Zone1 Divorce

[presonorek]

Nope.
You have bought the society destroying feminist line that women don't need men.
You need to forget that shit and become one.
They need us. 100%.
There is more to being a man, and what we bring to the table, than a paycheck.
And there is more to life than surviving. Can women survive without men, yes, men can survive without women.
But either way, most will never live a fulfilling life without each other.
And, like I said, be a shell of a person trying to fill that void and becoming bitter in trying to convince themselves they are happy.

Statistically married people live longer. There are single people that live long lives though. I believe single and married people both have the vulnerability of living an unfulfilling life. Besides what is the criteria of a fulfilling life versus and unfulfilling life?

Sometimes I am not even sure why I question things. It just seems that questions beget questions and those questions beget more questions.

The rules say you can divorce or you can stay married. I just have to trust society’s wisdom. Why are both options available if one is taboo? Then it is safe to assume neither is taboo or these options would not be allowed. I wish society would have made the decision for me. It would be such an easier process for obtaining the answer

 

[Meriweather]

“Marriage is forever. You said so on our wedding day.” “What about the kids?” “Don’t you want to grow old together and be with me when I die?” So on and so forth.

Wasn't it you who said that you wanted to be needed? While she phrased these needs as questions, to me it sounds like she is enumerating why she needs you.

 

[SweetSue92]

This is quite interesting. You would keep a woman locked into a loveless marriage tied to a man that doesn't care about her at all. You would stand in the way of this woman ever finding true commitment. All so a hapless and unhappy man can be self-sacrificing.
That's a big bite.

Marriage is a vow, a commitment. It is not intended for happiness as its chief function. This is especially true when there are children involved. You should ABSOLUTELY prioritize the children over your personal happiness.

 

[presonorek]

Wasn't it you who said that you wanted to be needed? While she phrased these needs as questions, to me it sounds like she is enumerating why she needs you.

She needs me to feel bad about myself? I suppose that’s possible. It’s actually the best argument I heard and it totally adds up.

 

[presonorek]

Marriage is a vow, a commitment. It is not intended for happiness as its chief function. This is especially true when there are children involved. You should ABSOLUTELY prioritize the children over your personal happiness.

So I made the right decision?

 

[presonorek]

I’ll probably stay. The earliest I could leave would be April 2023 anyways. Rent isn’t cheap anymore. It’s not like I can get a ghetto apartment for $500 a month and wait for things to straighten out.

I just don’t see how leaving could improve my life. I’m sure I’m stuck. Maybe I’ll die soon and it won’t be so bad.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Marriage is a vow, a commitment. It is not intended for happiness as its chief function. This is especially true when there are children involved. You should ABSOLUTELY prioritize the children over your personal happiness.

Have you ever heard the adage "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"?

What does it mean to prioritize children over personal happiness? Is it better for children to see parents locked in bitter fighting on a daily basis? How about children watching a parent completely lose their will to go on joined to someone they care nothing about but lack the courage to leave. Or perhaps consider the family that stays together while each sharpens and weaponizes the children against the other. There's an ideal situation for you. There are worse things than divorce.

 

[SweetSue92]

I’m 43 years old and have never had a conversation with God. I’d have to take your word for what God wants and I choose not to take your word for it. Let’s keep the conversation sane please. There are no magical men that talk to humans. There just isn’t. Even if there are, don’t expect anybody to believe you when they do talk to you. It may sound fair to share your magical experience but you are heavily insulting the person you are telling.

You are in the religion/ethics forum and I remember your history here. So deal with it. If you didn't want religious talk, you could have put this in "health and lifestyle" or "general discussion" or something.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Statistically married people live longer. There are single people that live long lives though. I believe single and married people both have the vulnerability of living an unfulfilling life. Besides what is the criteria of a fulfilling life versus and unfulfilling life?

Sometimes I am not even sure why I question things. It just seems that questions beget questions and those questions beget more questions.

The rules say you can divorce or you can stay married. I just have to trust society’s wisdom. Why are both options available if one is taboo? Then it is safe to assume neither is taboo or these options would not be allowed. I wish society would have made the decision for me. It would be such an easier process for obtaining the answer

Difference in unfulfilled and fulfilled?
When a person stops being selfish.
There is not one person on earth who is selfish and happy. No matter how rich they are.
A great marriage is when the person you are with wants to please you just as much as they want you to please them.
Marriage isn't a contest, it isn't about keeping score. It is about doing everything you can to make the other happy, and that in kind.
That is the only way. And if both don't play that way? Then it is not a good marriage.
When to divorce? - When the anguish of staying with them is greater than the anguish at the thought of leaving them.
I was extremely ready to divorce. But even though our marriage was dead, even after all she did to me... it was not without pain.
If a person can divorce someone and feel no pain - that is one selfish person.
But you really only live once.
And let me tell you fella, after 15 years in a bad marriage and now... after getting out of that marriage and finding a MUCH better person - I cannot possibly put into words how much better life is. Oh my God how much better off I am. I am 57 years old now, and I didn't understand what real love was between two people till I met Bonzi. Had no freaking clue how happy I could be.

 

[Meriweather]

She needs me to feel bad about myself? I suppose that’s possible. It’s actually the best argument I heard and it totally adds up.

Not what I said or even implied. She may be saying she needs your help with the kids; she needs your company.

My spouse was and is a workaholic. I knew this when I married him, and therefore made sure I had hobbies and interests to fill any free time. I also encouraged him to add a hobby or two that would drag him out of the office since the children and I didn't seem to have this power. Is there something new the two of you could do together? For example, if you know your wife loves to dance, why not surprise her by signing the both of you up for square dancing class. Has she always wanted to learn to play chess? Why not teach her and help her practive?

 

[presonorek]

Have you ever heard the adage "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"?

What does it mean to prioritize children over personal happiness? Is it better for children to see parents locked in bitter fighting on a daily basis? How about children watching a parent completely lose their will to go on joined to someone they care nothing about but lack the courage to leave. Or perhaps consider the family that stays together while each sharpens and weaponizes the children against the other. There's an ideal situation for you. There are worse things than divorce.

The mystery of divorce is foreign to me. I never experienced it as a child but my wife did. I think my childhood was at the highest peak of divorce in American history, the only 1980s. (Side note: was it a coincidence that our nation’s president was a divorcee at the time?) I also grew up in a place where the divorce rate was higher than everywhere else. Most kids from broken homes said it was ok. Some said it was horrible. None of them said it was great. To be fair nobody from intact homes said that it was great that their parents were married. It’s hard to glean hard reliable data but I think we all acknowledge that change of any type will negatively impact a child. I’d say moving to another city could be equally devastating to a child.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I’ll probably stay. The earliest I could leave would be April 2023 anyways. Rent isn’t cheap anymore. It’s not like I can get a ghetto apartment for $500 a month and wait for things to straighten out.

I just don’t see how leaving could improve my life. I’m sure I’m stuck. Maybe I’ll die soon and it won’t be so bad.

Maybe SHE will die and leave you free. Meanwhile, as Thoreau pointed out, you will live a life of quiet desperation. What is quiet desperation anyway?
What does quiet desperation mean?

Quiet desperation is acceptance of–and surrendering to–circumstances. Quietly desperate lives are frustrated, passive, and apathetic. They're unfulfilled and unrealized.

There are some people quite satisfied like this. If not happy, they are not unhappy either.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Maybe SHE will die and leave you free. Meanwhile, as Thoreau pointed out, you will live a life of quiet desperation. What is quiet desperation anyway?
What does quiet desperation mean?

Quiet desperation is acceptance of–and surrendering to–circumstances. Quietly desperate lives are frustrated, passive, and apathetic. They're unfulfilled and unrealized.

There are some people quite satisfied like this. If not happy, they are not unhappy either.

Absolutely.
Perfectly said.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Not what I said or even implied. She may be saying she needs your help with the kids; she needs your company.

My spouse was and is a workaholic. I knew this when I married him, and therefore made sure I had hobbies and interests to fill any free time. I also encouraged him to add a hobby or two that would drag him out of the office since the children and I didn't seem to have this power. Is there something new the two of you could do together? For example, if you know your wife loves to dance, why not surprise her by signing the both of you up for square dancing class. Has she always wanted to learn to play chess? Why not teach her and help her practive?

After our divorce, my ex gave up his life of being glued to the TV. He did take up square dancing, photography, vacations, and made friends. I was right to give him this opportunity for his own happiness.

I began to see that his rebellion and rejection of every activity and action was a form of passive aggression. He was quite happy to live a cloistered miserable life if I did it too.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Difference in unfulfilled and fulfilled?
When a person stops being selfish.
There is not one person on earth who is selfish and happy. No matter how rich they are.
A great marriage is when the person you are with wants to please you just as much as they want you to please them.
Marriage isn't a contest, it isn't about keeping score. It is about doing everything you can to make the other happy, and that in kind.
That is the only way. And if both don't play that way? Then it is not a good marriage.
When to divorce? - When the anguish of staying with them is greater than the anguish at the thought of leaving them.
I was extremely ready to divorce. But even though our marriage was dead, even after all she did to me... it was not without pain.
If a person can divorce someone and feel no pain - that is one selfish person.
But you really only live once.
And let me tell you fella, after 15 years in a bad marriage and now... after getting out of that marriage and finding a MUCH better person - I cannot possibly put into words how much better life is. Oh my God how much better off I am. I am 57 years old now, and I didn't understand what real love was between two people till I met Bonzi. Had no freaking clue how happy I could be.

My realization of happiness was my first Christmas alone. No fighting. No sniping. To long sighs of frustration. Just pure, pure, peace. I can't really describe how wonderful it was. Such has to be experienced.

 

[initforme]

Waiting until your late 30s early 40s before getting married is wise. In every aspect.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Waiting until your late 30s early 40s before getting married is wise. In every aspect.

No.
What is wise is teaching and preparing our children to the realities of marriage.
The difficulties, the work as well as the rewards.
We are most definitely not doing that. Not. Even. Close.
We are doing the opposite. In every way.

 

[presonorek]

Not what I said or even implied. She may be saying she needs your help with the kids; she needs your company.

My spouse was and is a workaholic. I knew this when I married him, and therefore made sure I had hobbies and interests to fill any free time. I also encouraged him to add a hobby or two that would drag him out of the office since the children and I didn't seem to have this power. Is there something new the two of you could do together? For example, if you know your wife loves to dance, why not surprise her by signing the both of you up for square dancing class. Has she always wanted to learn to play chess? Why not teach her and help her practive?

I know nothing about her except that she loves me to the moon and back. It’s extremely unfulfilling. She is incapable of happiness.

I could leave. It would make her miserable. I could stay. It would make her miserable but on a much smaller degree. If there is a way to make her happy I should have found it by now. If I can’t then I suck.

 

[SweetSue92]

The mystery of divorce is foreign to me. I never experienced it as a child but my wife did. I think my childhood was at the highest peak of divorce in American history, the only 1980s. (Side note: was it a coincidence that our nation’s president was a divorcee at the time?) I also grew up in a place where the divorce rate was higher than everywhere else. Most kids from broken homes said it was ok. Some said it was horrible. None of them said it was great. To be fair nobody from intact homes said that it was great that their parents were married. It’s hard to glean hard reliable data but I think we all acknowledge that change of any type will negatively impact a child. I’d say moving to another city could be equally devastating to a child.

This is not even a question. Parents from a home where there biological parents are married fare much, much better than children from other situations.

Marriage and Child Well-Being: Research and Policy Perspectives

Over the past decade, the linkages between marriage and child well-being have attracted the attention of researchers and policy makers alike. Children's living arrangements have become increasingly diverse and unstable, which raises important questions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[SweetSue92]

I’ll probably stay. The earliest I could leave would be April 2023 anyways. Rent isn’t cheap anymore. It’s not like I can get a ghetto apartment for $500 a month and wait for things to straighten out.

I just don’t see how leaving could improve my life. I’m sure I’m stuck. Maybe I’ll die soon and it won’t be so bad.

So. Your wife works and you rely on her income to support you? Is that about right?