Should we get rid of the Presidential Pardon

[wamose]

So you don't think its better to get 2 out of 3 judges to agree on clemency than it is to have a single person hand them out based on no criteria whatsoever?

I think that if we have the fair judicial system we proclaim to have, we should be able to live with their decisions. In most of these pardons, they favor rich people or friends. That pretty much means that justice has nothing to do with it. So, I think that if the person can't clear themselves in the appeals process, that's it. And if judges decide to sentence people based on their party or ideology, which are their rights to have, those judges should be arrested.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Maybe limit the amount of pardons each President can administer to two or three per 4-year term. Then require very good reasons for the pardon and announce them publicly. The buddy system is not just and it leaves the American people with a bad taste in their mouths. If common folks like you or I get busted for a crime ... we do the time. All of it.

 

[candycorn]

I think that if we have the fair judicial system we proclaim to have, we should be able to live with their decisions. In most of these pardons, they favor rich people or friends. That pretty much means that justice has nothing to do with it. So, I think that if the person can't clear themselves in the appeals process, that's it. And if judges decide to sentence people based on their party or ideology, which are their rights to have, those judges should be arrested.

Good analysis.

But I think you make the point on why we need some way to deliver pardons. "In most of these pardons...". That means that there are some where ordinary people receive justice via this track. The pardon should be reserved for miscarriages of justice. Thats it.

 

[berg80]

I asked the question earlier but this time I put in a poll. And for the sake of this poll, a pardon and clemency is being considered to be the same thing.

I say yes. Do so and replace it by a 3 judge panel. The panel would consist of judges selected by seniority.

-The Chief Justice
-The 3rd most senior Justice (who isn't the Chief Justice)
-The most junior Justice (who isn't the Chief Justice)

Give the panel total carte blanche to interview the petitioner, the judge of the trial who sentenced her or him, the prosecutor, the defense attorney, witnesses etc... Surrender all evidence to the panel for review. Give it a thorough scouring back and fourth under the intense glare of suspicion from the court. Then vote. If 2 out of 3 vote to pardon, they get a pardon. Have it take effect in 2032 or 2036 when nobody today knows what the make up of the court will be and nobody knows who the President will be.

Presidential behavior in this area by presidents of both major political parties has been abysmal and pardons are handed out to those who are well connected, clearly in the wrong, and family members like in the case of Joe Biden.

• The mission of the Office of the Pardon Attorney is to support second chances through clemency for individuals who have been convicted of federal offenses.
• The Pardon Attorney and staff are responsible for administering the executive clemency process, in accordance with longstanding federal regulations. We review and investigate applications for executive clemency that are submitted to the Department of Justice, and we make recommendations to grant or deny those applications based on the standards written in the Justice Manual.
• Thousands of clemency applications are submitted to the Office each year. Many come from people who are in prison and seeking a shorter prison sentence (known as a “commutation”). Others come from people who have completed their sentences and are seeking forgiveness for their offenses (known as a “pardon”).

About the Office

www.justice.gov

There actually is a process in place, or there was, designed to impartially review requests for pardons and make recommendations to the prez. As has been the case in so many areas it was broken by trump's overwhelming impulse for corruption in all things.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Whatever the panel's make up is, It needs to have ultimate subpoena power to scour the case that delivered the verdict of guilt from top to bottom. They can bring in the judge, the attorneys, witnesses, etc... Total access. I don't see what is wrong with having the Chief justice, the most junior justice and a third justice--lets say the 3rd most senior-- sit on the panel. The make-up of the panel will change with each appointment/retirement from the court. Those who think it will be partisan aren't thinking it through. Making it with people who know the law is paramount. 99% of these cases are not going to be political in nature anyway. Whatever it is; getting it out of the hands of one person is the point.

As for the the pre-finding of fact pardon, I sort of like it because it stops ridiculous witch-hunts before they start. That being said, I doubt you'd get any panel to agree to such a thing. So it would go bye-bye.

First it was Judges, now it's Justices.

I'm sorry I disagree with they very thought of the Supreme Court Justices being the pardon panel.

The current Justices receive 7,000-8,000 cases per year and they are overworked now. Add to that another 3,000-4,000 pardon/clemancy requests (which is what the White House received per year) and the kind of review that is requested just ain't happen'n.

I could see a panel of ex-Governors, someone that has already had to deal with pardon's at the state level being a possibility.

WW

 

[berg80]

AI Overview

Former Department of Justice Pardon Attorney Liz Oyer, who served from 2022 to early 2025, has described Donald Trump’s second-term pardon policies as "unprecedented" and damaging to the justice system. Oyer alleges that traditional DOJ vetting procedures were bypassed to favor the wealthy, well-connected, and politically loyal, setting an "alarming precedent".

Everything trump touches turns to shit.

 

[wamose]

Good analysis.

But I think you make the point on why we need some way to deliver pardons. "In most of these pardons...". That means that there are some where ordinary people receive justice via this track. The pardon should be reserved for miscarriages of justice. Thats it.

I agree. Maybe if the judges were made accountable for handing down poor, biased or unconstitutional sentences, they would confine their decisions to the laws and our constitution. If someone is found guilty because of some prosecutorial miscarriage, maybe that judge should be removed from the bench and investigated until his good, fair and constitutional intentions can be verified.

 

[j-mac]

So, you wasted $$$ on the Trump U. reading comprehension correspondence course, Q-NUT.

Walczak was sentenced to 18 months in prison, two years of supervised release, and was ordered to pay more than $4 million in restitution for willfully failing to pay over employment taxes and file individual income tax returns.

Walczak’s pardon application highlighted his mother’s political support of Trump and Republicans, reports said, with her activism even influencing his prosecution. The pardon relieves Walczak of all prison time and the $4 million in restitution.

Did your Trump phone arrive yet?

Oh what a dangerous guy…give us Hunter…

 

[my2¢]

It is possible that societal moods can change over time. Like if you got 60 years for trafficking a giant amount of pot in the 1970's...should you still be in prison for that given that it is legal in a lot of states and its been knocked down to a different drug class?

Such a pardon would be controversial, quite similar to Jimmy Carter's pardon of Vietnam draft dodgers.

Now with memory of Carter, something clicked concerning Confederate president Jefferson Davis. I'd stick with my response of doing away with pardons and handling things in manner concerning Jefferson Davis back in 1978 when a resolution was passed by both houses of Congress and then signed by Carter.

Link

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Oh what a dangerous guy…give us Hunter…

Your dear leader LOVES people not paying taxes and stealing from employees.
Trump has done it for well over 50 years.

 

[Anathema]

Yes, and get rid of clemency completely. Then again I think we need to totally disassemble our current judicial system and replace it with a far stricter, harsher and more brutal system altogether.

 

[j-mac]

Your dear leader LOVES people not paying taxes and stealing from employees.
Trump has done it for well over 50 years.

Yeah sure buddy…More made up nonsense from you ankle biters…

 

[candycorn]

Such a pardon would be controversial, quite similar to Jimmy Carter's pardon of Vietnam draft dodgers.

Now with memory of Carter, something clicked concerning Confederate president Jefferson Davis. I'd stick with my response of doing away with pardons and handling things in manner concerning Jefferson Davis back in 1978 when a resolution was passed by both houses of Congress and then signed by Carter.

View attachment 1261538​

Link

Well argued.

 

[candycorn]

• The mission of the Office of the Pardon Attorney is to support second chances through clemency for individuals who have been convicted of federal offenses.
• The Pardon Attorney and staff are responsible for administering the executive clemency process, in accordance with longstanding federal regulations. We review and investigate applications for executive clemency that are submitted to the Department of Justice, and we make recommendations to grant or deny those applications based on the standards written in the Justice Manual.
• Thousands of clemency applications are submitted to the Office each year. Many come from people who are in prison and seeking a shorter prison sentence (known as a “commutation”). Others come from people who have completed their sentences and are seeking forgiveness for their offenses (known as a “pardon”).

About the Office

www.justice.gov

There actually is a process in place, or there was, designed to impartially review requests for pardons and make recommendations to the prez. As has been the case in so many areas it was broken by trump's overwhelming impulse for corruption in all things.

It’s still there as far as I know.

 

[berg80]

More made up nonsense from you ankle biters…

You have heard about the immunity trump has given himself from prosecution for cheating on his taxes, right?

 

[berg80]

It’s still there as far as I know.

Only for show. Don's pardon attorney is the shockingly corrupt Ed Martin who trump couldn't get confirmed as a US Attorney due to Ed's track record of sycophantic hackery.

 

[candycorn]

Only for show. Don's pardon attorney is the shockingly corrupt Ed Martin who trump couldn't get confirmed as a US Attorney due to Ed's track record of sycophantic hackery.

If we’re going to get political about this; the Democrats have zero moral high ground to stand on....

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

If we’re going to get political about this; the Democrats have zero moral high ground to stand on....

Compared to Trump and his cult they are............

 

[Dragonlady]

You got to remember, when Democrat authority are breathing they're being unethical or stupid.

You haven't looked at the records for arrests and convictions of Republicans, have you???? If you did, you'd seen who's being unethical and stupid.

Always living up to your user name. It's not Democrats who are pardoning every right winger who beat up the police or stole from the government.

 

[candycorn]

Compared to Trump and his cult they are............

View attachment 1261577

Biden pardoned his punk son.... I understand why he did it but the harsh reality is that a President has a responsibility higher than the personal. Nothing says...”well, yeah, some are above the law” more than that. Using the blob as a moral barometer is rather dubious, don’t you think?