Do you believe the moses or mary stories?

[Meriweather]

Prove it then because your word is not the final word on it!

" Estimates for the dates when the canonical gospel accounts were written vary significantly; and the evidence for any of the dates is scanty. Because the earliest surviving complete copies of the gospels date to the 4th century and because only fragments and quotations exist before that, scholars use higher criticism to propose likely ranges of dates for the original gospel autographs. Scholars variously assess the majority (though not the consensus[32]) view as follows:

• Mark: c. 68–73,[33] c. 65–70.[34]
• Matthew: c. 70–100,[33] c. 80–85.[34]
• Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85,[33] c. 80–85.[34]
• John: c. 90–100,[34] c. 90–110,[35] The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition. "

Gospel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Mark Book was around 68 to 73 AD which make it a Bard story.

Matthew and Luke were at least around 80 AD, so another Bard story

John is most likely around 90 AD, so another Bard story.

This information has been known for decades, published in places before Wiki was even thought of. Scholars look for material that was known within two generations of the occurrence--and the Gospels fit that criteria. Legendary material takes on its life after about two centuries--which is also what happened with the "Lost Gospels." In order for material to become legendary after two hundred years, there has to be some primary material gathered within those first two generations.

In addition to the Gospels that appear within a generation, there are also the Letters from Paul, one which traces back further back in that first generation than the Gospels.

Therefor, calling something a "Bard Story" to make it seem historically unlikely doesn't fly in scholarly circles.

Just because one religion has something in common with another is about as meaningful as comparing presidencies. Of course, similarities can be found. Doesn't mean there weren't two very different administrations.

I am always mystified by why non-believers feel they must excuse their non-belief. Not only do some feel they must excuse it, some seem to also feel they must prove a religion wrong. The efforts to prove a religion wrong come across to believers who have their histories straight as a desperate histrionics to reassure themselves that their non-belief is justified.

 

[Indeependent]

When Noach sons, Yefes, Shem and Cham branched out into their own territories they were not illiterate; each of their tribes wrote about their life experiences from their own point of view and to fill their own agenda.
Many stories in the Torah, which is written from God's point of view, parallel the same stories written much earlier to fill an agenda.

 

[Meriweather]

There are 613 commandments...

Not all Commandments apply to both genders or all ages. Many of the 613 commandments go into detail about how to best observe the Ten Commandments.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you're probably right about Constantine. He was a believer in the already existing teachings of Christ but played a great role in furthering of those teachings. I don't know (I'm not a great student of ancient history) but I think the story is that Jesus said something about Peter being the rock on which he would build his church - which ultimately in time became the Catholic Church. My recollection is that part of inducing "pagans" and/or "heathens" into following these teachings was to incorporate or "weave" some of their gods into those teachings. With time came those who had differences with some of the beliefs held by the Holy Roman Church and broke away to form their own groups - Martin Luther, the Lutheran Church - John Knox, the Presbyterian Church, etc. It's still going on today - man's image of little bits of this or that which is taken as some literal translation of whatever.

I know there's some kind of snake handling church in the next county up from me - and I don't know what they believe in this snake handling stuff, but what I do know is that I'm not deliberately stepping foot in any place that has rattlesnakes running amok all over the place. If they're happy ... I'm happy for them ... have at it.

I think the bottom line is if someone wants to believe in this Creator God for whatever reason - peace, hope of a better tomorrow or a better place than the one we're in - then leave them the hell alone. If someone wants to completely deny the existence of any kind of Creator - fine. Religion (or the lack thereof) is a personal matter to each individual.

I'm fascinated with the time when Greeks who believed in Zeus were first told the story of Jesus and they bought it hook line and sinker.

You know how you can tell we've evolved as a species, at least I hope? I don't think we will ever fall for another Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Mary or Moses story ever again. No one today could tell us he spoke with god. We would all laugh at him.

 

[Indeependent]

I think you're probably right about Constantine. He was a believer in the already existing teachings of Christ but played a great role in furthering of those teachings. I don't know (I'm not a great student of ancient history) but I think the story is that Jesus said something about Peter being the rock on which he would build his church - which ultimately in time became the Catholic Church. My recollection is that part of inducing "pagans" and/or "heathens" into following these teachings was to incorporate or "weave" some of their gods into those teachings. With time came those who had differences with some of the beliefs held by the Holy Roman Church and broke away to form their own groups - Martin Luther, the Lutheran Church - John Knox, the Presbyterian Church, etc. It's still going on today - man's image of little bits of this or that which is taken as some literal translation of whatever.

I know there's some kind of snake handling church in the next county up from me - and I don't know what they believe in this snake handling stuff, but what I do know is that I'm not deliberately stepping foot in any place that has rattlesnakes running amok all over the place. If they're happy ... I'm happy for them ... have at it.

I think the bottom line is if someone wants to believe in this Creator God for whatever reason - peace, hope of a better tomorrow or a better place than the one we're in - then leave them the hell alone. If someone wants to completely deny the existence of any kind of Creator - fine. Religion (or the lack thereof) is a personal matter to each individual.

I'm fascinated with the time when Greeks who believed in Zeus were first told the story of Jesus and they bought it hook line and sinker.

You know how you can tell we've evolved as a species, at least I hope? I don't think we will ever fall for another Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Mary or Moses story ever again. No one today could tell us he spoke with god. We would all laugh at him.

The Greeks didn't buy into it; the Romans did, but it took over 200 years and a barbarian called Constantine to force it on them.

 

[Meriweather]

The Greeks didn't buy into it; the Romans did, but it took over 200 years and a barbarian called Constantine to force it on them.

Constantine didn't force any religion on anybody. He stopped persecution of Christians; he outlawed Jews stoning Jews who became Christian. He permitted pagan religions to continue as usual. Under Constantine we see more freedom of religion than a State religion. It was after Constantine (380) that Theodosius made Christianity the State religion.

 

[Indeependent]

The Greeks didn't buy into it; the Romans did, but it took over 200 years and a barbarian called Constantine to force it on them.

Constantine didn't force any religion on anybody. He stopped persecution of Christians; he outlawed Jews stoning Jews who became Christian. He permitted pagan religions to continue as usual. Under Constantine we see more freedom of religion than a State religion. It was after Constantine (380) that Theodosius made Christianity the State religion.

You know why he was called, ", The Great.".
Because if you didn't, he had you executed.
He needed to unify various factions behind him.

 

[Blackrook]

Jesus said that there really is only one Commandment:

Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[Blackrook]

How can one disagree with this teaching?

 

[HenryBHough]

I'd find those stories so much more believable had Mel Brooks written The Bible. OK, so it was one of his off days when he wrote The Koran.....

 

[Granny]

One Old Testament passage I find very believable is the following:

To Every Thing There is a Season - Ecclesiastes 3. 1-8

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Although I had left the Catholic Church, my Dad was Catholic and I found a priest who listened to my circumstances and agreed he would perform my Dad's funeral service. I truly felt it was the right thing to do for my Dad when he passed. A part of the service included this passage.

 

[Blackrook]

The Bible is what you make of it.

For Christians, the Bible is a source of wisdom and comfort.

For atheists, the Bible is a subject of ridicule and scorn.

There will come a time when all of us know who is right and who is wrong.

 

[ChrisL]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

 

[sealybobo]

The Bible is what you make of it.

For Christians, the Bible is a source of wisdom and comfort.

For atheists, the Bible is a subject of ridicule and scorn.

There will come a time when all of us know who is right and who is wrong.

But none of us will get to say I told you so.

I can say when you die you go to a place where 500 virgins serve you. All you have to do is worship my god.

I guess there will come a time when we all find out if I'm right.

 

[sealybobo]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

It doesn't seem like anyone takes the bible literally. No virgin birth for example. That's what I thought.

Seems like humans are getting smarter. Could another Joseph Smith ever start another religion? I don't think so.

Think about how far we've come since 1800 when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. Could anyone today pull that off?

Then again we do have Scientology.

 

[sealybobo]

The Bible is what you make of it.

For Christians, the Bible is a source of wisdom and comfort.

For atheists, the Bible is a subject of ridicule and scorn.

There will come a time when all of us know who is right and who is wrong.

The Koran and book of Mormons are no different. I hope you were lucky enough to be born into the right religion.

 

[ChrisL]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

It doesn't seem like anyone takes the bible literally. No virgin birth for example. That's what I thought.

Seems like humans are getting smarter. Could another Joseph Smith ever start another religion? I don't think so.

Think about how far we've come since 1800 when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. Could anyone today pull that off?

Then again we do have Scientology.

I wonder why celebrities are attracted to Scientology. There have been numerous celebrities who were members of that "religion" I think. Weird.

 

[Granny]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

It doesn't seem like anyone takes the bible literally. No virgin birth for example. That's what I thought.

Seems like humans are getting smarter. Could another Joseph Smith ever start another religion? I don't think so.

Think about how far we've come since 1800 when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. Could anyone today pull that off?

Then again we do have Scientology.

I wonder why celebrities are attracted to Scientology. There have been numerous celebrities who were members of that "religion" I think. Weird.

Probably the same reason most people get involved in cults ... looking for something missing in their life that they can't quite put their finger on. Having survived a little stint in a cult I can tell you that these people have the answer to anything and everything ... or so they weave it so well into your mindset you actually begin to believe it and the more you believe, the more of your own self you lose. I was lucky - I quit believing but still had long way to go before I saw my way out and I took it and never looked back. It's a hellish existence ... no life ... just a robot like existence.

 

[ChrisL]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

It doesn't seem like anyone takes the bible literally. No virgin birth for example. That's what I thought.

Seems like humans are getting smarter. Could another Joseph Smith ever start another religion? I don't think so.

Think about how far we've come since 1800 when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. Could anyone today pull that off?

Then again we do have Scientology.

I wonder why celebrities are attracted to Scientology. There have been numerous celebrities who were members of that "religion" I think. Weird.

Probably the same reason most people get involved in cults ... looking for something missing in their life that they can't quite put their finger on. Having survived a little stint in a cult I can tell you that these people have the answer to anything and everything ... or so they weave it so well into your mindset you actually begin to believe it and the more you believe, the more of your own self you lose. I was lucky - I quit believing but still had long way to go before I saw my way out and I took it and never looked back. It's a hellish existence ... no life ... just a robot like existence.

Well, I'm glad to hear you got out! Definitely makes sense that they feel something is missing. Also, some are probably just young, impressionable and idealistic and think these types of "churches" represent how they feel.

 

[sealybobo]

Or Mohammad or Joseph Smith stories? I'm trying to figure out how many of us take all the stories literally like talking snakes or virgin births. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians but don't take the bible stories literally.

If you're Jewish, do you really believe Moses talked to God or were you just born Jewish and you believe in God but admit you don't take the old testament literally.

Im not even going to ask Mormons or Muslims. Of course they believe their books are literal.

IMO?? Parables.

It doesn't seem like anyone takes the bible literally. No virgin birth for example. That's what I thought.

Seems like humans are getting smarter. Could another Joseph Smith ever start another religion? I don't think so.

Think about how far we've come since 1800 when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. Could anyone today pull that off?

Then again we do have Scientology.

I wonder why celebrities are attracted to Scientology. There have been numerous celebrities who were members of that "religion" I think. Weird.

Probably the same reason most people get involved in cults ... looking for something missing in their life that they can't quite put their finger on. Having survived a little stint in a cult I can tell you that these people have the answer to anything and everything ... or so they weave it so well into your mindset you actually begin to believe it and the more you believe, the more of your own self you lose. I was lucky - I quit believing but still had long way to go before I saw my way out and I took it and never looked back. It's a hellish existence ... no life ... just a robot like existence.

Well, I'm glad to hear you got out! Definitely makes sense that they feel something is missing. Also, some are probably just young, impressionable and idealistic and think these types of "churches" represent how they feel.

Yea but when you hear scientologists schtick its just stupid. Something about spacemen? But what religion is based in fact? So I guess they are no different than all the rest.

Im going to look more into Scientology. I don't know what about it attracts people.