we need some uniformity among the states. However that can be achieved through means other than a massive Federal Bureaucracy. Especially when said Bureaucracy is failing so miserably at just about everything it does.

 

[Flopper]

Schools in this nation began when churches offered their spacious buildings to be used during the week for the schooling of young children until they had sufficient knowledge to live life well; to govern; and to engage a community to benefit others in the region, the state, and the greater world. That's what parents wanted for their children.

Nowadays, we have websites showing 200 teachers a year being sentenced to jail terms for statutory rapes of the minor children they are teaching, not to mention physical or mental abuse. For every one that gets a sentence, just like any other crime, there are likely 50-100 who didn't get caught.

Children ignore parents and other people because they are busy texting their will upon their friends in secret. Some children actually attack anyone interrupting this bad habit.

The Columbine School murders in Colorado happened as a result of two otherwise normal boys becoming fascinated with power crimes over other people, and they learned how to control the group that bullied them and others with weaponry and bomb-making equipment. They murdered 13 people before committing suicide, bringing the day's horror to 15. Such an event is likely not to happen, but they do happen, and none of us has any control over such a thing unless we are fit, armed, trained security personnel.

Violence in Schools

Yeah, just what country needs, one room schools houses, classes taught in churches, and a literacy rate of 50%.

 

[flacaltenn]

You can probably find about 10,000 posts and articles about why we don't need a Dept of Educations at the federal level. Here's one that says we definitely do need one.

There needs to be some commonality between the educational system in Maine and Mississippi. Employers and colleges expect it.

Much of what the DOE does is to monitor educational programs to determine what works, then to encourage local schools systems throughout the country via grants to pickup these programs and try them in their schools. Much of 69 billion dollars in the DOE budget goes to local school districts.

State DOE's and local school districts are very dependent on federal leadership in the development of new programs and curriculum. You need only look at your local school district and state DOE to see that without a federal Dept of Education costs would increase in every state and local school district.

I'm not suggesting that the funding go away. Since DC drains so much money from the states, they can afford to block grant back funds. I just want the meddling to go away..

Do you support National Assessment tests? They why was there screaming and whining about NCLB testing? If the FEDs can't MEASURE -- then the FEDS can't help.. Simple logic Flopper...

And the statement that "local school districts are very dependent on federal leadership in the development of new programs and curriculum" is blatantly false. States are very proud of THEIR top heavy bureaucracies that create SPECIAL CALIFORNIA versions of Algebra 2.. As tho the premises contained in Algebra 2 have changed since 1980 or there is a different Algebra 2 based on abacuses used in Oregon...

 

[Firehorse]

As far as the race car goes. If it's better, how would it fail? If you mean the people running the better system would make it fail then it's a simple matter of firing the incompitent.

If the race car suqs, then it will be shown on the track, in which case I trash it and get a better one, instead of continueing to throw bad money into a failed race car

are these paralells too hard to follow?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Fuck pell grants and student loans. They should be ABOLISHED.

 

[jgarden]

Name one other modern nation in the world that doesn't have its own department of education.

Education is a national priority - the quality of one's education, like health, is far too inportant to be totally dependent on the financial resources of the individual state in which you happen to live.

 

[Firehorse]

Name one other modern nation in the world that doesn't have its own department of education.

Education is a national priority - the quality of one's education, like health, is far too inportant to be totally dependent on the financial resources of the individual state in which you happen to live.

The object is not to be like everyone else. It's to be better then everyone else. The system we have is broken, we are ranked at or near the bottom in many catagories in the eductation of our youth (with the exception of money spent per child) ... The DOE is broken, it's not working

It's not working to the level that "tweeking" it isn't enough. We need either a complete overhaul or toss it in favor of something else. If we are already at the bottom of the rankings, then whatever it is replaced with would either be an improvement or a break even

We are throwing more and more good money into a bad system that by every measuring stick is not working. In times of tightening of the purse strings, the DOE with it's low performace record has got to become more streamlined and effect or be tossed completely in favor of something more steamlibed and effect.

As in American, I can handle keeping an education system that ranks us in the top three with a little bit of tweeking, but last place or near it? .... Totally unacceptable.

 

[freedombecki]

Schools in this nation began when churches offered their spacious buildings to be used during the week for the schooling of young children until they had sufficient knowledge to live life well; to govern; and to engage a community to benefit others in the region, the state, and the greater world. That's what parents wanted for their children.

Nowadays, we have websites showing 200 teachers a year being sentenced to jail terms for statutory rapes of the minor children they are teaching, not to mention physical or mental abuse. For every one that gets a sentence, just like any other crime, there are likely 50-100 who didn't get caught.

Children ignore parents and other people because they are busy texting their will upon their friends in secret. Some children actually attack anyone interrupting this bad habit.

The Columbine School murders in Colorado happened as a result of two otherwise normal boys becoming fascinated with power crimes over other people, and they learned how to control the group that bullied them and others with weaponry and bomb-making equipment. They murdered 13 people before committing suicide, bringing the day's horror to 15. Such an event is likely not to happen, but they do happen, and none of us has any control over such a thing unless we are fit, armed, trained security personnel.

Violence in Schools

Yeah, just what country needs, one room schools houses, classes taught in churches, and a literacy rate of 50%.

It didn't hurt Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, Patrick Henry, Paul Revere, or Benjamin Franklin one bit.

 

[freedombecki]

Fuck pell grants and student loans. They should be ABOLISHED.

They already are for white men, aren't they.

 

[Samson]

You can probably find about 10,000 posts and articles about why we don't need a Dept of Educations at the federal level. Here's one that says we definitely do need one.

There needs to be some commonality between the educational system in Maine and Mississippi. Employers and colleges expect it.

Much of what the DOE does is to monitor educational programs to determine what works, then to encourage local schools systems throughout the country via grants to pickup these programs and try them in their schools. Much of 69 billion dollars in the DOE budget goes to local school districts.

State DOE's and local school districts are very dependent on federal leadership in the development of new programs and curriculum. You need only look at your local school district and state DOE to see that without a federal Dept of Education costs would increase in every state and local school district.

Your first error is assuming there would be no "commonality" between the state's education systems WITHOUT the DOE.

Do you have any evidence that there was a vast difference between states' education BEFORE the DOE? Frankly, I doubt it. Why? Because much of the DOE's efforts, and the efforts of all Federal Depts., is to justify their own budgets to congress. A DOE study comparing educational effectiveness before and after the creation of the DOE would not serve this primary objective.

Your second erroneous assumption is that the DOE pays for every federally mandated educational "reform." They pay nothing for integrating districts, little for NCLB, and no where near the costs of IDEA. Their only purpose is to use Title I funding as a carrot, and withholding it as a stick, to force districts to pay for programs having nothing to do with local concerns.

Your third preposterous statement is that states are "very dependent on federal leadership." The only states that "depend" on federal aid are those who have a majority of local districts that are failing DESPITE three decades of federal advice.