Do you have a graduate degree?

[Sunshine]

Poll so far suggests, people with brains use them to make money.

Why else would you spend the time and money to go to school?

I went because I wanted to be educated.

So did I, so did many. But when my husband died, my motive changed. And I was constantly amazed at how 'getting an education' changed to 'getting out of school.' For most.

 

[editec]

Does seem like that would be a BA, doesn't it?

History and Literature = BA.

Unless you've elected to get a BS in Ed majoring in those subject, lass.

The difference between my BS and a BA with those majors is that the BA takes 4 foreign languages and the BS takes 3 ED courses.

That means, Sunshine, that I got to take one more course in history than I might otherwise have taken had I gone for my BA.

 

[Foxfyre]

hey i was a lowly Letter Carrier ( with a Masters in Postology) and i was making more money than people with College Degrees who lived on the route.....

An education does increase a person's chances to work in higher paying professions but is not a guarantee of it. Some professions require higher degrees. But again, in my case, though I had the education, I did not have the certification - i.e. that diploma in hand - but employers have waived the certification to hire me for the last thirty years or so.

We wouldn't want the certification waived for medical doctors or certain other professions that require proof of completion of a prescribed course of study. But there is somebody on the bottom of every class at medical school too. And non certified personnel who know more medicine than some of those who graduate.

Probably all of us know at least one presumably very highly degreed person who is an absolute idiot. And at least one person with minimal formal schooling who has succeeded beyond all expectations. We do not need to scorn higher education and we can all learn from it. But it sure doesn't guarantee that we will be educated beings.

Some employers can do that. Not all. If you are going to practice as an NP you have to have the master's and the certification from one of the credentialing bodies like the ANCC. State law. Not a choice.

Yes. And that of course has limited my options now and then. But almost every single job I've held for the last 35 years or so has required at least a bachelor's degree and some a higher degree and I was hired, so lack of a formal diploma is not necessarily the kiss of death in all professions. There are employees who value education, know how, aptitude, and experience over the degree. I still wish I had the diploma though and, if I come into just a little bit of money, I expect to get it before I die.

 

[Ringel05]

Poll so far suggests, people with brains use them to make money.

Why else would you spend the time and money to go to school?

I went because I wanted to be educated.

Yup, I probably have more credit hours than most here yet I only have an Associates. Hell, got that by accident.

 

[Starlight]

Nobody said its a conspiracy. But as I posted earlier it is a fact that higher education in the USA tilts very left. The fact that conservatives who gravitate to a site like USMB have been able to see through the liberalism of their education--or managed to get through school before higher education was so infused with liberalism--does not change the fact that higher education has become a bastion of liberalism. Again I will refer you to my previous post.

It has been my observation that those who are liberal (by the modern definition for U.S. liberals) are generally much more susceptible to dynamics of group think and are less well equipped to articulate a rationale for their point of view. Those who think for themselves can can articulate a rationale for their point of view. The later group, though all individuals in it are not immune to group think, do tend to be mostly conservative according to the definition of modern American conservatism.

Americans who graduate from American colleges and universities these days are conservative in spite of the education they most likely got.

This article from the Liberal Washington Post agree's, Foxfyre, that the majority of college professors are liberal. There are later studies stating the same conclusion, don't have time to link to them right now.

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01

College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds (washingtonpost.com)

Yes I posted an excerpt from that same article with link earlier Starlight. And it was mostly ignored by our more leftist friends as your post probably will be too. I do tend to run on though which probably makes my posts more conducive to skip over without reading. You tend to be much more succinct which on message boards is a virtue.

But again, the article underscores again my opinion that those who make it out of college as conservatives these days do so in spite of the education they receive. And, again, in my opinion that is because they are able to think for themselves and are not so susceptible to group think.

Sorry I missed your article, Foxfyre. I have been doing that quite often. I think I have checked posts thoroughly, and find out, they have been posted before. Hope I don't get kicked out for post plagiarism. Time for an eye exam.

Here's another article and if someone has already posted it, my apologies.

Liberal College Professors
In a recent survey of the ideological persuasion of 1,643 full-time professors at 183 colleges and universities, three eminent scholars, Professors Robert Lichter of George Mason University and Stanley Rothman and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto, found that nearly three-quarters of college faculty call themselves liberal. In the study of classical languages and literature, the humanities, they counted 81 percent and in the social sciences 75 percent. Even among engineering faculty they found 51 percent and in business faculty 49 percent. But the greatest number of liberal professors taught in the departments of English literature, philosophy, political science, and religious studies where some 80 percent of professors called themselves liberal. At elite universities the ratios were even higher; according to the survey, 87 percent of faculty were liberal.

Sennholz.com - Hans F. Sennholz

 

[Sunshine]

Why else would you spend the time and money to go to school?

I went because I wanted to be educated.

Yup, I probably have more credit hours than most here yet I only have an Associates. Hell, got that by accident.

You've gotta watch those AD programs. Many of them can require enough hours to get a bachelor's somewhere else. It was that way where I taught Nursing in an AD program. The TN Board of Regents noticed and told us we had to cut out some of the hours. So we lopped off several things.

 

[Annie]

MsEd, type 75 certification. Administration/Leadership

The course of study was actually on differentiation and learning styles. While I found the theme informative and reinforcing of my personal philosophy of education, it did not prepare me for an administrative role. In education though, it's the degree, not the knowledge that tends to move folks along.

 

[Ringel05]

I went because I wanted to be educated.

Yup, I probably have more credit hours than most here yet I only have an Associates. Hell, got that by accident.

You've gotta watch those AD programs. Many of them can require enough hours to get a bachelor's somewhere else. It was that way where I taught Nursing in an AD program. The TN Board of Regents noticed and told us we had to cut out some of the hours. So we lopped off several things.

I was a professional student for twelve years, yeah I also worked during that time..... on occasion..... Wasn't interested in a piece of paper that told others I might have the knowledge they were looking for. Now the Government and most major employers want that piece of paper regardless of what the major or actual knowledge level is. It's the modern equivalent of a high school diploma.
What will be funny is when "higher education" becomes too expensive for most, the powers that be will have to go back to the HS diploma as the main criteria, maybe even a GED.

 

[Foxfyre]

This article from the Liberal Washington Post agree's, Foxfyre, that the majority of college professors are liberal. There are later studies stating the same conclusion, don't have time to link to them right now.

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01

College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds (washingtonpost.com)

Yes I posted an excerpt from that same article with link earlier Starlight. And it was mostly ignored by our more leftist friends as your post probably will be too. I do tend to run on though which probably makes my posts more conducive to skip over without reading. You tend to be much more succinct which on message boards is a virtue.

But again, the article underscores again my opinion that those who make it out of college as conservatives these days do so in spite of the education they receive. And, again, in my opinion that is because they are able to think for themselves and are not so susceptible to group think.

Sorry I missed your article, Foxfyre. I have been doing that quite often. I think I have checked posts thoroughly, and find out, they have been posted before. Hope I don't get kicked out for post plagiarism. Time for an eye exam.

Here's another article and if someone has already posted it, my apologies.

Liberal College Professors
In a recent survey of the ideological persuasion of 1,643 full-time professors at 183 colleges and universities, three eminent scholars, Professors Robert Lichter of George Mason University and Stanley Rothman and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto, found that nearly three-quarters of college faculty call themselves liberal. In the study of classical languages and literature, the humanities, they counted 81 percent and in the social sciences 75 percent. Even among engineering faculty they found 51 percent and in business faculty 49 percent. But the greatest number of liberal professors taught in the departments of English literature, philosophy, political science, and religious studies where some 80 percent of professors called themselves liberal. At elite universities the ratios were even higher; according to the survey, 87 percent of faculty were liberal.

Sennholz.com - Hans F. Sennholz

It isn't plagiarism if you post your source.

And no problem with missed posts. Sheesh if we are all gonna get gigged for not reading all posts, USMB will be a virtual wasteland. I tend to skip over long, overly wordy posts that are difficult to read just because I do this for fun that those posts require too much work. And because I am one who tends to be overly verbose at times, I'm sure others skip over my posts. No biggie.

(And I skip over a few posts of members who post only nonsense or assigned talking points or cut and paste sound bites, and absolutely don't even try to read the huge type, psychadelic ones. )

Those of us who finished most of our formal education before the 80's didn't get so brainwashed in liberal propaganda. But unfortunately it was a lot highly idealistic, liberal kids who grew up in the 60's who choose media or education for their careers and who have mentored those who followed them. Which explains the high percentage of liberalism in both the media and education.

It is accentuated via big government meddling.

Those of us who survived the system and are conservative are conservative in spite of it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have a BS majoring in history and literature..

He is full of BullShit.

 

[Foxfyre]

MsEd, type 75 certification. Administration/Leadership

The course of study was actually on differentiation and learning styles. While I found the theme informative and reinforcing of my personal philosophy of education, it did not prepare me for an administrative role. In education though, it's the degree, not the knowledge that tends to move folks along.

And in higher education, the degree isn't enough. Nor is being a talented, gifted teacher for those who want to learn. It is publish or perish. And because EVERYBODY has to do it, and everybody has to come up with something 'new', a lot of very strange and questionable stuff is produced from some very bogus research.

(I speak for those of us who have been research assistants after comparing notes with others.)

 

[Harry Dresden]

Just think how much the President of the NACL makes!

222 thousand......

 

[Unkotare]

Why else would you spend the time and money to go to school?

I went because I wanted to be educated.

Yup, I probably have more credit hours than most here yet I only have an Associates. Hell, got that by accident.

"By accident"?


Picked up the wrong bag at the bus station?

 

[Unkotare]

Just think how much the President of the NACL makes!

222 thousand......

...and that's why you got paid more than the market would likely have valued the work of a letter carrier (and why the USPS has never been a marvel of efficiency despite the impressive amount of volume they manage to move - usually to where it's supposed to get).

 

[Samson]

An excellent poll for culling out the minority opinion that education does not matter all that much.

Why? That's an elitist, fascist position to which I don't hold. The very nature of our economic system almost always separates the lazy and the uneducated from the winners.

Then what did you mean by "culling out?"

Read the bolded.

Yeah I read it before you bolded it.

Your original post is no less nonsensical.

YOU said: The excellent poll "culls out" a minority opinion.

Now I suppose you're saying you didn't mean that this was your opinion, but a statement of some other person's opinion on Planet Starkley?

Or perhaps you mean the poll is a manifestation of our economic system, and both somehow "separate the lazy from the winners?"

 

[Samson]

With certain exceptions which I have already named, I believe liberals influence higher education more. Only liberals are willing to settle for the pay one gets working in academia.

What exactly do we mean by "liberals influence higher education more?"

Are liberals ensuring that college sports become multi-million dollar enterprises?

Are liberals escalating the cost of education so mainly those with muli-million dollar loans can afford to attend?

Are liberals forcing employers to limit employment opportunities to only those with advanced degrees?

I just stated what I meant in terms of salaries for college profs. If you want to know about that other stuff, look at who sits on the boards of regents. Who are they? Probably conservatives, but they don't tell you what to teach, certainly they don't know enough to tell people in my professon what to teach. As to employment and advanced degrees. A person without an advanced degree is not qualified to do what I do and that is state law, not a board of regent or employer decision.

So, conservatives make sure that higher education has enough money to keep liberal professors employed, and they "don't know enough" to do otherwise?




Why would they do that?