Do you fear God?

[Sky Dancer]

If it were truly a primarily peaceful religion, the peaceniks would have the advantage of numbers, and instead of pissing and moaning about being unfairly targeted by the people your nuts are slaughtering, you would take care of the issue yourselves.

But you don't. You instead support them, financially, emotionally, and geographically.

Besides which, all one has to do is look at the Koran to know it's not a peaceful religion. It's the religion of "Lying to your face if it gets you what you want".

Great religion.

In terms of finding common ground, I think we can all agree, that we want to put an end to terrorism and war and evil done in the name of religion.
All you're doing is pointing the finger at someone else. Do you have control over every Christian on earth? Why not use your own religion to work on yourself?
That's the purpose of religion. To completely tame your own mind--not to engage in war with others.

Why not use your posts to demonstrate your Christ-like qualities if you're a Christian?

I am demonstrating my Christ-like qualities. If that doesn't jibe with your wrong imagination of what it means to be Christian, that's not my problem.

THe purpose of religion is not to tame one's mind. THat may be the purpose of your religion. I'd say you need to work on it, though, since you are less than a perfect Buddhist yourself, given your sexual orientation. I don't think you're really the person to be preaching about "taming one's mind".

There is only one true religion. It's purpose is to praise and glorify God, to protect the weak, to stand up for what is right. Despite criticism, despite attack, despite torture, despite death. So when you try to bastardize God and morph him into something palatable to your personally, when you try to demonize my religion and imply it's no different that any other, it is my duty to stand up and say "this is who God is, and this is what it means to be a Christian".

Despite your attempts to convince me I'm wrong and you somehow have an insight, as a non-believer and anti-Christian, that I lack.

Read the bible and then get back to me about what it means to be a Christian.

Thank you. You've made your point clearly and succinctly. We have nothing further to discuss.

I assert that common ground can be found in the world's great religions and that in the name of peace making it is our moral imperative to practice any and all methods toward this aim.

That's just dealing with this life alone. For many of us who practice a path of spirituality, we are more concerned with how we die and how we are to be reborn in the next life.

The question of the thread is "Do you fear God?" We have many difference concepts of God or the divine. Each path considers itself uniquely the 'one true religion' or the only path that leads to liberation.

That is a skillful means to do that, but it is not the wisdom path, which is beyond that. Both are necessary.

I'm not trying to win you over or convince you to my point of view. I'm just interested in a conversation about the topic of fear and God.

I'm not an anti-Christian. I respect many Christians whose Christ-like qualities are in evidence. Care4all is an example. I respect the teachings of Jesus, especially in their essence--Love God, and Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. I also respect Muslims, including some of the Muslim posters here--like Perham, for example.

I am not demonizing Christianity. Christianity is as valid a path of religion as any other. You can use the teachings to open your mind and heart or you can use them to narrow your mind and close your heart. Fred Phelps comes to mind as the latter example of a Christian who has no Christ-like qualities in evidence. He seems too mentally ill to be a true representative of the best Christianity has to offer.

Every religion has it's adherents who misuse the teachings to justify violence. That's even true of Buddhists--Sri Lanka is an example.

It's up to each of us to practice our faiths in accordance we teachings we recieive on their meaning and to practice them to the best of our ability. You're absolutely right, that I need to work on my own mind and that I am not a great example of a Buddhist practitioner. That's why every day I make a new beginning, and every day, I fail. But I am practicing to catch myself in the moments of presence and to rest in those. The more I pay attention to my positive qualities the more evidence I see that there are some.

Take Care, Allie

 

[manifold]

Thank you. You've made your point clearly and succinctly. We have nothing further to discuss.

And watch me prove this by adding 8 more paragraphs to the discussion.


Take Care, Allie

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Amanda]

Oh, excuse me folks!!!! I forgot that this is the thread I'm not supposed to post in.

Get the heck out of here, you heathen! If you're not a Muslim, Jew or Christian you have nothing worthwhile to contribute!

I guess you think you're being clever when you say things like that. All I asked of respondents was to tell me if they feared God or not. They didn't have to be Christian. I respect ALL regions. I've said on here many times that I think peoples spiritual beliefs are sacred and above being criticized, even if I don't agree with them. All you show with posts like that are your own human ego. It gets in the way of understanding. If you actually cared about me or this topic you'd be more respectful, regardless of whether or not you thought I was. That's what being a good person is about, being the best you can be REGARDLESS of others and whatever their shortcoming might be.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, the purpose of my religion is NOT to be less harmful, whatever the hell that means. The purpose of my faith is to praise God. And nowhere in my Bible does it tell CHristians to hunt down non-Christians and kill them. Nowhere in my bible does it tell us that it's okay to lie if it furthers the cause.

No, Christians are not a world domination denomination, what utter nonsense. If they were, the missionaries all over the world who suffer and die at the hands of Muslims would be fighting back, building stockades, shipping in weapons and blowing up cafes and trains, like the Muslims do.

You're sorely lacking on anything even approaching rationality on this (and anything else). You have created your own world. Go live in it. Let the grown ups deal with the really important stuff.

1. Doesn't Christ say love one another?

2. Praising God, doesn't that mean praising qualities of compassion and love? Wouldn't that also mean finding common ground, and finding the loving heart that exists in people of other religions--like Muslims. Wouldn't it mean praising goodness and looking for evidence of goodness everywhere?

3. Why do Christians establish missions if not to convert others. Isn't the goal to have every human being on earth be a Christian, or to bow in obedience to Christian dogma?

4. We all co-create our world together. Right now, we have co-created religious wars between Jews and Muslims. We have an equal responsibility to create peace in our world. Let's do that. Criticising an entire religion doesn't make peace. Having continual tantrums and continually using putdowns is not very grown up. I can't think of anything more grown up then peace making.

Christ tells us to love each other and our enemies. I do. THat doesn't mean I have to support them in what I know is wrong.

Praising God means praising God, the being. Not praising "compassion and whatever". It means praising God, personally, with my actions and my voice.

Christians establish missions to save others. However, those missionaries don't consider themselves on a holy mission to kill all those who won't be converted.

Your co-creations crap is simply ridiculous gobbledygook that doesn't even deserve an answer. Answer it yourself, you're the only one who gives it any merit.

I completely agree with your first sentence.

For the second one I would ask you, is God separate from you or any other being?

For your third assertion, Christians have historically 'saved' those who didn't want to be saved by conquering them. The Crusades killed many non-Christians.

As to the co-creators of our world. We do co-create our world by our thoughts, words and deeds. Dismissing that as goobledy gook or crap just demonstrates that your mind is closed to discourse with others.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Oh, excuse me folks!!!! I forgot that this is the thread I'm not supposed to post in.

Get the heck out of here, you heathen! If you're not a Muslim, Jew or Christian you have nothing worthwhile to contribute!

I guess you think you're being clever when you say things like that. All I asked of respondents was to tell me if they feared God or not. They didn't have to be Christian. I respect ALL regions. I've said on here many times that I think peoples spiritual beliefs are sacred and above being criticized, even if I don't agree with them. All you show with posts like that are your own human ego. It gets in the way of understanding. If you actually cared about me or this topic you'd be more respectful, regardless of whether or not you thought I was. That's what being a good person is about, being the best you can be REGARDLESS of others and whatever their shortcoming might be.

Being a good person is valuable. Practicing ethics is valuable. Having an equal kind regard for all, including our enemies is valualbe,

Fearing the consquences of our actions is wise. As you know, I don't identify the essence as the label God. However, I do relate to the fear of letting go into inseparability or union with the essence nature--it truly represents ego death.

Do you think that other faiths don't consider being a good person a value? Do you think atheists and agnostics don't have personal ethics or value being kind toward others?

How about extending kindness toward others, warts and all? How about having an inclusive and curious attitude toward the views of all the members who contribute to this thread and others?

Is that a value too?

 

[Amanda]

Like I said, you'd rather argue Buddhism with a Buddhist, find another Buddhist to do it with lol. I wouldn't dream of debating bible teachings with a Jew or a Christian because I have too much respect for people who practice those faiths.

That's what I mean about your lack of respect. It's one sided only.

You can find whatever links you wish to, but I am offering a point of view as a person practicing in a specific tradition of Buddhism, one that looks for ways to connect with others--rather than descend into sectarianism--which always leads to war.

I have offered a way to find common ground--you reject it. That's fine. It's your choice. I'm suggesting you look at what God is in the most expansive way possible. When that happens, concepts about God (which are not God) labels and names fall away and all that remains is resting in equipoise in the present moment, 24/7. It's a possibility when you think outside narrow sectarianism.

Sectarianism, fundamentalism, the kind of Christianity you practice as a Baptis, all have their place, and are useful. I respect your choice.

I assert my interest in theological and religious discussions, and I will participate to the best of my ability in these discussions. I'm looking for common ground. Buddhist teachings say that Buddha is always present--but rarely seen and in every being. Christians say all are God's children. I hear common ground in those statements. Do you miss it?

If you'd rather not consider my comments or questions, it's your choice. I'm also communicating with other members.

It's extremely disrespectful of others to ask them questions and then provide your own argumentative answer which has nothing to do with the teachings I've recieved and practiced. If you want to be respected, learn to be respectful.

Buddha refers to two things--a state of consciousness or being--(is God not called Being?) and the historical figure who had realization of that state and who taught the path leading to it's moment to moment experience. The historical Buddha was indeed a special being, like Jesus is to you, and Mohammed is to Muslims.

WTF are you talking about?

You said Buddha is a god, so is Buddaha a god or not?

It is not disrespectful to provide an opinion, it's common message board etiquette.

What is the way you tried to find common ground?

I wrote a thoughtful post, and you've chosen to ignore it. Fine. Your choice. Express whatever opiniions you like. I'm just saying that I don't challenge Christian beliefs out of respect for them. I'm not here to challenge Christians about their beliefs, and to find links to contradict their own understanding of what God means to them. There are tons of scriptures in the Bible that appear to contradict one another, but it is up to Christians to resolve those contradtions through their spiritual methods.

Or you can offer opinion about the content of the post, and ask how it relates to the topic, "Do you fear God?"
From my own experience in practicing meditation, which is the art of connecting in the present moment with what is a transcendent state of being, (perhaps you label transcendence as God?) I find there is fear present. Because to do so is to lose that solid sense of ego identity.


Is Buddha a god or not? That depends on what you think 'God' is. You've said you think God is love, if that is your belief, then by your definition, Buddha is like God. Love is not solid, it is a state of consciousness, it is a mental factor. In that regard, Buddha is like God in that both by these definitions are states of being or consciousness.

The opening question "WTF are you talking about?" doesn't seem particularly respectful in a conversation about God or Buddha.

I remember my catetchism, as a child.

What is God? The answer was: "God is a supreme being who made all things."

Now, asking questions about what that actually means was a dissatisfying experience for me as a child. I was told to not ask questions and to take everything on faith.

Now when I read that catetchism Q and A, informed by 30 years of Buddhist teachings, contemplations and training, I have a way to translate that question and answer that I find deeply satisying.

If you scratch beneath the surface of spiritual teachings in all the great traditions, you can find common ground.

I didn't find your other post thoughtful, it seemed combative and had little substance. This 1 is a little better. I think you know very well what I'm talking about when I say God is love, and you're choosing to play semantical games instead of just getting on with things. You're trying to make excuses or whatever for why Buddha is God or all beings are God and that's not what I'm talking about, and I think you know the difference, but you are so caught up in your ego and our history that you just can't let things be.

If you want to contribute to my understanding of people, just be real, there's no need to bring anything else with you, it's just excess baggage. All I ever asked from you was to learn what your experience was, I don't know why that was threatening or not ok, but it's all I ask from anyone. I didn't target you, I just thought that since your time in this life was so different than mine that maybe you could teach me something. I think it's really a shame we have such an adversarial relationship, I want so badly to be your friend.

 

[Amanda]

Get the heck out of here, you heathen! If you're not a Muslim, Jew or Christian you have nothing worthwhile to contribute!

I guess you think you're being clever when you say things like that. All I asked of respondents was to tell me if they feared God or not. They didn't have to be Christian. I respect ALL regions. I've said on here many times that I think peoples spiritual beliefs are sacred and above being criticized, even if I don't agree with them. All you show with posts like that are your own human ego. It gets in the way of understanding. If you actually cared about me or this topic you'd be more respectful, regardless of whether or not you thought I was. That's what being a good person is about, being the best you can be REGARDLESS of others and whatever their shortcoming might be.

Being a good person is valuable. Practicing ethics is valuable. Having an equal kind regard for all, including our enemies is valualbe,

Fearing the consquences of our actions is wise. As you know, I don't identify the essence as the label God. However, I do relate to the fear of letting go into inseparability or union with the essence nature--it truly represents ego death.

Do you think that other faiths don't consider being a good person a value? Do you think atheists and agnostics don't have personal ethics or value being kind toward others?

How about extending kindness toward others, warts and all? How about having an inclusive and curious attitude toward the views of all the members who contribute to this thread and others?

Is that a value too?

I value the opinions of atheists and non-believers in a different way. This tread was about getting very narrowly defined responses, and I hoped (naively) that others would let me gather them without harassing me for trying. If this thread was about something like say global warming and I wanted those that believe it's a real threat to educate me as to their beliefs, it would just be a stupid distraction if those that don't think it's concern polluted the thread with their opinion.

I do value your opinion, just not on the subject of supreme beings, because you don't believe in them. It's nothing personal, I don't bring our history into my understanding of you, I try to take everything at face value and evaluate it on it's own merit and since you're a Buddhist it's just not relevant to the question I asked.

 

[Sky Dancer]

WTF are you talking about?

You said Buddha is a god, so is Buddaha a god or not?

It is not disrespectful to provide an opinion, it's common message board etiquette.

What is the way you tried to find common ground?

I wrote a thoughtful post, and you've chosen to ignore it. Fine. Your choice. Express whatever opiniions you like. I'm just saying that I don't challenge Christian beliefs out of respect for them. I'm not here to challenge Christians about their beliefs, and to find links to contradict their own understanding of what God means to them. There are tons of scriptures in the Bible that appear to contradict one another, but it is up to Christians to resolve those contradtions through their spiritual methods.

Or you can offer opinion about the content of the post, and ask how it relates to the topic, "Do you fear God?"
From my own experience in practicing meditation, which is the art of connecting in the present moment with what is a transcendent state of being, (perhaps you label transcendence as God?) I find there is fear present. Because to do so is to lose that solid sense of ego identity.


Is Buddha a god or not? That depends on what you think 'God' is. You've said you think God is love, if that is your belief, then by your definition, Buddha is like God. Love is not solid, it is a state of consciousness, it is a mental factor. In that regard, Buddha is like God in that both by these definitions are states of being or consciousness.

The opening question "WTF are you talking about?" doesn't seem particularly respectful in a conversation about God or Buddha.

I remember my catetchism, as a child.

What is God? The answer was: "God is a supreme being who made all things."

Now, asking questions about what that actually means was a dissatisfying experience for me as a child. I was told to not ask questions and to take everything on faith.

Now when I read that catetchism Q and A, informed by 30 years of Buddhist teachings, contemplations and training, I have a way to translate that question and answer that I find deeply satisying.

If you scratch beneath the surface of spiritual teachings in all the great traditions, you can find common ground.

I didn't find your other post thoughtful, it seemed combative and had little substance. This 1 is a little better. I think you know very well what I'm talking about when I say God is love, and you're choosing to play semantical games instead of just getting on with things. You're trying to make excuses or whatever for why Buddha is God or all beings are God and that's not what I'm talking about, and I think you know the difference, but you are so caught up in your ego and our history that you just can't let things be.

If you want to contribute to my understanding of people, just be real, there's no need to bring anything else with you, it's just excess baggage. All I ever asked from you was to learn what your experience was, I don't know why that was threatening or not ok, but it's all I ask from anyone. I didn't target you, I just thought that since your time in this life was so different than mine that maybe you could teach me something. I think it's really a shame we have such an adversarial relationship, I want so badly to be your friend.

Can we just drop whatever misunderstanding happened in the past and discuss this interesting topic? If you want to make a new beginning and try and be friends, I'm willing to start over.

Please demonstrate exactly what you considered to be combative in my post, rather than just your opinion. How else would I be able to improve my posting? In order for me to participate I have to talk about language because Christian language and Buddhist language is so different.

Love is universal--and yet even there Buddhists define love differently than others do.

If God is Love, what is there to fear? The only thing that comes to mind, is that in true intimacy, the self dissolves, and that is scary to many of us--having that separate sense of self fall away.

 

[Amanda]

It's totally lame that kalam and others are using the same old tired argument that their religion isn't violent, that it's a small group of hard core militants, that most people aren't like that...

Why is that lame when it's true?

http://www.muslimwestfacts.com/mwf/File/109477/Mainstream_Extremist_Views.pdf

Don't let factual data get in the way of your preconceptions, though. By all means, continue your pitiful attempts to degrade my religious beliefs without having actually read the Qur'an. You'll have much better luck among the "everything my holy book says is literally correct" crowd, but you do what you want.

This is the point I was trying to make to Amanda. I wouldn't dream of challenging a Muslim about teachings in your holy book, the Qu'ran, because I haven't studied it, and I have no personal experience practicing Islam.

Do you think it's possible that the God of the Qur'an and the God of the Christian and Jewish holy books is the same God?

What is Allah, to you?

How is Allah conceived of and thought about? Is Allah solid? Can Allah be found within your own heart and mind this very moment?

If so, that Allah and Buddha have some things in common.

I have said many times I believe every persons spiritual beliefs are sacred and above criticism. I have a lot of respect for Muslims. I do believe that Allah and the Christian god are one and the same. I think a lot of Christian fundamentalists miss a very obvious connection there.

When I say that God is love I don't mean that in a simplistic way. Love isn't just about patting those you love on the head. Love is hard. Love is caring when maybe you'd rather not. Love is doing what isn't easy because it's right. Love isn't all lollipops and sunshine. Love makes me cry because it would be easier to just not care, but I can't help myself, I can't not care.

 

[AllieBaba]

1. Doesn't Christ say love one another?

2. Praising God, doesn't that mean praising qualities of compassion and love? Wouldn't that also mean finding common ground, and finding the loving heart that exists in people of other religions--like Muslims. Wouldn't it mean praising goodness and looking for evidence of goodness everywhere?

3. Why do Christians establish missions if not to convert others. Isn't the goal to have every human being on earth be a Christian, or to bow in obedience to Christian dogma?

4. We all co-create our world together. Right now, we have co-created religious wars between Jews and Muslims. We have an equal responsibility to create peace in our world. Let's do that. Criticising an entire religion doesn't make peace. Having continual tantrums and continually using putdowns is not very grown up. I can't think of anything more grown up then peace making.

Christ tells us to love each other and our enemies. I do. THat doesn't mean I have to support them in what I know is wrong.

Praising God means praising God, the being. Not praising "compassion and whatever". It means praising God, personally, with my actions and my voice.

Christians establish missions to save others. However, those missionaries don't consider themselves on a holy mission to kill all those who won't be converted.

Your co-creations crap is simply ridiculous gobbledygook that doesn't even deserve an answer. Answer it yourself, you're the only one who gives it any merit.

I completely agree with your first sentence.

For the second one I would ask you, is God separate from you or any other being?

For your third assertion, Christians have historically 'saved' those who didn't want to be saved by conquering them. The Crusades killed many non-Christians.

As to the co-creators of our world. We do co-create our world by our thoughts, words and deeds. Dismissing that as goobledy gook or crap just demonstrates that your mind is closed to discourse with others.

The crusades were undertaken as a defensive measure when Islam was advancing and conquering and threatening the whole of Europe.

Any other incredibly intelligent b.s. you'd like to add?

 

[AllieBaba]

I wrote a thoughtful post, and you've chosen to ignore it. Fine. Your choice. Express whatever opiniions you like. I'm just saying that I don't challenge Christian beliefs out of respect for them. I'm not here to challenge Christians about their beliefs, and to find links to contradict their own understanding of what God means to them. There are tons of scriptures in the Bible that appear to contradict one another, but it is up to Christians to resolve those contradtions through their spiritual methods.

Or you can offer opinion about the content of the post, and ask how it relates to the topic, "Do you fear God?"
From my own experience in practicing meditation, which is the art of connecting in the present moment with what is a transcendent state of being, (perhaps you label transcendence as God?) I find there is fear present. Because to do so is to lose that solid sense of ego identity.


Is Buddha a god or not? That depends on what you think 'God' is. You've said you think God is love, if that is your belief, then by your definition, Buddha is like God. Love is not solid, it is a state of consciousness, it is a mental factor. In that regard, Buddha is like God in that both by these definitions are states of being or consciousness.

The opening question "WTF are you talking about?" doesn't seem particularly respectful in a conversation about God or Buddha.

I remember my catetchism, as a child.

What is God? The answer was: "God is a supreme being who made all things."

Now, asking questions about what that actually means was a dissatisfying experience for me as a child. I was told to not ask questions and to take everything on faith.

Now when I read that catetchism Q and A, informed by 30 years of Buddhist teachings, contemplations and training, I have a way to translate that question and answer that I find deeply satisying.

If you scratch beneath the surface of spiritual teachings in all the great traditions, you can find common ground.

I didn't find your other post thoughtful, it seemed combative and had little substance. This 1 is a little better. I think you know very well what I'm talking about when I say God is love, and you're choosing to play semantical games instead of just getting on with things. You're trying to make excuses or whatever for why Buddha is God or all beings are God and that's not what I'm talking about, and I think you know the difference, but you are so caught up in your ego and our history that you just can't let things be.

If you want to contribute to my understanding of people, just be real, there's no need to bring anything else with you, it's just excess baggage. All I ever asked from you was to learn what your experience was, I don't know why that was threatening or not ok, but it's all I ask from anyone. I didn't target you, I just thought that since your time in this life was so different than mine that maybe you could teach me something. I think it's really a shame we have such an adversarial relationship, I want so badly to be your friend.

Can we just drop whatever misunderstanding happened in the past and discuss this interesting topic? If you want to make a new beginning and try and be friends, I'm willing to start over.

Please demonstrate exactly what you considered to be combative in my post, rather than just your opinion. How else would I be able to improve my posting? In order for me to participate I have to talk about language because Christian language and Buddhist language is so different.

Love is universal--and yet even there Buddhists define love differently than others do.

If God is Love, what is there to fear? The only thing that comes to mind, is that in true intimacy, the self dissolves, and that is scary to many of us--having that separate sense of self fall away.

All your posts are self-aggrandizing, and generally combative. Generally they are outright lies as well.

 

[Anguille]

No, the purpose of my religion is NOT to be less harmful, whatever the hell that means. The purpose of my faith is to praise God. And nowhere in my Bible does it tell CHristians to hunt down non-Christians and kill them. Nowhere in my bible does it tell us that it's okay to lie if it furthers the cause.

No, Christians are not a world domination denomination, what utter nonsense. If they were, the missionaries all over the world who suffer and die at the hands of Muslims would be fighting back, building stockades, shipping in weapons and blowing up cafes and trains, like the Muslims do.

You're sorely lacking on anything even approaching rationality on this (and anything else). You have created your own world. Go live in it. Let the grown ups deal with the really important stuff.

Excuse me, but you have a suspiciously Islamic sounding name. Please remove your shoes.

 

[AllieBaba]

I only remove them to throw them at people and pictures I don't like.

And occasionally while driving when my feet get hot.

 

[Anguille]

It's not really a problem for me, it's what I expected. Seems that "tolerance" for others beliefs is sort of a one way street for some.

quote=Amanda
Atheists and other non-believers I would really appreciate it if you could not derail the thread, I really want to hear what other believers think without the usual flaming that accompanies "religious" threads.

Maybe you should try showing some tolerance before you think you should be entitled to it yourself.

Just a thought.

When have I been intolerant? A link would be helpful. Thanks.

Had you also accused her of intellectual dishonesty, you would have been pulling a perfect Ravi.

 

[Old Rocks]

I do not scare very easily, perhaps thats one of the reasons why i'm an atheist

Talk to me about that when we're sharing a foxhole, eh?

At my age, there is little I fear in life, and less that I fear in death. I do not know if there is a Deity or not. And care little which way it goes. We are here, in the present. The decisions that we make will affect our children and descendents. It is their world that we are shaping, and what we should be fearful of is making a worse world for them than we have at present.

I have shaken the hand of the Reaper a couple of times. When it comes my time, I will be most curious to see if there is anything after this. So a Foxhole situation has made no differance in my thoughts concerning the existance or lack thereof for a Deity. However, I will put off the vital experiment off as long as possible.

 

[AllieBaba]

Your curiosity may lessen when you see the lake of fire, and you may find out you still have it in you to fear after all.

 

[Old Rocks]

Christ tells us to love each other and our enemies. I do. THat doesn't mean I have to support them in what I know is wrong.

Praising God means praising God, the being. Not praising "compassion and whatever". It means praising God, personally, with my actions and my voice.

Christians establish missions to save others. However, those missionaries don't consider themselves on a holy mission to kill all those who won't be converted.

Your co-creations crap is simply ridiculous gobbledygook that doesn't even deserve an answer. Answer it yourself, you're the only one who gives it any merit.

I completely agree with your first sentence.

For the second one I would ask you, is God separate from you or any other being?

For your third assertion, Christians have historically 'saved' those who didn't want to be saved by conquering them. The Crusades killed many non-Christians.

As to the co-creators of our world. We do co-create our world by our thoughts, words and deeds. Dismissing that as goobledy gook or crap just demonstrates that your mind is closed to discourse with others.

The crusades were undertaken as a defensive measure when Islam was advancing and conquering and threatening the whole of Europe.

Any other incredibly intelligent b.s. you'd like to add?

I see. That is why they slaughtered fellow Christians Constinople. The crusades were expeditions of looting and slaughter, no better, and no worse, than the expeditions of the Moslems of the time.

 

[Old Rocks]

Your curiosity may lessen when you see the lake of fire, and you may find out you still have it in you to fear after all.

I see. And that is how you understand the message of Jesus? A Deity that eternally tortures those that do not bend a knee to him? A very sociopathic Deity. A projection of a very sick mind.

 

[Amanda]

Maybe you should try showing some tolerance before you think you should be entitled to it yourself.

Just a thought.

When have I been intolerant? A link would be helpful. Thanks.

Had you also accused her of intellectual dishonesty, you would have been pulling a perfect Ravi.

I'm not interested in the games that are played here, I'm searching for truth and understanding.

 

[mightypeon]

Christ tells us to love each other and our enemies. I do. THat doesn't mean I have to support them in what I know is wrong.

Praising God means praising God, the being. Not praising "compassion and whatever". It means praising God, personally, with my actions and my voice.

Christians establish missions to save others. However, those missionaries don't consider themselves on a holy mission to kill all those who won't be converted.

Your co-creations crap is simply ridiculous gobbledygook that doesn't even deserve an answer. Answer it yourself, you're the only one who gives it any merit.

I completely agree with your first sentence.

For the second one I would ask you, is God separate from you or any other being?

For your third assertion, Christians have historically 'saved' those who didn't want to be saved by conquering them. The Crusades killed many non-Christians.

As to the co-creators of our world. We do co-create our world by our thoughts, words and deeds. Dismissing that as goobledy gook or crap just demonstrates that your mind is closed to discourse with others.

The crusades were undertaken as a defensive measure when Islam was advancing and conquering and threatening the whole of Europe.

Any other incredibly intelligent b.s. you'd like to add?

Not quite, in general, the goals of the crusaders varied as much as the crusaders themselfs, and they were a fairly heterogenous bunch.
The first crusade originated after a plea for help from the Byzantine Emperor. At this time, Byzantium was still quite strong, and equally fighting with the (more or less Turkish) Seljuks. When the Seljuks allied with several states from Syria, the Byzantines feared a shift of power. The first crusade initially clashed with the Seljuks in several large and bloody battles, eventually turning south into Syrian and later Egypt lands afterwards.
This had 2 reasons: Syria was rich and thus able to sustain the Crusading host, secondly, the Crusaders had to sign an agreement that they had to return everything the conquered in Byzantine territory back to Byzanz.
My reasoning why it was not a defensive war is easy: The front where Islam was actually attacking (Catholic) Christianity was Spain, and Spain would have been, due to a largely Christian population that didnt like the Almohad occupiers, much easier to liberate then the Holy Land. Secondly, the threat from Spain pointed right at the Kingdom of France, one of Europes major powers. To actually reach Europe from the holy land, the Seljuks would have had to defeat the significant opponents of Bzyantium, Bulgaria and Hungaria. All of them had significant military potentials. In the 15th and 16th centuries, the ottoman Empire eventually managed to do that, but this was much later, and the Ottomans werent exactly the most zealous muslims either.