Discipline

[Jarlaxle]

Have you asked her if she believes all students deserve an education?

Some are incapable of it.

Spare the Rod, and the Child Thinks He's God

School thugs (homo erectus species) only pay attention to physical force.

You should never be permitted to be within aile of a child.

I was a midshipman 1979-1984, thank you. Now, I am just a retiree with a lot of varied experience. But I do appreciate the compliment!

Nobody could be that incapable of understanding.

You ever hit a 300-pound offensive lineman with a paddle? Tasers don't even work half the time!

Then it might be time to use buckshot.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Wth is wrong with you? If you were very familiar with the program, you would know it is calculated by test scores within education systems. In 2022, PISA was administered in 81 countries and education systems, including 37 member countries of the OECD
With an average score of 472, our children test below average. We need to do what Singapore schools do, and then some.

You said ranked, not score.

I quote:

"We are 465th place in academia globally."

I told you immediately that was not possible.

Now, please go away! You have received an F on this assignment.

 

[BothWings]

You Can't Get Improvement by Listening to Those Who Accept the Fundamental Faults in This Defective System

What if the principal made you spend all your time with the kids you had to cut from the team, instead of improving the skills of those who made it on the team? The Educationists' insult to talent explains all their failures.

Another analogy is that you don't send the best golfers to a special school for athletes. The parasites who get rich off humiliating talent want to make them social rejects.

This isnt about the level of academia in which you teach. This is about social structure, social discipline and social awareness. Anyone in any station of life can be aware of these things or not...if they work with people for a living.

(You still haven't explained your Huck Finn reference, btw. You keep asking if we've read it, but you won't just make your point.)

It doesn't matter the level of education. There are Harvard graduates with Asperger's who haven't got a clue and are stuck in their ivory towers. A football coach or a golf instructor (and don't get me wrong, because I hate football) could have so much more knowledge and expertise in dealing with people then some Goddamn ivy league professor who thinks because he teaches a "higher subject" that he somehow has a better grip on people management. All the Ivy League snob is held to, is a bureaucratic politically correct standard which he must uphold to keep his job. And I'm sure it DOES suck sometimes. But he's made his choice and demonizes the rest....AS INSTRUCTED.

 

[Unkotare]

Some are incapable of it.
...

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[Unkotare]

We don't cut them... if they want they go into a practice team and learn how to get better... they practice with the competitive team but they don't compete... but I get your point...

Another thing that is so great about wrestling. There are wrestle-offs during the week, and whoever wins wrestles varsity at the next meet. Pure merit.

 

[Unkotare]

In grade school, I was sometimes disruptive and time on the cross for me was sitting in the Principal’s office when she made my Dad leave work to get me. I stopped goofing around with my friends immediately thereafter

My dad usually found out about fights I got into at school/practice while having beers with his friends later that afternoon. As long as I wasn't in the wrong, all was well.

 

[Unkotare]

That. is. excuses. not. answers.

Very

Specific

Answers

 

[Unkotare]

In my job I have been hit, bitten, shoved into furniture and had things thrown at me.
...

By small, small children. You should look for a job at a pillow factory.

 

[martybegan]

Very

Specific

Answers

This is you.

 

[Unkotare]

...There are a lot of approaches to a student who is disrupting the learning of the other students. Sometimes it's as simple as redirecting the student's attention and refocusing them on the task at hand. Sometimes I'll take a student out into the hallway and have a personal word with them. Often this brief personal attention is all it takes to help a student realize what they are doing and why it's not appropriate. When you get to know students well personally you can prevent problems ahead of time by deliberately placing students into pair or group work with other students you know they can work with productively. I often invite disruptive students to stop by my classroom after school where I can let them discuss things that might be driving unproductive behavior if they choose to. . I try to keep open communication with the family or caretakers at home to see what we can do together to help a student succeed. We have guidance counselors, social workers, and community representatives to help with this. I have found that encouraging students to get involved with sports, student groups or other activities can sometimes give them an outlet that helps them focus their energy in more productive ways.
.. Immediate issues like fighting, throwing things, or threatening other students require their removal from the room right away. . If a student has to be removed but later is returned, they are always welcomed back with respect and understanding. .

An important approach to the differing capabilities of students in a given class is differentiation. Different versions of a given class activity can be adjusted to be more challenging for some students and a bit simpler for others. Sometimes the use of a struggling student's L1 can help them more successfully engage with class material as needed. This adds a great deal more time to lesson prep, but if it's what a student needs it should be made available. The more you get to know students the more you understand who needs what. It's about the students, not the convenience of the teacher.

^

 

[AZrailwhale]

So what's your solution to kids who continuously disrupt the education of the other students?

Lots of theoretical talk, not a lot of actual methods to fix the problem.

Reform schools. We had a solution a hundred and fifty years ago that worked to get disruptive elements out so real students could learn.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Do you realize you posted this right after I "actually" answered the question?

You made a simple problem complex. If you have a disruptive element, remove it. Your idea is like a mechanic redesigning an entire engine to stop an oil leak instead of just adding a gasket.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If an aircraft mechanic started a thread about aircraft mechanics, I would not jump in pretending I knew better than him about aircraft repair.

Teaching is not aircraft repair. Teaching is a simple process. My wife was as Special Ed teacher and the Army taught me how to teach. The method is "tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them what you told them, test them, repeat as needed." In other words, introduce the material, present the material, review the material and test the material. Your failing is that you feel the need to waste time on "students" who don't want to learn or are incapable of learning at an acceptable level.

 

[Unkotare]

... Teaching is a simple process. ...

 

[AZrailwhale]

That's what happens now.

No it isn't; the disruptive kid is simply put back into the classroom instead of being expelled.

 

[AZrailwhale]

It is; people like you complicate it. My wife worked alongside many "teachers" like you.

The Army taught me to teach in an eight-hour block of instruction, and it worked. Our classes had a ninety five percent success rate of turning out students fully competent in the things we taught them. The difference between your classroom and mine is that you don't demand discipline in your students and I did. If I had a disruptive student, he got informal discipline; usually pushups, if that didn't work, he was expelled from class and sent to a worse place.

 

[Unkotare]

No it isn't...

Yes, it is.

 

[Unkotare]

... you don't demand discipline in your students ...

Yes, I do.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I came across this article on one of the educators feeds I constantly get in my inbox. Bear in mind these are NOT my words or my opinion, though I do agree with some of it to some degree. The author is obviously a drama queen feeling self-righteous. It may come across as "touchy feely" to those with no experience in a highly challenging urban school environment. Again, not my words.



"I’m fed up. Honestly, I’ve had it with the old-school crowd on X preaching the same tired nonsense about “removing disruptive kids” and keeping the “good kids” away from them.

Just this week, I read posts that made me want to throw my coffee across the room:





and






and






This is old-school education thinking at its worst—segregating kids, labeling them as “bad,” and pretending academics can thrive in a vacuum without addressing emotional needs. And I’m done being polite about it.

---

​

Old-School Discipline Hurts Everyone​

Isolating students doesn’t just fail the so-called “disruptive” kids—it fails every child in the classroom.

Here’s why:

1. It destroys belonging.
   When we remove students, we tell them they don’t belong. And when kids don’t feel like they belong, they stop caring. Period. They stop caring about school, about relationships, about themselves. I’ve seen this play out hundreds of times—kids labeled as “behavior problems” eventually wear that label like a badge. And once that happens, good luck getting them to re-engage.
2. It fuels resentment in the entire classroom.
   Students notice when peers are kicked out or consistently separated. It creates an “us vs. them” mentality. The so-called “good kids” begin to believe that anyone who struggles is a problem to get rid of, not a person to understand. That’s not education—that’s social conditioning to dehumanize people who are different.
3. It teaches nothing about empathy or responsibility.
   The whole point of being in a classroom community is to learn how to live in a community. You don’t learn empathy by sitting only with kids who never push your buttons. You don’t learn responsibility by having “the troublemakers” removed. You learn those things by navigating relationships with people who are different from you—who frustrate you, challenge you, and make you grow.
4. It puts academics over humanity.
   I keep seeing these old-school posts saying, “We need to focus on academics.” Let me ask you this: what kid learns well when they feel like they don’t belong? Show me the research that proves anxiety, isolation, and shame are the keys to higher test scores. Spoiler: it doesn’t exist.
5. It creates adults who quit when things get tough.
   If we teach kids that you just “remove” difficult people from your life, we’re setting them up for failure in the real world. Life doesn’t work that way. In jobs, relationships, and communities, you can’t just exile people who annoy you. Schools are supposed to prepare kids for life, not teach them to avoid it.

---

​

I Used to Be One of Those Teachers​

I get it—I really do. I used to be one of those teachers who thought removing “problem kids” was the answer. Early in my career, I believed that getting rid of disruptions would make my class run smoothly.

And yes, for a day or two, it was quiet. But you know what happened next? Those same kids came back angrier, more frustrated, and more determined to push back. And the rest of the class?

They learned that if you mess up enough, you just get kicked out. No growth. No learning. Just punishment.

It took me years to realize that the real work isn’t in removing students; it’s in creating a classroom culture that makes removal unnecessary in the first place."

I’m Done Watching Teachers Give Up on Kids

Fed up with teachers giving up on kids? Discover why removing “disruptive” students fails everyone—and how building classroom community changes everything.

www.10publications.com

Except teacher's are not trained to help kids with emotional problems. That takes a post-graduate degree and years of training. Nor would it be appropriate to do therapy with a kid in a classroom setting.

I understand your central point, but the question is how do you get help for emotionally disturbed kids out of the classroom, and who pays for it?

And btw....I have a 4 year undergrad degree in psychology, a graduate degree in the same. I had to do a one year intership and a three year residency to get licensed. To help kids with behavioral problems takes professionals with the right credentials and experience. Untrained amateurs more often than not make things worse.

And finally, I do not have an education degree as you do. I would never assume I have the knowledge base or education to do what you do. That's why you get the education and training, to do the job properly.

 

[Unkotare]

... If I had a disruptive student, he got informal discipline; usually pushups, if that didn't work, he was expelled from class and sent to a worse place.

That "worse place" is where I taught for years. My students receive discipline. Stop shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about.