Do Americans need weapons?

[Failzero]

8 out of every 10 Mass shootings ( more than 4 victims ) in last 20 years have been carried out by Liberals ( When Liberals attack incidents ) or people of Cover ( Islamists ) or Color ( minorities )

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

8 out of every 10 Mass shootings ( more than 4 victims ) in last 20 years have been carried out by Liberals ( When Liberals attack incidents ) or people of Cover ( Islamists ) or Color ( minorities )

Can you cite the source of this interesting information?

 

[2aguy]

Except when they are.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

med.stanford.edu

AND to open fire in subway cars. Or theaters. Or workplaces. Or schools. Or on the street. Or in a restaurant.

That link, is crap. You have to explain how it is that South Korea and Japan have higher suicide rates than we do......you have to do that....you can't.

I get it....you can't defend your position....so you keep pretending you have a point.....

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

That link, is crap.

I'm surprised you disagree with science.

I get it....you can't defend your position....so you keep pretending you have a point.....

I get it. You ignore the bad stuff because you like your guns.

America has world-leading levels of gun homicides (certainly among developed first world nations). So I guess the gun advocates have won. They've made America "great". And our greatness is off-the-charts gun homicide rates.

Good for us.

 

[2aguy]

Except when they are.

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

med.stanford.edu

AND to open fire in subway cars. Or theaters. Or workplaces. Or schools. Or on the street. Or in a restaurant.

How many mass public shootings?

In 2021?

6

Total killed?

43

We have over 330 million Americans in the United States.....6 committed mass public shootings in 2021....

You have no point...

Deer kill 200 people a year

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year

ladders kill 300 people a year

bathtubs kill 350 people a year

Cars kill over 39,000

You have no point.....

Americans, again, according to the Centers for Disease control, use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives.....the Department of Justice puts that number at 1.5 million....

Sooooo, you have nothing...

 

[2aguy]

I'm surprised you disagree with science.



I get it. You ignore the bad stuff because you like your guns.

America has world-leading levels of gun homicides (certainly among developed first world nations). So I guess the gun advocates have won. They've made America "great". And our greatness is off-the-charts gun homicide rates.

Good for us.

Japan....South Korea....no guns, more suicide deaths...you link is crap....

Science?

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide

There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.
Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).
Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).
Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)
Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.
========

 

[2aguy]

I'm surprised you disagree with science.



I get it. You ignore the bad stuff because you like your guns.

America has world-leading levels of gun homicides (certainly among developed first world nations). So I guess the gun advocates have won. They've made America "great". And our greatness is off-the-charts gun homicide rates.

Good for us.

I don't ignore bad stuff, you don't want to admit that guns are a net good for society.....you could as 15 million Europeans about this...but after they gave up their guns......the governments of Europe allowed them to be murdered by the German socialists.......

Guns save lives every single day, and keep government mass murder from happening.

 

[Open Bolt]

America has world-leading levels of gun homicides (certainly among developed first world nations). So I guess the gun advocates have won. They've made America "great". And our greatness is off-the-charts gun homicide rates.

The victims would be just as dead if they were killed with a different kind of weapon.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I don't ignore bad stuff, you don't want to admit that guns are a net good for society

With the exception of RECORD BREAKING gun homicide rates we enjoy!

.....you could as 15 million Europeans about this...but after they gave up their guns......the governments of Europe allowed them to be murdered by the German socialists.......

"Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919 – laws that in fact required the surrender of all guns to the government. These laws remained in effect until 1928, when the German parliament relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm-licensing scheme. These strict licensing regulations foreshadowed Hitler's rise to power.

"If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms." (SOURCE)

Now, granted he did limit Jews abilities to get guns. So at least part of your argument holds a bit of water.

Guns save lives every single day, and keep government mass murder from happening.

If the government wanted to "murder" you you would be very likely murdered. Unless you think you can hold out with the guns you buy from WalMart against the American military.

(*Oh and make sure to mention Afghanistan! Yeah, those folks were armed with .22 and small handguns...oh, no, sorry, they were armed with leftover Soviet and American military munitions. PLUS they had grown accustomed to living in utter squalor for most of their lives, unlike America's Gravy Seals who couldn't hold out in their defense of democracy against a "stolen election" more than 4 hours before they had to get home for the "Dukes of Hazard" reruns)

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The victims would be just as dead if they were killed with a different kind of weapon.

Well, THOSE THINGS EXIST in every other developed first world nation and yet America still leads!

Go figure.

 

[hadit]

The bottom line remains, no one has to justify owning a gun. It's a right to do so, and there's no need to justify it, so don't play that game with the grabbers, it's irrelevant.

 

[2aguy]

With the exception of RECORD BREAKING gun homicide rates we enjoy!



"Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919 – laws that in fact required the surrender of all guns to the government. These laws remained in effect until 1928, when the German parliament relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm-licensing scheme. These strict licensing regulations foreshadowed Hitler's rise to power.

"If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms." (SOURCE)

Now, granted he did limit Jews abilities to get guns. So at least part of your argument holds a bit of water.




If the government wanted to "murder" you you would be very likely murdered. Unless you think you can hold out with the guns you buy from WalMart against the American military.

(*Oh and make sure to mention Afghanistan! Yeah, those folks were armed with .22 and small handguns...oh, no, sorry, they were armed with leftover Soviet and American military munitions. PLUS they had grown accustomed to living in utter squalor for most of their lives, unlike America's Gravy Seals who couldn't hold out in their defense of democracy against a "stolen election" more than 4 hours before they had to get home for the "Dukes of Hazard" reruns)

You dipshits always use that quote and highlight the exact wrong parts....you idiot....

They registered guns in Germany, and the rest of Europe also banned and confiscated guns..........then, the German socialists used the registration lists to what?

Take guns away from the very people they planned on murdering....you doofus...

The part you should have highlighted...

Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms."

You know, the 6 million Jews they murdered in Germany, then they went on to the other countries that took guns away from their citizens and murdered a grand total of 15 million people....

They also took guns away from the rest of their political enemies...they relaxed gun ownership for their party members, in particular their blm/antifa......er....I mean their brownshirts...you doofus...

You idiots keep using that quote, not understanding that it undermines your very point...

NAZI GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER



German socialists

By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1

And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths

http://[URL='http://hawaii.edu/powe...]http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.CHAP1.HTM

[/URL]

 

[2aguy]

With the exception of RECORD BREAKING gun homicide rates we enjoy!



"Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919 – laws that in fact required the surrender of all guns to the government. These laws remained in effect until 1928, when the German parliament relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm-licensing scheme. These strict licensing regulations foreshadowed Hitler's rise to power.

"If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms." (SOURCE)

Now, granted he did limit Jews abilities to get guns. So at least part of your argument holds a bit of water.




If the government wanted to "murder" you you would be very likely murdered. Unless you think you can hold out with the guns you buy from WalMart against the American military.

(*Oh and make sure to mention Afghanistan! Yeah, those folks were armed with .22 and small handguns...oh, no, sorry, they were armed with leftover Soviet and American military munitions. PLUS they had grown accustomed to living in utter squalor for most of their lives, unlike America's Gravy Seals who couldn't hold out in their defense of democracy against a "stolen election" more than 4 hours before they had to get home for the "Dukes of Hazard" reruns)

Moron........

France, the Nazis, and Gun Control

In 1935, French prime minister Pierre Laval, who later served in the Vichy government during the Nazis' four-year occupation of France, commanded French citizens to surrender their firearms.

Laval and France's ruling parties feared social revolution and banned "war" weapons, instituting strict gun registration policies.

They believed that repressive limits on civilian gun ownership were necessary at a time of Depression-sparked unrest and ongoing conflicts among various political factions. Strict time limits for firearms registration and harsh penalties for noncompliance, including forfeiture, fines, and imprisonment, were put in place. Laval's government did not foresee the impact these restrictive measures would have on a Nazi-conquered France just five years later, when firearms surrender would be required under threat of death.

In Gun Control in Nazi-Occupied France: Tyranny and Resistance, attorney Stephen P. Halbrook explores the impact and efficacy of gun control measures on Wehrmacht-controlled France and how these measures hindered the French Resistance's fight against Nazi tyranny. The author asserts that Laval's 1935 gun control efforts left the French people vulnerable to the Nazi invaders and ill equipped to deal with the Nazi invasion of 1940, plus simplified the Nazi efforts to confiscate firearms and impede a French resistance.



And then they did this....

The Holocaust in France was the persecution, deportation, and annihilation of Jews and Roma between 1940 and 1944 in occupied France, metropolitan Vichy France, and in Vichy-controlled French North Africa, during World War II. The persecution began in 1940, and culminated in deportations of Jews from France to Nazi concentration camps in Nazi Germany and Nazi-occupied Poland. The deportation started in 1942 and lasted until July 1944. Of the 340,000 Jews living in metropolitan/continental France in 1940, more than 75,000 were deported to death camps, where about 72,500 were murdered. The government of Vichy France and the French police organized and implemented the roundups of Jews.[1] Although most deported Jews were killed, the survival rate of the Jewish population in France was up to 75%, which is one of the highest survival rates in Europe.[2][3]

The Holocaust in France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2aguy]

With the exception of RECORD BREAKING gun homicide rates we enjoy!



"Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919 – laws that in fact required the surrender of all guns to the government. These laws remained in effect until 1928, when the German parliament relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm-licensing scheme. These strict licensing regulations foreshadowed Hitler's rise to power.

"If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms." (SOURCE)

Now, granted he did limit Jews abilities to get guns. So at least part of your argument holds a bit of water.




If the government wanted to "murder" you you would be very likely murdered. Unless you think you can hold out with the guns you buy from WalMart against the American military.

(*Oh and make sure to mention Afghanistan! Yeah, those folks were armed with .22 and small handguns...oh, no, sorry, they were armed with leftover Soviet and American military munitions. PLUS they had grown accustomed to living in utter squalor for most of their lives, unlike America's Gravy Seals who couldn't hold out in their defense of democracy against a "stolen election" more than 4 hours before they had to get home for the "Dukes of Hazard" reruns)

And the other side?

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"

The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.

Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.

While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

 

[2aguy]

With the exception of RECORD BREAKING gun homicide rates we enjoy!



"Following Germany's defeat in World War I, the Weimar Republic passed very strict gun control laws in an attempt both to stabilize the country and to comply with the Versailles Treaty of 1919 – laws that in fact required the surrender of all guns to the government. These laws remained in effect until 1928, when the German parliament relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm-licensing scheme. These strict licensing regulations foreshadowed Hitler's rise to power.

"If you read the 1938 Nazi gun laws closely and compare them to earlier 1928 Weimar gun legislation – as a straightforward exercise of statutory interpretation – several conclusions become clear. First, with regard to possession and carrying of firearms, the Nazi regime relaxed the gun laws that were in place in Germany at the time the Nazis seized power. Second, the Nazi gun laws of 1938 specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. Third, approximately eight months after enacting the 1938 Nazi gun laws, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jewish persons from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms." (SOURCE)

Now, granted he did limit Jews abilities to get guns. So at least part of your argument holds a bit of water.




If the government wanted to "murder" you you would be very likely murdered. Unless you think you can hold out with the guns you buy from WalMart against the American military.

(*Oh and make sure to mention Afghanistan! Yeah, those folks were armed with .22 and small handguns...oh, no, sorry, they were armed with leftover Soviet and American military munitions. PLUS they had grown accustomed to living in utter squalor for most of their lives, unlike America's Gravy Seals who couldn't hold out in their defense of democracy against a "stolen election" more than 4 hours before they had to get home for the "Dukes of Hazard" reruns)

Moron......we have over 20 million AR-15 rifles alone, not including all the other rifle types.....so you have no fucking point.....a better educated population........you have no idea what you are talking about...

Had Ukraine been better armed as a populace, Russia wouldn't have been able to invade........18,000 rifles handed out as Russia invaded was too little too late, you doofus...

 

[Captain Caveman]

Wrong......we aren't discussing the culture of suicide or the practice of suicide...you guys always try to hide your failure in those fake issues...

It doesn't matter why they do it.......it only matters that you say guns are the issue....they are not.

Japan has extreme gun control....only cops and criminals have easy access to guns.....

Therefore.....the fact that they succeed in killing themselves more often than Americans do, shows you are wrong about guns and suicide...

Americans use guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, stabbings, and beatings......that people also use them for sucide has no meaning on owning and carrying guns...since again, guns are not the issue in suicide, and those who want to commit suicide will do so with or without a gun....ask the South Koreans, Japanese, Scots, Norwegians and all the other countries with higher suicide rates than we have...

You claim guns and criminals, but you also claim the bulk of gun deaths is suicide, so your argument that you need a gun for self defence against criminals is vastly reduced. Thank you for clarifying the self defence fallacy. The 2 Amendment would appear it increases suicides in the US.

 

[Batcat]

You don't seem to understand that you don't have to kill a person when you use a gun defensively. Most times the mere drawing of a firearm will stop a criminal

Plus keep in mind if medical care arrives quickly for a person shot with a handgun it can often save a life. Handguns are far less deadly than rifles or shotguns. They are more of a defensive weapon, perhaps a last chance defensive weapon. Real life is not like the movies.

A coworker of mine was shot in the femoral artery during a car robbery attempt. A hospital was located just up the street and he received care in time to save his life. He did lose a considerable amount of blood. When he came back to work he showed me the the 9mm bullet that almost cost him his life.

Can an individual live without their Femoral Artery? - Answers

The survivability of a bullet wound to the femoral artery is dependent on many factors. The most important factors are the severity and location of the bleeding and the availability of advanced medical care. The size of the victim, the possibility of infection, and the activity of the victim...

www.answers.com

Stopping Power, From a Doctor's Point of View - The Truth About Guns

I’m not sure what would happen if there were no more internet discussions about “stopping power” as applied to handguns. What would we talk about? I am sure that it would be a better world, and there would be lots more available bandwidth.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[Blues Man]

Plus keep in mind if medical care arrives quickly for a person shot with a handgun it can often save a life. Handguns are far less deadly than rifles or shotguns. They are more of a defensive weapon, perhaps a last chance defensive weapon. Real life is not like the movies.

A coworker of mine was shot in the femoral artery during a car robbery attempt. A hospital was located just up the street and he received care in time to save his life. He did lose a considerable amount of blood. When he came back to work he showed me the the 9mm bullet that almost cost him his life.

Can an individual live without their Femoral Artery? - Answers

The survivability of a bullet wound to the femoral artery is dependent on many factors. The most important factors are the severity and location of the bleeding and the availability of advanced medical care. The size of the victim, the possibility of infection, and the activity of the victim...

www.answers.com

Stopping Power, From a Doctor's Point of View - The Truth About Guns

I’m not sure what would happen if there were no more internet discussions about “stopping power” as applied to handguns. What would we talk about? I am sure that it would be a better world, and there would be lots more available bandwidth.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

The survivability of a GSW is irrelevant to the use of forearms for self defense.

And most murders where guns are involved are committed with handguns.

Homicides by murder weapon in the U.S. 2022 | Statista

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 7,936 homicides in 2022.

www.statista.com

 

[2aguy]

You claim guns and criminals, but you also claim the bulk of gun deaths is suicide, so your argument that you need a gun for self defence against criminals is vastly reduced. Thank you for clarifying the self defence fallacy. The 2 Amendment would appear it increases suicides in the US.

Are you dumb…..your posts reveal the answer……

Japan and Sourh Korea have higher rates of successful suicide you idiot…….guns aren’t the issue. Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings…..according to the centers for disease control…….can you tell which number is bigger?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Moron......we have over 20 million AR-15 rifles alone, not including all the other rifle types.....so you have no fucking point.....a better educated population........you have no idea what you are talking about...

Your posts drip with education.