Zone1 Divorce

[SweetSue92]

Divorce is how most marriages end.

This is true for subsequent marriages, most particularly when you get into third and fourth marriages. It is not true for first marriages. The divorce rate for first marriages is much reduced from the high point in the 80s. Thank God.

 

[presonorek]

A person recognizes that they are a bad or unworthy spouse. Hmmmm. Should they leave for the benefit of the innocent spouse or try to be a better spouse? Is that your question?

That pretty much was me. I was a terrible wife. I cheated constantly, was emotionally abusive and never offered any affection. I really felt sorry for my husband. He deserved to be happy. He wasn't a bad guy. I finally left him. All around, it must have been a nightmare of a marriage because neither of us ever did it again.

I had another life that I needed to lead.

So you want to leave your spouse to go bang some other women but are trying to spin it that woe is me, I can't be a good husband so for her own good, I will leave her.

Be honest. Does that about sum it up?

If so, you should own what you are going to do. Pretty much shipwreck your kids' lives because you want to bang other women. And no, I do not speak from experience. My husband and I have 28 happy years behind us this month. Thank God.

PS This is statistically not a good bet for you.

Indeed, divorce is associated with worse physical and mental health more strongly for men than for women (Robards 2012). These negative health effects are not trivial, men are more likely than women to develop suicidality after a separation (Kolves 2010). Women may actually experience some health benefits from breaking up. For example, when stable heterosexual couples are asked to sleep apart (not sharing the same bed or sleeping space), women’s quality of sleep is improved whereas men’s quality of sleep is reduced (Dittami et al 2007).

Why Breakups Are Actually Tougher on Men

Women initiate more divorces than men and tend to suffer less post-break-up. In addition, men may find it more difficult to seek support after a split.

www.psychologytoday.com

Sounds like a bingo. You are the closest one so far. So is it better to stay?

I haven’t had sex with anybody yet. I have been playing with this idea well over 10 years. When does the thinking stop? And when is action necessitated?

 

[woodwork201]

I won't suggest that there's never cause for a divorce but getting one, especially if there are children involved, should be the last resort.

Try counseling first.

Any two people, if they choose to do it, can be successful and happy in their marriage. If they are committed to each other and the marriage, then they can be happy.

Millions of marriages every year are by arrangement of the parents. Many times the arrangements are made without either party even knowing, having seen, or even heard of the person they will marry until the wedding planning starts. I have a lot of friends in arranged marriages who love their spouses every bit as deeply as those of us who got to choose our spouse. In fact, they have a lesser divorce rate for arranged marriages than those who chose their own spouse.

Just as we have a completely different level and type of love at 10, 20, 30, years of marriage and beyond, those who didn't know or love their spouse before marriage have the same at 10, 20, 30 years of marriage and beyond.

True love is what comes after the vows not from the hot, emotional, passionate, physically driven "love" that gets us to the alter.

Now I might be speaking old-school since my wife and I dated for 18 months but never lived together or had sex until we were married. That whole passion thing before marriage is pretty old-school since so many have lived together, even born children together, before marriage these days.

Even though the path to marriage has changed, I don't believe at all that the commitment to each other and the marriage that is required for success has changed. And I don't believe at all that the love at 30 years is at all like the love at a year or two.

The requirements for a successful and happy marriage, I think, remain the same: selflessness, listening, consideration of your partner, taking a real interest in your partner. Also, especially for my wife, patience and tolerance.

 

[woodwork201]

I have only sex with one person other than my spouse and that was one time and years before I met her. I’d really like to have sex with another person or two or three or four or five. She says she has zero desire to have sex with anybody else. I feel this somehow makes me terrible.

I keep hearing from everybody that cheating is bad but isn’t it also bad to divorce just to obtain sexual freedom? It’s a hard world to navigate.

Why do I have a desire to have sex with other women? Am I defective?

When your sexual activities, even desires if they rise to it, lead to harm, hurt, or other damage to yourself or others, it is just as bad, perhaps worse, than a drug addiction. Get help.

But, honestly, sexual perversion is very rarely cured. I suggest divorce.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

You have been playing with the idea of having sex with someone other than your spouse for over ten years and haven't done it yet? Is that it? Give it up. You are not the cheating kind and never will be.

There is a great danger to someone who desperately wants out of a relationship yet is guilted into staying. That danger is that you may never get the courage to leave, but you start making the other person's life a living hell so they leave. In the nicest possible way, of course. Nothing you could really put your finger on just a steady and inexorable pressure to force them into making a move.

Life quickly becomes unbearable for everyone.

 

[woodwork201]

I have one other suggestion for saving a marriage. Men, at least once a week, do the dishes.

My wife is handicapped now, after taking care of our children and me. On her better days she's still able and wants to help with dishes or some task or another. I have to say that even just a little bit of help is so much help.

Do the dishes. Don't brag about it, don't negotiate it for something you want, not even for sex, just do the dishes once a week at least. If there's anything I regret as a husband, above all my other shortcomings, it's that I didn't give her that little bit of help. Of all the things I would do over in life, that's in the top 3, perhaps the number 1.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I won't suggest that there's never cause for a divorce but getting one, especially if there are children involved, should be the last resort.

Try counseling first.

Any two people, if they choose to do it, can be successful and happy in their marriage. If they are committed to each other and the marriage, then they can be happy.

Millions of marriages every year are by arrangement of the parents. Many times the arrangements are made without either party even knowing, having seen, or even heard of the person they will marry until the wedding planning starts. I have a lot of friends in arranged marriages who love their spouses every bit as deeply as those of us who got to choose our spouse. In fact, they have a lesser divorce rate for arranged marriages than those who chose their own spouse.

Just as we have a completely different level and type of love at 10, 20, 30, years of marriage and beyond, those who didn't know or love their spouse before marriage have the same at 10, 20, 30 years of marriage and beyond.

True love is what comes after the vows not from the hot, emotional, passionate, physically driven "love" that gets us to the alter.

Now I might be speaking old-school since my wife and I dated for 18 months but never lived together or had sex until we were married. That whole passion thing before marriage is pretty old-school since so many have lived together, even born children together, before marriage these days.

Even though the path to marriage has changed, I don't believe at all that the commitment to each other and the marriage that is required for success has changed. And I don't believe at all that the love at 30 years is at all like the love at a year or two.

The requirements for a successful and happy marriage, I think, remain the same: selflessness, listening, consideration of your partner, taking a real interest in your partner. Also, especially for my wife, patience and tolerance.

I have known several people in arranged marriages. I have been told that they are happy and love each other because there is no choice not to. Another partner is never even considered.

Your most important comment was in advising for commitment to each other and to the marriage. Suppose that commitment isn't there. When you can look the person that you married and say, I feel absolutely nothing. I don't care if you live or die. I no longer care if I live or die. I believe that you can find love and meaning elsewhere.

That marriage is well and truly over. Nothing, no amount of counseling can save it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Sounds like a bingo. You are the closest one so far. So is it better to stay?

I haven’t had sex with anybody yet. I have been playing with this idea well over 10 years. When does the thinking stop? And when is action necessitated?

Action that harms others is never "necessitated". Hear that? Never. Just because you think about it doesn't mean you are obligated to do it.

If you were Christian I would advise you to go straight to God. Tell Him you are *committed* to not do this deed and as for His help to overcome it. God loves to help with these requests, though the overcoming is not perfectly linear and not without struggle, for sure. But I think you've given up on God, sadly.

So my answer is, I don't when or how the thinking stops. Sorry. I only know that if thinking goes to action, you stand a great chance of messing up your kids' lives, your life, and your wife's life. In that order.

PS My kids are young adults now, and a few of their friends have parents who divorced. It's hard on all of them, bar none. Even if the divorce happened when they were older, in college.

PPS Retreating into your own head and obsessing about what you think and want is ill-advised too. I don't read anything about what YOUR WIFE thinks and wants. The wise husband pours into her. What does she need? Is she happy? And then guess what happens as a result? But in dismal marriages, each spouse grabs for what they can get from a limited supply that gets scarcer and scarcer. A bad pattern to fall into.

 

[presonorek]

Action that harms others is never "necessitated". Hear that? Never. Just because you think about it doesn't mean you are obligated to do it.

If you were Christian I would advise you to go straight to God. Tell Him you are *committed* to not do this deed and as for His help to overcome it. God loves to help with these requests, though the overcoming is not perfectly linear and not without struggle, for sure. But I think you've given up on God, sadly.

So my answer is, I don't when or how the thinking stops. Sorry. I only know that if thinking goes to action, you stand a great chance of messing up your kids' lives, your life, and your wife's life. In that order.

PS My kids are young adults now, and a few of their friends have parents who divorced. It's hard on all of them, bar none. Even if the divorce happened when they were older, in college.

PPS Retreating into your own head and obsessing about what you think and want is ill-advised too. I don't read anything about what YOUR WIFE thinks and wants. The wise husband pours into her. What does she need? Is she happy? And then guess what happens as a result? But in dismal marriages, each spouse grabs for what they can get from a limited supply that gets scarcer and scarcer. A bad pattern to fall into.

Whose happiness is most important? The husband’s or the wife’s? It’s hard to get a straight forward on that one. If staying is absolutely necessary, then what happens to the blissfully happy spouse and what happens to the spouse full of bitterness, regret, and misery?

How does each spouse benefit or lose when a horrible spouse stays around? There are honestly people that love their spouse with absolutely zero percent effort whatsoever. It is just like breathing. They didn’t even have to learn it. They get a pat on the back as the saint while the terrible spouse has to be constantly reminded of his/her inferior status as the scummy partner. Is this like a codependent thing? The saintly spouse picks a scummy spouse so that his/her ego can constantly be inflated?

I’ll never figure this out. Honestly, I have been married 20 years. I’m sure I’ll still be married to the same person in 20 more years. Will I have regrets or will I be glad I stayed? I don’t really know that answer until 20 years from now. I’m having a hard time being convinced it will be worth it. What do I’ll she get as a prize? Trust me, I’m not a prize. What will she lose if I stay?

Somebody is going to break this code.

 

[SweetSue92]

Whose happiness is most important? The husband’s or the wife’s? It’s hard to get a straight forward on that one. If staying is absolutely necessary, then what happens to the blissfully happy spouse and what happens to the spouse full of bitterness, regret, and misery?

How does each spouse benefit or lose when a horrible spouse stays around? There are honestly people that love their spouse with absolutely zero percent effort whatsoever. It is just like breathing. They didn’t even have to learn it. They get a pat on the back as the saint while the terrible spouse has to be constantly reminded of his/her inferior status as the scummy partner. Is this like a codependent thing? The saintly spouse picks a scummy spouse so that his/her ego can constantly be inflated?

I’ll never figure this out. Honestly, I have been married 20 years. I’m sure I’ll still be married to the same person in 20 more years. Will I have regrets or will I be glad I stayed? I don’t really know that answer until 20 years from now. I’m having a hard time being convinced it will be worth it. What do I’ll she get as a prize? Trust me, I’m not a prize. What will she lose if I stay?

Somebody is going to break this code.

You're just justifying why you're either going to cheat on her or leave her. It doesn't need nor deserve this many words. You could have just typed, "I'm not man enough to be self-sacrificing, so I'm gonna do what I wanna do." That's all you need.

 

[miketx]

Divorce is how most marriages end.

Guess we're doing it wrong!

 

[boedicca]

Why?

Because it is better to be a good person than a quitter.

 

[boedicca]

That'd what GOD expects, but if one partner doesn't give a damn, nothings gonna change.

We can't change other people, only ourselves. If children are involved, it's better for them to have at least one parent at home that does give a damn.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

We can't change other people, only ourselves. If children are involved, it's better for them to have at least one parent at home that does give a damn.

Exactly. Jesus even addressed this very question. From the beginning it was not so (divorce), BUT BECAUSE OF THE HARDNESS OF YOUR HEARTS.

Real marriage is a VOW before God. But if one partner doesn't take it seriously, there's only so much the other can do.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

When someone feels they are a bad spouse should they leave their spouse? or are there better option?

What are the pros and cons of leaving your spouse? What are bad reasons to leave? What are good reasons to leave? What is the effect if you stay? If you leave?

I know at least one person has been in this situation. What can be expected to happen?

This is a joke right?
Probably 1 in 10,000 people, literally, have the ability to see themselves for who they actually are before age 50.
"We judge ourselves by intent, we judge others by the result of their actions"

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Because it is better to be a good person than a quitter.

So, you think I should,have made him miserable enough to leave me and keep the moral high ground. Interesting.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

You're just justifying why you're either going to cheat on her or leave her. It doesn't need nor deserve this many words. You could have just typed, "I'm not man enough to be self-sacrificing, so I'm gonna do what I wanna do." That's all you need.

This is quite interesting. You would keep a woman locked into a loveless marriage tied to a man that doesn't care about her at all. You would stand in the way of this woman ever finding true commitment. All so a hapless and unhappy man can be self-sacrificing.
That's a big bite.

 

[presonorek]

You're just justifying why you're either going to cheat on her or leave her. It doesn't need nor deserve this many words. You could have just typed, "I'm not man enough to be self-sacrificing, so I'm gonna do what I wanna do." That's all you need.

You are on the right track. I mean you are basically perfectly on target. The only problem is that your analysis dismisses the facts.

I have never left. I have never cheated. So are you saying to continue in the self-sacrifice? I haven’t did what I wanna do. I have been analyzing the pros and cons for years. I have come to the opposite conclusion of what you said.

Just for discussion sake, isn’t it oddly unfair that the spouse who has no desire whatsoever to cheat and does exactly what they want to do is a saint. The one who sacrifices is the devil incarnate. It’s a bit humorous in my opinion. Shouldn’t the bad spouse get some credit?

 

[Anathema]

If you can no longer live up to your contractual marriage obligations, you should leave. Then again I’m not much into the emotional stuff that surrounds many marriages.

 

[presonorek]

Divorce is child abuse. Otherwise, who cares?

This is a very common and extremely convincing argument. My kids are 19 and 17. Can you abuse an adult child just as easy as a minor child?

This is definitely weighed into my decision drastically to hang around. What’s funny is that it’s my wife’s only argument for me to stay. I’m not sure what she’ll change her argument to in the next 3-4 years. I’m probably stuck in this marriage and will probably never cheat, but can’t I whine about it?