Zone1 Do You Ever Question Why You Believe The Way You Do?

[luiza]

If there were a God, the Holocaust would never have happened, not to mention all the horrific diseases and all the horrific injustices that human beings and animals suffer every minute of every day.

If you play the Goddy Game , why whould anyone begin by assuming that " he" is good ?
It is not logically necessary. Only a 50% chance of being correct .

And, as we all know , all the evidence suggests otherwise .

Perhaps that is necessary for evolution --"Bad is divisive and dynamic but" Good " suggests no development -- inertia due to satisfaction etc .

Putting it another way , if everything remained static forever there would be no Time . Because you need Change in order to measure Time . Time cannot and does not exist without Change .

In that case, Goddy is consistent and therefore is "Good" as judged by his keeping the real promise of being creative , but which itself necessarily implies a lack of order . Change .

So calling Goddy a devious bastard is the highest complement possible .And if he could communicate directly , he must be assumed to be a liar .

 

[Meriweather]

If you play the Goddy Game , why whould anyone begin by assuming that " he" is good ?

Perspective, not game. Game is too simplistic, and so is perspective if that perspective is one-dimensional. Imagine (impossible) multiple dimensions. Is the Bible man's story...or is it God's story? Is it a time of sunset, where evil covers mankind's existence, or can it be we are experiencing a sunrise where good is dawning, breaking through the evil?

The Bible, inspired by God, written by man with the perspective of man. Where do we see evil, and where do we see goodness dawning amidst the evil? Where did the people of Biblical times see evil...where did they see good? Over time, has the dawning of goodness shed more light upon us, so we can more clearly see what is good, comparing that to the more shadowy times of our ancestors? Can we more accurately discern where shadows still exist?

It worked best to first seek and find God, to know him, before delving into the depths of the Bible. It makes more sense that way. Reading about God is far different from experiencing God. Knowing God--even that minuscule amount--brings more depth to scripture and a better understanding of who God is and what he is about.

 

[luiza]

Perspective, not game. Game is too simplistic, and so is perspective if that perspective is one-dimensional. Imagine (impossible) multiple dimensions. Is the Bible man's story...or is it God's story? Is it a time of sunset, where evil covers mankind's existence, or can it be we are experiencing a sunrise where good is dawning, breaking through the evil?

The Bible, inspired by God, written by man with the perspective of man. Where do we see evil, and where do we see goodness dawning amidst the evil? Where did the people of Biblical times see evil...where did they see good? Over time, has the dawning of goodness shed more light upon us, so we can more clearly see what is good, comparing that to the more shadowy times of our ancestors? Can we more accurately discern where shadows still exist?

It worked best to first seek and find God, to know him, before delving into the depths of the Bible. It makes more sense that way. Reading about God is far different from experiencing God. Knowing God--even that minuscule amount--brings more depth to scripture and a better understanding of who God is and what he is about.

Thanks , But your reply reeks of unconscious deflection so that you can continue to think good of yourself ---- and God

Consider the sentence .
God is Good (Forget "Game" and "Perspective" ) .

Then , forgetting Verificationists who would say it is a meaningless statement because the terms cannot be defined --- It is logically False . Or , premature , if you prefer .
Because you do not examine all of the three possibilities
Good
Bad
Unrelated to either .

The rest of my original post then still stands with the conclusion that there is no way to tell whether God is True or False other than through looking at us and our actions .

And that would not be pretty !! imho

 

[Meriweather]

The rest of my original post then still stands with the conclusion that there is no way to tell whether God is True or False other than through looking at us and our actions .

There is another way: Seek and find. Almost as good, live by his Word and observe.

I am not trying to get anyone to change their mind--merely to understand what some of us experience and the reasons/foundation of our faith and belief.

 

[BreezeWood]

Perhaps that is necessary for evolution --"Bad is divisive and dynamic but" Good " suggests no development -- inertia due to satisfaction etc .

the heavens will not tolerate the element - evil - bad is suggestive there can be good construed as bad and are the happy endeavors to solve.

good change is preferred to bad ... for most normal people. than luiza.

... the desert religions are - evil - is what jesus taught, the repudiation of judaism.

 

[boevans]

Sure.

Do You Ever Question Why You Believe The Way You Do?​

 

[Cougarbear]

Question myself? No, but beliefs can sometimes change over time.

I remember believing that abortion was a bad thing till I realized that in fact the utility of abortion is a very good thing.....Nobody talked me into seeing it that way now.

You must be a politician that needed to flip on abortion. I do agree that beliefs can change just by studying and gain knowledge. That’s why knowledge of the faithless has to be balanced off and overwhelmed by the knowledge of faith in Christ. Children and college students go to the godless schools 6-8 hours daily 5 days a week. Then, they may go to Church for an hour or two during a 7 day period. It’s amazing that so many people still have faith in Christ. If your beliefs are sliding backwards, you might want to increase the time seeking more knowledge of the faith in Christ.

 

[1srelluc]

You must be a politician that needed to flip on abortion. I do agree that beliefs can change just by studying and gain knowledge. That’s why knowledge of the faithless has to be balanced off and overwhelmed by the knowledge of faith in Christ. Children and college students go to the godless schools 6-8 hours daily 5 days a week. Then, they may go to Church for an hour or two during a 7 day period. It’s amazing that so many people still have faith in Christ. If your beliefs are sliding backwards, you might want to increase the time seeking more knowledge of the faith in Christ.

Nah, thanks but I'm good.

 

[Cougarbear]

Nah, thanks but I'm good.

Doesn’t sound like it…

 

[1srelluc]

Doesn’t sound like it…

My position on the matter suits me.....You do you.

 

[Bonzi]

I do a lot actually. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad that I believe in Jesus and Heaven and that He died on the cross to save me from my sins, but I'm not exactly sure why I believe that when there are so many beliefs in the world about what happens after you die.



Some other people think that nothing happens, some people believe that you come back as something else, other people believe in ghosts, (I actually think that's possible too btw.) how I just seem to know in my heart that Jesus and Heaven exist and the Bible's true I honestly don't know though. It's almost like I didn't even make the decision to choose what I believe I just do.

I question why anyone believes what they believe. But I different people have different reasons for their beliefs. Mostly because it jives with their world view/personal feelings etc. There are few that have beliefs due to a radical change, but, for the most part, I think those are exceptions.

 

[Cougarbear]

My position on the matter suits me.....You do you.

So, you are lacking desire for increased knowledge and intelligence.

 

[Road Runner]

If there were a God, the Holocaust would never have happened, not to mention all the horrific diseases and all the horrific injustices that human beings and animals suffer every minute of every day.

None of that is God's fault though.

 

[Libby von H]

Rememver , when on the fence about something so important, there is initially doubt both ways but certainty that being on the fence is NOT RIGHT OR GOOD. And that one sins by being trivial in just saying "heck, I can't get my answer right now so I won't stick with it"

Faith is like love , most doubts are really trials. You don't like the negativity so you doubt the reality.
Divorce is often like that if your initial love for the person was because you saw them as they truly are.

 

[Libby von H]

I do a lot actually. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad that I believe in Jesus and Heaven and that He died on the cross to save me from my sins, but I'm not exactly sure why I believe that when there are so many beliefs in the world about what happens after you die.



Some other people think that nothing happens, some people believe that you come back as something else, other people believe in ghosts, (I actually think that's possible too btw.) how I just seem to know in my heart that Jesus and Heaven exist and the Bible's true I honestly don't know though. It's almost like I didn't even make the decision to choose what I believe I just do.

Whatever our personal histories , if you do at some time commit to the Truth, that should be it.

This post seems to say that difficulty proves falsity -- an entirely silly thought even in the abstract

I quote thalt great analysis of Newman's

Discourse 11. Faith and Doubt​

"—could a man be said to trust in God, and to love God, who was familiar with doubts whether there was a God at all, or who bargained that, just as often as he pleased, he might be at liberty to doubt whether God was good, or just or mighty; and who maintained that, unless he did this, he was but a poor slave, that his mind was in bondage, and could render no free acceptable service to his Maker; that the very worship which God approved was one attended with a caveat, on the worshipper's part, that he did not promise to render it tomorrow; that he would not answer for himself that some argument might not come to light, which he had never heard before, which would make it a grave, moral duty in him to suspend his judgment and his devotion? Why, I should say, my brethren, that that man was worshipping his own mind, his own dear self and not God; that his idea of God was a mere accidental form which his thoughts took at this time or that,—for a long period or a short one, as the case might be,—not an image of the great Eternal Object, but a passing sentiment or imagination which meant nothing at all. I should say, and most men would agree with me, did they choose to give attention to the matter, that the person in question was a very self-conceited, self-wise man, and had neither love, nor faith, nor fear, nor anything supernatural about him; that his pride must be broken, and his heart new made, before he was capable of any religious act at all. "

Has stilled me from the day I read it.

 

[Libby von H]

If there were a God, the Holocaust would never have happened, not to mention all the horrific diseases and all the horrific injustices that human beings and animals suffer every minute of every day.

Then to that suffering your adding your hatred of all who disagree with you. No one will like you after deducing your real point.
And I ask you, so to whom to you attibute any good....Why would a grown person even call those things wrong if that is just the way the world is ?????????????? makes NO SENSE AT ALL

And you have never thought of this but your statement excuses all those horrible doers of the great evils

 

[Libby von H]

99.99% of religious people believe what they do solely because of when, where and to whom they were born.

But not you, YOU GODDAM MORON, SELF-INFLATED FOOL

 

[braalian]

But not you, YOU GODDAM MORON, SELF-INFLATED FOOL

Well, I’m not religious at all, so what’s your point?

My point is, religion is simply an aspect of the overall culture.

Most people in Mexico are catholic for the exact same reason they speak Spanish. Because of where they were born.

For the vast majority of religious people, they don’t choose their religion so much as have it chosen for them based on where they were born

 

[Libby von H]

Well, I’m not religious at all, so what’s your point?

My point is, religion is simply an aspect of the overall culture.

Most people in Mexico are catholic for the exact same reason they speak Spanish. Because of where they were born.

For the vast majority of religious people, they don’t choose their religion so much as have it chosen for them based on where they were born

Religion gives birth to culture and NOT the other way around
You are wrong about Mexico in a way that shows how very stupid you are

Some nine million Aztecs were converted to Christ by the power of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. At that time, the Aztec peoples were practicing human sacrifice.

YOU STUPID, STUPID PERSON Mexico is the great example of much of a nation deserting their religion because they saw it was wrong.

And so goddam illogical. Virtually all religions share the belief in God , which would have to be the most important of all beliefs,so how you believe that fact serves to show that the form is only that, a form. Take the many Christian denominations, , they share the Hierarchy of Truths in almost 90% of the cases . I will choose the Catholic version

 

[Libby von H]

You can't say you believe at all if you have nothing that you stand by no matter what.

You ask 'the way you do" as if you are a rare space creature that this does not apply to.

“Man can be compelled to do a good many things. There are a good many other things he can do in a halfhearted fashion, as it were, against his will. But belief can never be halfhearted. One can believe only if one wishes to. Perhap the credibility of a given person will be revealed to me so persuasively that I cannot help but think: It is wrong not to believe him; I “must” believe him. But this last step can be taken only in complete freedom, and that means that it can also not be taken. There may be plenty of compelling arguments for a man’s cedibility; but no argument can force us to believe him.

The unanimity of statements on this point is astonishing

YET YOU ACT AS IF THIS CAN"T BE TRUE !!!

Why MUST involve WILL, including in your case. Sorry