Zone1 Do the moral and ethical standards of a politician matter to you or is it just important that they are your team ?

[MarathonMike]

Since I'm not a fan of your average politician, I've always looked at them with skepticism at best (party affiliation irrelevant). Our system incentivizes them to dance between honesty and dishonesty, so you just hope for the best overall. I'd guess it's the same in England.

It wasn't until the elections of 2016, though, that I had to add "at least some discernable degree of honesty, maturity & decency" to my personal list of requirements for President. I guess I never even thought of those until Trump won. Now it has to be #1 on my list, because I want to/have to believe that America is better than this.

You voted for a morally and ethically bankrupt Hillary Clinton. Apparently those characteristics weren't important to you until Trump won. Interesting.

 

[Mac1958]

You voted for a morally and ethically bankrupt Hillary Clinton. Apparently those characteristics weren't important to you until Trump won. Interesting.

As bad as she is/was, Trump is far worse.

Perhaps you don't understand degree. One can be even worse than the other. True story.

 

[MarathonMike]

I think its hman nature to look more kindly on someone who holds similar opinions to yourself.
But is there a line that you cannot cross ?
What is that line ?
If biden is convicted of any offences would you still excuse him ? Similar with Trump.

If you do excuse their faults are you not then partly responsible for their actions ?
This is not party specific. All parties do it, everywhere.
Would we get better politicians if we held them to higher standards ?

I look kindly upon politicians who are fighting to save America and I despise politicians working for the destruction of America. Was JFK a morally wonderful man? No. Was he a great President? Yes.

 

[MarathonMike]

As bad as she is/was, Trump is far worse.

Perhaps you don't understand degree. One can be even worse than the other. True story.

I understand "degree" perfectly, apparently you don't. Hillary has decades of well known lying, deceit and corruption in her past. It is not up to me to educate you on her history, do some research.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

But is there a line that you cannot cross ?
What is that line ?

Trying to overturn a fair and lawful election, for starters.

 

[Mac1958]

I understand "degree" perfectly, apparently you don't. Hillary has decades of well known lying, deceit and corruption in her past. It is not up to me to educate you on her history, do some research.

Apparently you missed the "as bad as she is/was" part of my post. She's terrible. He's worse. Far worse. So bad that I've had to vote for Democrats in the last two elections.

That's my opinion. I am entitled to it. You're entitled to yours. Your approval of my opinion is not required.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I think its hman nature to look more kindly on someone who holds similar opinions to yourself.

So? I think it's human nature to look more kindly upon someone who holds out a..

1. ham & cheese sandwich at lunchtime.. with mustard, mayonnaise, and a juicy pickle
2. $100 bill
3. cushy job offer
4. patriotic slogan
5. plan to improve things..

But the devil's in the details. Human nature is generally not a positive force. What we need is better communication and discussion of ideas before deciding upon anything. Democracy should be our guide. Town Halls (instead of pubs and churches) in every neighborhood. If someone clearly holds our ideals and convictions dear.. we support them. Then when a Bernie says thanks for all your hard work and support, but I think I'll stick with this cushy Dem Party job.. Twice.. We tell that Bernie and those Dems to go pound sand.

I hope that answered something

 

[badbob85037]

I think its hman nature to look more kindly on someone who holds similar opinions to yourself.
But is there a line that you cannot cross ?
What is that line ?
If biden is convicted of any offences would you still excuse him ? Similar with Trump.

If you do excuse their faults are you not then partly responsible for their actions ?
This is not party specific. All parties do it, everywhere.
Would we get better politicians if we held them to higher standards ?

If they mattered I would never vote.

 

[Blaster]

You are highly partisan and it affects your judgement.

The pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Of course moral and ethical standards matter in our politicians. Moral and ethical standards also matter in our population!

When voters elected as President the amoral demagogue Donald Trump in 2016 they also voted for a man who encouraged their own worst impulses. Soon simple self respect and respect for others in society, as expressed in language and politics generally went out the window.

Language and ideas and even actions that once would have been almost universally condemned soon became the norm for tens of millions. Political and civic morality plunged yet deeper into a filthy swamp. It has still not resurfaced … and may never fully recover.

 

[Grumblenuts]

You've gotta fight
For your right
To "civic and political morality"!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The moral degeneration of the already ethically super-flexible Republican Party leadership occurred with extraordinary speed after the power of Trump’s cultish base was revealed.

Over 90% of them, afraid of losing their cushy jobs and the power and prestige they were accustomed too, almost immediately fell silent or capitulated to Trump’s demagogy.

This was the main “moral” and “political” crime — a product of their pre-existing lack of integrity and personal cowardice in the face of what they knew was despicable conduct — committed by most RINOs in the Trump era.

 

[initforme]

There are no morally good candidates. The more money they have the less moral they are.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

There are no morally good candidates. The more money they have the less moral they are.

It is hardly that simple. Indeed, you sound like an infantile leftist — though I expect that was not your intention.

Money can change people, sure. Being born into money and being born into poverty or into the working class are entirely different experiences. Such life experiences can leave indelible prejudices. “Pride and Prejudice” and all that. But “morality,” personal integrity, these you can find everywhere, as you can find their opposites.

Money, whether inherited or made legally in this society & this economic system, can insulate a person from many pressures. For example a businessman-turned-politician like Mitt Romney did not suffer the worst insecurities (or temptations) of politics — the fear of losing an election and losing one’s job and one’s whole identity. The same could be said about Michael Bloomberg.

There is little reason to think having less money makes one less vulnerable to corruption, and much reason to think it actually makes most people — including politicians — more vulnerable and less brave when facing moral issues that can ruin one’s whole career.

As much as I hated the politics of Mitt Romney or Liz Cheney, for example, they quickly recognized and showed backbone and decisiveness when they saw their party being drowned in a tidal wave of amoral / immoral political degeneration, demagoguery and lies.

See, for example: Lessons of History and Trying To Avoid the Same Mistakes

 

[Captain Caveman]

I think its hman nature to look more kindly on someone who holds similar opinions to yourself.
But is there a line that you cannot cross ?
What is that line ?
If biden is convicted of any offences would you still excuse him ? Similar with Trump.

If you do excuse their faults are you not then partly responsible for their actions ?
This is not party specific. All parties do it, everywhere.
Would we get better politicians if we held them to higher standards ?

No.