Do Americans need weapons?

[Open Bolt]

Soon it isn't just going to be "the Left".

No chance of that. Only the left wants to violate people's civil liberties for fun.

The rest of America values civil liberties.

 

[Blues Man]

The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact.

Right now the 2A is being leveraged well beyond it's rational original intent. America has the highest gun ownership rate of any developed nation on earth and we have along with it the highest gun homicide rate.

At some point we need to re-equilibrate our "rights" when countless thousands die every year.

The Constitution was NOT written by God in stone. It has, built into it, the ability to change or alter its content.

THAT'S the true power of the Constitution.

You need to learn where murders take place in this country.

When you do you will realize that the reason our murder rate is what it is ( not the highest in the world FYI), is that's what the powers that be want it to be

70% or more of all murders occur within very small areas in our poorest inner city neighborhoods and these murders are young poor male minorities killing other young poor male minorities. And the perpetrators of these murders are by and large people who cannot legally own firearms.

Our murder rates have nothing to do with the second amendment and everything to do with the fact that we do not enforce the gun laws we have on the books

 

[Blues Man]

But to have a debate, you have to get beyond the Rinse, Wash, Repeat statements. So forget the 2A, we all know it's there, it's discussing the topic beyond that. I would say gun nuts won't/don't because they know their argument is weak to piss poor.

We don;t need a debate with you foreigners.

Why the fuck do you care if Americans own guns?

The laws of this country are our concern not yours

 

[Blues Man]

I'm not interested in other countries. Your argument is that a major reason for the 2nd Amendment was having firearms for self defence, yet you now claim the bulk of gun incidents are down to suicides. Now you stated that thicko, you blew your own balls off with that. I've told you all along, the self defence argument was just a guise, and you've confirmed it. So if you want to call anyone dumb, then start with yourself, dummy.

So allowing everyone to freely obtain a gun without infringing their rights for self defence is an utter load of bollox, and you've just confirmed it.

Yes you are. You are a brit royal ass kisser and you're whining about the laws in the US.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm not interested in other countries. Your argument is that a major reason for the 2nd Amendment was having firearms for self defence, yet you now claim the bulk of gun incidents are down to suicides. Now you stated that thicko, you blew your own balls off with that. I've told you all along, the self defence argument was just a guise, and you've confirmed it. So if you want to call anyone dumb, then start with yourself, dummy.

So allowing everyone to freely obtain a gun without infringing their rights for self defence is an utter load of bollox, and you've just confirmed it.

Not everyone can legally own a gun

You don;t know shit about the laws in this country

 

[Blues Man]

Then you missed the point of my post. I will try to make it clearer for you.

This is a probabilistic game. If you increase the number of legal guns owned by perfectly good people you increase the probability that there will be guns that are stolen or otherwise make it into the hands of the bad people.

That's just basic statistics. Thefts happen, even good people sell guns to people who may not be as good.


In reality no one is going to ask you to give up all your guns (except maybe Jesus, but you'd have to take that up with Him), but you may be asked to either have limited guns or have more oversight of you guns for the general public safety.

Cookies are good, but you can't make your entire diet cookies. Guns have a value but you can't flood your population with guns and expect the outcome to be great.

So because some people will break the law then we should remove the rights of people who donm;t break the law.

Yeah that makes perfect sense.

How about we enforce the gun laws we have on the books because we know that when we do gun crimes and murder taters decrease

 

[Blues Man]

You gun fetishists are the loudest whiners imaginable. Worse that toddlers who didn't get as many sprinkles on their ice cream as they wanted.

YOU WON! You have as many guns as you want! You guys have turned America into the leading first world gun ownership capital!

STOP BEING SORE WINNERS!



You guys are the MOST PITIFUL martyrs I've seen. And my mom was a world-class martyr, so I've seen the master at work. You guys STILL WIN THE TITLE.

The need you people have for sexualizing guns is more telling of your own perversity.

A gun is nothing but a tool and it so happens to be the single best tool for self defense.

 

[Flash]

America has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world. So your theory fails at the outset.

Mostly Black on Black crime in the Democrat controlled big city shitholes. Street thugs, gangs and druggies mostly.

If we ship those Blacks to other countries the crime rate in those countries would tremendously go up.

The stupid Liberals blame the crime on the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms but the real blame belongs with the shitheads that pulls the triggers.

I wonder why the Democrats don't really give a crap? Do you know why? They don't enforce the existing laws. Whenever they do make arrest they let the thugs out of jail.

That is kinda stupid, isn't it?

 

[Flash]

Both the recent Sacramento and South Carolina "mass shootings" were Black on Black created gang shootings.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Interestingly racist idea.

So because some people will break the law then we should remove the rights of people who donm;t break the law.

That wasn't my point at all. My point is more legal guns means a higher probability that those legal guns will make it into hands of people who want to do illegal things.

More legal guns means higher probability of gun theft.
More legal guns means higher probability of uncontrolled sales/illegal sales

Let's try another example.

Let's say that doctors started prescribing say, an opiod painkiller, at EXTREMELY HIGH RATES. Suddenly the probability of people getting ahold of this opiod illegally increases because of the chance of theft or illegal sales of the opiod.

Does that make sense?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Both the recent Sacramento and South Carolina "mass shootings" were Black on Black created gang shootings.

Does that matter somehow?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The need you people have for sexualizing guns is more telling of your own perversity.

No, it's just a means of adding insult to the posts.

A gun is nothing but a tool and it so happens to be the single best tool for self defense.

It IS a tool. But when people feel that they need to show off their rights by carrying the tool into a Starbucks while buying a coffee you know to that person it is now a TOY.

And that's the real problem.

 

[Blues Man]

Interestingly racist idea.


That wasn't my point at all. My point is more legal guns means a higher probability that those legal guns will make it into hands of people who want to do illegal things.

More legal guns means higher probability of gun theft.
More legal guns means higher probability of uncontrolled sales/illegal sales

Let's try another example.

Let's say that doctors started prescribing say, an opiod painkiller, at EXTREMELY HIGH RATES. Suddenly the probability of people getting ahold of this opiod illegally increases because of the chance of theft or illegal sales of the opiod.

Does that make sense?

That is a meaningless point.

It's no different than saying the more cars owned by people means a probability of more car thefts.

It's not the drug that is the problem it is the Doctors overprescribing it that is the problem. SO once again we see that the object isn't the issue but it is always the behavior of the people.

 

[Blues Man]

No, it's just a means of adding insult to the posts.



It IS a tool. But when people feel that they need to show off their rights by carrying the tool into a Starbucks while buying a coffee you know to that person it is now a TOY.

And that's the real problem.

No it's a perversion just like the penis comparisons anti gunners like to use.

In some states it is illegal to open carry. In others it's not. If people don't like it they can petition their politicians for change. And besides that no business is obligated to allow entrance to anyone who is open carrying a firearm or even to one who is carrying concealed.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

In some states it is illegal to open carry. In others it's not. If people don't like it they can petition their politicians for change.

Again, you seem to miss the point. The gun is a TOOL but a lot of gun enthusiasts treat them like toys to show off their manhood facade. And that's when we run into trouble. Why America has a "gun problem".

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

That is a meaningless point.

Well, the opiod crisis which is a direct analogue would indicate otherwise.

It's not the drug that is the problem it is the Doctors overprescribing it that is the problem.

It's not the gun that's the problem, it's Americans overprescribing themselves a need for more guns that is the problem.

 

[Blues Man]

Again, you seem to miss the point. The gun is a TOOL but a lot of gun enthusiasts treat them like toys to show off their manhood facade. And that's when we run into trouble. Why America has a "gun problem".

How many is a lot?

You are taking the behavior of an extremely small percentage of gun owners are ascribing it to all.

We do not gave a gun problem. The vast majority of people who own guns legally will never commit a crime never mind murder. People who concealed carry permits are some of the most law abiding people in the country.

 

[Blues Man]

Well, the opiod crisis which is a direct analogue would indicate otherwise.





It's not the gun that's the problem, it's Americans overprescribing themselves a need for more guns that is the problem.

No once again that had nothing to do with the opiate as a drug with legitimate uses and more to do with the behavior of a rather small number of doctors who got away with overprescribing because of lack of oversight or because of hospital administrators who took big money from Pharma companies

And what does it matter if a person has more guns than you think he should? There is no correlation between the number of guns a person legally owns and his likelihood to commit murder or any crime for that matter.

AND gun violence happens to be worse in cities where the number of guns per capita is far lower than in rural areas.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

How many is a lot?

However many it takes to wind up with the highest rate of gun ownership and gun homicides in the developed world. Often by nearly an order of magnitude.

We do not gave a gun problem.

OK, then a gun homicide problem. We have the highest per capita rate of gun homicides of any developed first world nation by a HUGE margin.

The vast majority of people who own guns legally will never commit a crime never mind murder. People who concealed carry permits are some of the most law abiding people in the country.

And we come back around to the original point I made about probabilities.

 

[Blues Man]

However many it takes to wind up with the highest rate of gun ownership and gun homicides in the developed world. Often by nearly an order of magnitude.



OK, then a gun homicide problem. We have the highest per capita rate of gun homicides of any developed first world nation by a HUGE margin.



And we come back around to the original point I made about probabilities.

Once again legal gun ownership has no correlation to the homicide rate.

We already know that at least 70% of all murders take place in very small very well defined areas in our poorest inner cities.
Most murder victims are young minority males killed by other young minority males and these murders are not committed with legally possessed or obtained firearms

The fact is our murder rates would be significantly lower if we actually enforced the gun laws we have on the books but we routinely see that gun charges are the first to be dropped in plea deals and that even ALL instances of illegal gun possession is a federal crime we do not prosecute those crimes in the Federal Courts.

When Richmond VA decided to prosecute gun crimes in federal court and put people away in federal prisons guess what happened.

Crime overall decreased and the murder rate dropped.

So once again it's not the guns that are legally owned that are the problem it is the state and federal government's dereliction of duty in the enforcement of laws that is the problem as well as the fact that no one really cares if young, poor , urban minority males kill each other